Outer Limits 4x4 Board

just after some views on both jacmac and maxi drive lockers and axles, which is best and why?(your opinion)

Be nice everyone!

JacMac. Only one line into the diff. Only 1 drill hole into the diff. Better actuator than the ARB.

Maxi. Mal is just unreal to deal with, total quality in that man! Jeff from JacMac is like talking to the cranky crusty old fart in the park thats maggot on cask wine. I like the Maxi axles and CV's.... prob not much in it between the JM and Maxi, but Mals a good fella that backs his products. The CV's with rings are pretty cool. I'm not sure if JM does CV's

I'm running ARB lockers and Maxi axles and CV's

I'd take a different route:

Toy is the best route, JM does Toy - that's it

Slunnie pretty much sums it up.

Also, Maxi-Drive axles are AMS6418/HY-TUFF, which is one of the best steels available for axles. JM axles are EN25, which very good, but not quite as good as HY-TUFF.

I am very happy with my Maxi-Drive Salisbury locker and axles.

yeah i did some reading in previous forums and it sounds like maxi drive is the go, i have also spoken to andrew at rangie spares and he swears by there product. So thanks for your opinions and for being nice especially you BIG STEVE. I was only after some advice from other rover fans.

I'll back maxi-drive lockers and axles any day of the week.

The rear unit on my 83 must be as a guess about 15 years old, been transfered over to 3 diffrent Rangies (got it off one of my previous Rangies I own, was on it when I bought that particular Rangie )It's now a bit long in the tooth and takes a bit of time for the locking dog to engage, it still performs the task without any major issues.

Front one is about 8 months old (after 7 years I FINALLY got a front one ) and now I can break CV's, but haven't yet

JacMac gear is good gear though, has a very solid rep amongst the Rover fraternity.

Trav

ISUZUROVER wrote:Slunnie pretty much sums it up.

Also, Maxi-Drive axles are AMS6418/HY-TUFF, which is one of the best steels available for axles. JM axles are EN25, which very good, but not quite as good as HY-TUFF.

I am very happy with my Maxi-Drive Salisbury locker and axles.

Ive seen 2 Maxi drive rear axles twisted at the spline where the locking dog runs. Am yet to see a JacMac axle twist. We run them in the Lockless and im about to run 35Spline versions in the Back of my Buggy. I beleive HY-TUFF is a good product but im not convinced its better than EN25 in this application.

RUFF wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:Slunnie pretty much sums it up.

Also, Maxi-Drive axles are AMS6418/HY-TUFF, which is one of the best steels available for axles. JM axles are EN25, which very good, but not quite as good as HY-TUFF.

I am very happy with my Maxi-Drive Salisbury locker and axles.

Ive seen 2 Maxi drive rear axles twisted at the spline where the locking dog runs. Am yet to see a JacMac axle twist. We run them in the Lockless and im about to run 35Spline versions in the Back of my Buggy. I beleive HY-TUFF is a good product but im not convinced its better than EN25 in this application.

Don't forget the 1.24 to 1.31 difference and the 24s to 30s difference...that all adds up eventually...I know that Isuzurover had a writeup that MD is better at the end, but I can tell you that my right foot, the 36" IROKs and my axles can say otherwise

DiscoDino wrote:

RUFF wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:Slunnie pretty much sums it up.

Also, Maxi-Drive axles are AMS6418/HY-TUFF, which is one of the best steels available for axles. JM axles are EN25, which very good, but not quite as good as HY-TUFF.

I am very happy with my Maxi-Drive Salisbury locker and axles.

Ive seen 2 Maxi drive rear axles twisted at the spline where the locking dog runs. Am yet to see a JacMac axle twist. We run them in the Lockless and im about to run 35Spline versions in the Back of my Buggy. I beleive HY-TUFF is a good product but im not convinced its better than EN25 in this application.

Don't forget the 1.24 to 1.31 difference and the 24s to 30s difference...that all adds up eventually...I know that Isuzurover had a writeup that MD is better at the end, but I can tell you that my right foot, the 36" IROKs and my axles can say otherwise

He also beleives that 30spline longs are going to be stronger than stock D60 Shafts and Uni's I agrea a one off test on new 30splines they will be stronger but not in the long run.

We also have rangies with rangie diffs running JacMac Axles with no failures.

RUFF wrote: Ive seen 2 Maxi drive rear axles twisted at the spline where the locking dog runs. Am yet to see a JacMac axle twist. We run them in the Lockless and im about to run 35Spline versions in the Back of my Buggy. I beleive HY-TUFF is a good product but im not convinced its better than EN25 in this application.

Interesting info Tony, maybe JM's heat treater is better at getting the best out of the metal. On paper HYTUFF has the potential to be a lot stronger than EN25.

Have you broken any JM axles with the toy 27 spline (if you have any?)?

I will probably eventually convert my rear sals to 35 spline JM and a JM or ARB locker, since it is too hard to run 35 spline axles with a JM style locker.

RUFF wrote: He also beleives that 30spline longs are going to be stronger than stock D60 Shafts and Uni's I agrea a one off test on new 30splines they will be stronger but not in the long run.

Sam had some good points on the 35 spline D60 stuff only ever breaking at full noise, while 30 spline stuff gets fatigued and then breaks at low load or reverse. I think he (and you) are probably right, that long term the 35 spline stuff will probably be stronger.

But I think they will be pretty close - and as yet there is no conclusive proof either way. The toy guys with longfields seem to be breaking everything but the longfields and 4340 axles - hubs, R&P's, etc...

ISUZUROVER wrote:

RUFF wrote: Ive seen 2 Maxi drive rear axles twisted at the spline where the locking dog runs. Am yet to see a JacMac axle twist. We run them in the Lockless and im about to run 35Spline versions in the Back of my Buggy. I beleive HY-TUFF is a good product but im not convinced its better than EN25 in this application.

Interesting info Tony, maybe JM's heat treater is better at getting the best out of the metal. On paper HYTUFF has the potential to be a lot stronger than EN25.

Have you broken any JM axles with the toy 27 spline (if you have any?)?

Have not Broke a JM axle at all. On paper lots of stuff looks great.

RUFF wrote:
Have not Broke a JM axle at all.

Do any of your rigs run JM axles with the toy 27 spline? Lockless??

The "paper" specs for steels are based on a lot of real world testing.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

RUFF wrote:
Have not Broke a JM axle at all.

Do any of your rigs run JM axles with the toy 27 spline? Lockless??

The "paper" specs for steels are based on a lot of real world testing.

Yes the Lockless runs them and Chucks Rangerover runs a Hilux Hemisphere inside the rangie centre. Still has the 24? spline(what ever the stock outers are) outers on it.

My real world testing says otherwise.

I have a twisted Maxi Axle at work if you would like to inspect it when you return to Aus.

I also have some twisted 4340 axles

RUFF wrote: Yes the Lockless runs them and Chucks Rangerover runs a Hilux Hemisphere inside the rangie centre. Still has the 24? spline(what ever the stock outers are) outers on it.

My real world testing says otherwise.

I have a twisted Maxi Axle at work if you would like to inspect it when you return to Aus.

I also have some twisted 4340 axles

Thanks for the info - may just go with JM axles for my front end now if they are better (since they are also cheaper). Would be interested in seeing the maxi axle - what was it in?

Whatever happened to the front Sals/D60 that you guys sterted building? If you are interested in building it up and throwing a longfield in one side and 35 spline uni in the other side and then testing it to see what breaks I am happy to lend you a longfield to do whatever you want with. One of my longfields is already in OZ.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

RUFF wrote: Yes the Lockless runs them and Chucks Rangerover runs a Hilux Hemisphere inside the rangie centre. Still has the 24? spline(what ever the stock outers are) outers on it.

My real world testing says otherwise.

I have a twisted Maxi Axle at work if you would like to inspect it when you return to Aus.

I also have some twisted 4340 axles

Thanks for the info - may just go with JM axles for my front end now if they are better (since they are also cheaper). Would be interested in seeing the maxi axle - what was it in?

Whatever happened to the front Sals/D60 that you guys sterted building? If you are interested in building it up and throwing a longfield in one side and 35 spline uni in the other side and then testing it to see what breaks I am happy to lend you a longfield to do whatever you want with. One of my longfields is already in OZ.

Im not saying the Maxi Axles are weaker. We havent used the Maxi axles in our set ups. But the set ups we have used we have not had a single JM failure. Some people beleive what they read on Paper others go by what they have experianced. I am very sceptical about what product manufactures say about their own products.

I dont need to test the 30 spline against the 60 Gear. I know which one will fail first on the trail. When your 30 spline longs fail(remember there have been failures and i beleive more than you know about) where are you going to go next? When my Stock 60 axle fails i will by Yukon or Superior shafts and CTMs and not think about it again.

We have not got around to building the Front D60 yet as we havent realy needed the strength. But my rear D60 is half complete at the moment. My rear Hilux set up is way beyond what we are now driving. I am commonly twisting both rear axles at every 2 day event and doing one rear 4.1 Toyota C&P per event also.

And that Maxi axle i could be wrong but i think it came out of Ralphs Landy.

The reason I picked the longfields was cost. The longs cost me $240USD and 2 Axles will cost me $600-800 (lockers cost about the same whatever you are running). The Series III 4.7:1 sals centre cost nothing.

I doubt I could find a stock front D60 with 35 spline axles in OZ for that.

For my purposes I think it will hold up fine. From what I have heard Beebee is running the 30 spline longs now and if he can't break them I doubt I ever can.

Thats true. I doubt you will break them. But im not convinced they wont wear out.

The D60 gear as long as they are maintained are as strong the day they do break as they were the day they were instaled.

RUFF wrote:Thats true. I doubt you will break them. But im not convinced they wont wear out.

The D60 gear as long as they are maintained are as strong the day they do break as they were the day they were instaled.

I'm not convinced they won't wear out either, but if I keep getting work trips to the US when I am back in OZ, $250US every 1-2 years is OK for me.

Jac mac or maxi either is good.

JM have larger locking ring.

JM is self contained IE: no external cyl.

Maxi vacume opoerated.

JM air operated.

Both have top axles.

I will run JM

Michael.

this is all to confusing, to many options (toy, maxi, jacmac) all i want is to put the right diff and axles in, i'm not racing it just wanna have fun and not break stuff. i've got alot of low down torque and those rr diffs look small. will be running 35s aswell, also i need to change the diff ratios! toys look like a good idea but trying to avoid one off custom stuff, trying to keep it off the shelf just for replacement reasons.

6.5 rangie wrote:this is all to confusing, to many options (toy, maxi, jacmac) all i want is to put the right diff and axles in, i'm not racing it just wanna have fun and not break stuff. i've got alot of low down torque and those rr diffs look small. will be running 35s aswell, also i need to change the diff ratios! toys look like a good idea but trying to avoid one off custom stuff, trying to keep it off the shelf just for replacement reasons.

Ok unless you fit Toyota centres your allways going to have a weak crown and pinion. No matter how you go about beefing up the Rangie gear your still left with this weak C&P.

In my opinion without converting the complete housings then the Toy Conversion is the best option. You may spend a little more if you dont have contacts but it is a better conversion in the long run.

i seem to think it would be cost about the same to do the toys as iot would maxi's, considering the cost of maxi lockers and axles, then 4.1 cw&p front an rear (about $5k so far) then theres cv's aswell. toys about $3k lockers and s/hand diffs, axles f&r $1.2k, i don't know what else is needed for the conversion and i'm just guessing the price as i have know idea what it costs, but forget labour as i can do most of it myself and have some handy mates. so does anyone have a more accurate costing of either conversion?

just wondering if we are compareing jm and maxi's of the same root dia and also the potential of the steel is one thing and how its heat treated is another(like the org aeu2522's that are very hard= good road mileage, but not so good offroad mileage)

i know its about what you can put in the diff and if jm makes a bigger axle thats stronger and goes in, cool. but mabe they are designed with slightly different outcomes in mind

serg

6.5 rangie wrote:this is all to confusing, to many options (toy, maxi, jacmac) all i want is to put the right diff and axles in, i'm not racing it just wanna have fun and not break stuff. i've got alot of low down torque and those rr diffs look small. will be running 35s aswell, also i need to change the diff ratios! toys look like a good idea but trying to avoid one off custom stuff, trying to keep it off the shelf just for replacement reasons.

If you want to have the parts even more "off the shelf", you can have JM do the Toy lockers with 24 spline sides and run regular Rover axles (which you'll eventually break) or upgrades from Maxi or JM with their associated off the shelf parts. Not sure how this compares to a regular Toy 30 spline, but you'd be flogging the ass out of it to break the axles still.

Slunnie wrote: If you want to have the parts even more "off the shelf", you can have JM do the Toy lockers with 24 spline sides and run regular Rover axles (which you'll eventually break) or upgrades from Maxi or JM with their associated off the shelf parts. Not sure how this compares to a regular Toy 30 spline, but you'd be flogging the ass out of it to break the axles still.

I would have to agrea with this.

If its a Budget you want to work towards then this would be a great idea.

The JM 24spline axles seam to take a hiding. Now the Cvs will still be a weak link but this is a great start to a budget set up for someone who is starting from a set of stock unlocked rangie axles.

Pair of Toy diffs fitted with JM lockers to suit 24spline axles. You could still use stock axles for replacements. This way if you find you are having axle strength problems later on you can buy the 30 spline side gears for the JM lockers and upgrade to the 30 spline Toy Gear.

RUFF, thats a good idea, at least i get the toy centres in and when there are more funds available do the axles, are the stock toy cw&p ok or go aftermarket, if so who and what brand do i go for. i have to keep it fairly tall due to the diesel (around 2000rpm at 100k would be ideal, running 35s/ turbo700) so something around 4.1??? would be good i guess.
looking at the photoes on pirate 4x4, is it necessary to change the back off the diff pumpkin, if so where would you get a replacement, cw&p on toy is smaller so i don't see why you have to. thanks once again.

No you dont have to mod the back of the housing like he did. Was done purely for strength.

Ratios available are here->

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... php?t=5357

Ratios that are easiest to come by are the 4.1, 4.3 HP fronts. The 4.5s are harder to find. These are all factory Toyota gear. If you need aftermarket gears like 4.88 or just replacements, buy through the states.

The rear is easy as is just a stocko lux item. So should be able to find pretty cheap.

You dont need to change the rear of the Pumpkin. And you need a Stock 80series front diff centre(High Pinion) for the front and then a Hilux or hiace 4.1 ratio rear diff centre(Low Pinion). Factory Toyota gears will be fine. i have never run anything other than Factory gears. My front centre holds up fine Have never broken one. The rear is on a fine line.