Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day everyone. I have done a bit of a search on here and couldn't quite understand a few bits, basically I want to know if the 60 series disk setup which i just got will bolt direct to my 75 fj40. With my 60 series stuff i have the entire swivel hubs, but do i need to use that or can i just get away with using the hub and disk rotor with the disk backing plate, without having to remove my entire swivel hubs.

I also have the 60 series master cylinder and booster so that part isn't a problem. Im asking this, basically to save time by not undoing unneccessary stuff.

Thanks in advance

You need the entire swivel assembly as the brake caliper bolts to the swivel housing and the disc brake hub needs the later (longer) stub axle.

Dave

pretty sure you need to change the cv and grind a bit of the inner part of the nuckle for the cv to fit

Thanks guys, i have started removing the old swivel hubs etc, so we'll c how it goes. If i have any questions I am sure i will ask.

Cheers

4sum4 wrote:pretty sure you need to change the cv and grind a bit of the inner part of the nuckle for the cv to fit

Not wanting to hijack your thread but ...

Does this mean that with a bit of grinding I can fit a 60 cv into a 40 housing ??

The C.V's are all the same from 40-60 & lux. I belive the only difference is early 40's with drum brakes May have had a different spline count on the c.v's to the disc models.Other wise the C.V's are the same sizes.

Dont worry about the hijack, i am all ears to mods in this department.

I havn't got my knuckles off yet, so am yet to find out in regards to a 60 s cv. I presume, that if it doesn't i could get away with just using my 40 s cv's in the 60 s swivel until i mod up a 60 version. Thoughts on this

cheers

dave wrote:The C.V's are all the same from 40-60 & lux. I belive the only difference is early 40's with drum brakes May have had a different spline count on the c.v's to the disc models.Other wise the C.V's are the same sizes.

OK, mine is disc front end

But if Look at my CV next to a '60' one the splines on the end of the actual CV are longer on mine than the 60. ?

Thoughts

There are four styles of CV's in the 40 series.

The older one, the 1967 and older uses a very antiquated style of CV where the outer axle has a ball-shaped end with grooves on it and the inner axle has a claw that fits into the grooves. The outer axle has 10 splines.

The next, from 1968-Aug. 1975 uses the modern style birfield joint that mos of us are familiar with. It has a 10 spline outer axle and the CV portion is smaller.

In September 1975, Toyota introduced disc brakes in their SWB 40 and 55 series and started using fine splined CV's. The drum brake models such as the 45 also got the upgraded fine splined CV. These CV's a bit longer (IIRC 3mm.)

In January 1979, when the 4WD Hilux started, the 40 series also got its shorter CV along with some other minor changes. These CV's a a bit larger than the previous CV's in the large inner portion. (Which is why fitting a 1979 and later CV into an older axle requires minor grinding to the housing). These CV's also are shorter than the previous CV as mentioned above. The lock out hubs also became shorter at the same time.

Of course the 70 series got a yet bigger CV in 1990, but that is a whole different story, LOL.

The 60 series has identical dimensions as a 1979-1984 40 series CV. While you can use a 60 CV with an older locking hub, it is impossible to fit the snap ring onto the end. You can use a large washer and an M8 bolt at the end to secure it instead.

Dave

I would have thought 60 series stuff would be longer as 60 housings are wider then 40s?
what part makes up the extra length??

Indeed 60 series housings are wider. The difference is all in the length of the passenger side axle. Even the driver side axle is shared between the 40 and the 60.

Dave

good writeup on the different cv lengths.

although 55 series did not get disk brakes (at least in australia) in 1975... i have a 1978 model 55 with drums. but the cv's are similar/ the same... i'm using fine spline drum brake cv's in my disc brake 40.

dave wrote:The C.V's are all the same from 40-60 & lux. I belive the only difference is early 40's with drum brakes May have had a different spline count on the c.v's to the disc models.Other wise the C.V's are the same sizes.

In saying that I pulled some CVs out of a 40 Series as spares once and they are about 5mm too long... The free-wheeling hub would not fit back over the end...

Maybe milled down it would be right, but you'd also need the groove for the C-Clip too...

Also can anyone tell me how much wider a 60 series housing is compared to 73 series...

I have no centre in the rear of mine now, and one of my swivel hubs are shagged...

It will cost a little to buy two complete diffs, but in that I will then have a wider wheel track, and a spare diff front my current front...

But if it is only for 10mm I am not going to worry...

so after reading this, is it correct to say that my 10 spline cv and axles etc from the original drum brake setup will fit inside the 60 swivel hub and stub axle etc right out to my free wheeling hubs from the original hub (drum setup).

Cheers

Meldge wrote:
In saying that I pulled some CVs out of a 40 Series as spares once and they are about 5mm too long... The free-wheeling hub would not fit back over the end...

Maybe milled down it would be right, but you'd also need the groove for the C-Clip too...

That is what I am saying. The pre 1979 CV's are longer and their locking hubs are longer also.

60 diff housings are IIRC 3 inches wider that a 40 diff which is identical in width to a 73.

Dave

Mudrat wrote:so after reading this, is it correct to say that my 10 spline cv and axles etc from the original drum brake setup will fit inside the 60 swivel hub and stub axle etc right out to my free wheeling hubs from the original hub (drum setup).

Cheers

No, the 10 spline CV are a little shorter than either versions of the 30 spline CV. The splined end would not protrude enough past the wheel hub to attach a FW hub. They are quite weaker anyhow, you are much better off fitting a later model CV in my opinion.

Dave

Some early 40 CV's also had a smaller bell diameter to the 60's by about 5mm. Not sure if this has been mentioned already. The discs will go staight all except the old course spline ones from memory. In this case you need new cv's/axles and f/w hubs. beanz would know more than me though.

turbo4t wrote:Some early 40 CV's also had a smaller bell diameter to the 60's by about 5mm. Not sure if this has been mentioned already. The discs will go staight all except the old course spline ones from memory. In this case you need new cv's/axles and f/w hubs. beanz would know more than me though.

yeah the smaller bell ones are both the course spline ones, and the fine spline ones with a longer stub shaft

turbo4t wrote:Some early 40 CV's also had a smaller bell diameter to the 60's by about 5mm. Not sure if this has been mentioned already. The discs will go staight all except the old course spline ones from memory. In this case you need new cv's/axles and f/w hubs. beanz would know more than me though.

Mick's correct, you need the fine spline CV's and hubs. 1968 and older inner axles are compatible with the newer CV's. Here are several CV's side by side. Too bad I couldn't find the longer fine spline '76-'78 CV for a comparison.



Dave

I am not happy, i have removed all the hubs and knuckles etc and have discovered that the previous owner has obviously replaced the axles and cv's etc with the older 10 spline claw style ones. For this reason i do not know. My 40 is a 75 model so it should have had the birfield style joints etc

Obviously since i am doing my 60 series disc conversion this needs to be changed. Therefore my question is, can i go and get 10 spline inner axles (to suit my spider gears) with a birfield style joint then mate them up to 40/60 series cvs / outer axles, to suite my 60 series stub axles and hubs etc. i.e. can i simply go and get the axles out of a post 69 model and cvs out of a 76-78 40. i am so confused, so sorry for the repeated questions

I just want to know what to go looking for at the wreckers tomorrow.

Thanks in advance

IIRC the ball and claw type of axles uses a brass bushing for oil control instead of the modern rubber and spring seal we are used to. These axles are harder to convert to the birfield type CV, but let me do a search, I think I've read of someone successfully finding a seal to suit.

When Toyota went from a ball and claw joint to a birfield CV in 1968, they also changed the side gears from 10 spline to 30 spline. You can change the spider gears in the diff centre to 30 spline. Somebody who has fitted a locker into his diff should have these gears lying about in the garage.

With all the trouble, IMO it is far easier to fit a complete disc brake axle assembly instead of keeping the old one. I bet that was what the previous owner did to his other landcruiser

Dave

Thanks for that, that was the impression i got. Nothing is ever meant to be easy. So anyway, if i simply went and got the 30 spline spider gears and a complete axle assembly off a disc 40 from say a 76-78 model than it should be ok.

Yep, that'll work. But if I had the choice, I'd go after a 1981 and later as the steering arm bolt pattern is larger and replacement brake rotor will be easier and cheaper to find as it is shared with all 60 and 70 series landcruisers from 1981 until 1999.

Dave

Ok i just got my axles the correct length etc, but now when i went to put them in the axles doesn't fit into the housing. by looking at it, there appears to be a brass bush in the end of the axle housing. Can i simply remove this and the axles should fit, or do i have to get a rubber seal in there instead.

cheers

The brass bush has to be removed and a seal can be fitted. The factory seal will not fit this application. There is an American rubber seal company called Federal Mogul, their products may be also available in Aus. The seal that supposedly works is part number is 724956085880 (info from another forum)

Dave