Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i am thinking of selling the 4DB1 out of my d90, i think its late 80's even 90 (i'll check), only done approx, 90,000 miles - roughly 140-145,000klms.

i 'm thinking of replacing it with a 3.9 rover V8. my thoughts are this conversion will be cheaper then turbocharging or supercharging the diesel, and the engine weight should be dramatically less, good for a shorty. Plus it would be significantly more powerful.

any thoughts on this topic? ideas on what i could sell the isuzu for as it has low k's. it can sometimes take me a few days to check threads so pls be patient with me.

i would say 1500 with all the gear

mad_landie wrote:i would say 1500 with all the gear

You have never priced a 4BD1 have you

I would be thinking more like 3-4K.

Truck wreckers in Melb used to sell them for $3,600.
You couldn't test drive the engine, but they gave you 30 day warranty.
You'll get a better price when a buyer can test drive the engine but you can't give warranty...

You used to see them in just parts all the time (6 months ago.)

Recently they seem to have dissappeared..

Tim

Timbot wrote:Truck wreckers in Melb used to sell them for $3,600.


Tim

thats what i bought my truck for

The price you sell it for would probably pay for the 3.9 V8 conversion with some change left over.

But on the downside, all conversion consist of hidden costs. My ZF auto conversion cost more than I planned initially, but not over the top.

Do you want to run EFi or carbs (the former would be the best option IMO).

Trav

prob efi i think, the last carb 3.5v8 i had was a real drama on steep slopes, etc...although prob not tuned balanced right? but would prefer efi. ruff how much do you think u and sam could do the conversion for???

I think you are mad myself, you could turbo the 4BD1 for well under 2k. But each to their own I guess.

Maggot4x4 wrote:I think you are mad myself, you could turbo the 4BD1 for well under 2k. But each to their own I guess.

Likewise

I'm not a diesel fan myself, rather run a V8 despite it's fuel economy. I think dad's MQ Patrol diesel put me off owning one for life. Even the though of that diesel fume smell today makes me queasy.

Trav

Maggot4x4 wrote:I think you are mad myself, you could turbo the 4BD1 for well under 2k. But each to their own I guess.

I agree, best engine you can put in a landy - go the turbo !

Maggot4x4 wrote:I think you are mad myself, you could turbo the 4BD1 for well under 2k. But each to their own I guess.

I agree. my turbo conversion has cost me less than 1K so far (with intercooler) and the only thing else i need to buy is the oil and water lines for the turbo.

Heres somthing else to try and convince you to stay in the 4bd1 club, i worked out my economy yesterday with 35s and about 400kgs of extras - 11.5 litres per hundred to and from work. try that in any rover v8 powered landy.

as for the price, i would swap it for free (labour included) with a petrol sucking, bore cracking v8 from a disco. if i didnt already have one that is. (or if i could con the missus into driving one "yes dear it would match your army boots")

These conversions are highly sought after, i heard of someone looking for 6 months for a LT 95 bellhousing, then you have the sump and other bits and bobs. even 4 thousand would be a steal with 90,000kms, as it would cost 3k in parts to overhaul one.

Andrew

andrew e wrote:

Maggot4x4 wrote:I think you are mad myself, you could turbo the 4BD1 for well under 2k. But each to their own I guess.

I agree. my turbo conversion has cost me less than 1K so far (with intercooler) and the only thing else i need to buy is the oil and water lines for the turbo.

Heres somthing else to try and convince you to stay in the 4bd1 club, i worked out my economy yesterday with 35s and about 400kgs of extras - 11.5 litres per hundred to and from work. try that in any rover v8 powered landy.

as for the price, i would swap it for free (labour included) with a petrol sucking, bore cracking v8 from a disco. if i didnt already have one that is. (or if i could con the missus into driving one "yes dear it would match your army boots")

These conversions are highly sought after, i heard of someone looking for 6 months for a LT 95 bellhousing, then you have the sump and other bits and bobs. even 4 thousand would be a steal with 90,000kms, as it would cost 3k in parts to overhaul one.

Andrew

Can you get 2? Please

just thought to turbo it with the proper garret turbo and good intercooler, etc would be round $3k, not sure but just from what some other people have told me, i know there are cheaper ways around it, WRX turbo's etc... not sure myself - no mechanical guru by any means.

also i don't use it as a daily driver, only some weekends and for playing, my current fuel consumption with the 35's, 2 1/2" exhaust rest stockers is a solid 12-13L/100klm's, thought for the extra punch a 3.9 would only be a couple of litres more? with the cost of turbocharging the 4BD1 (as much as i love and really prefer diesels) it wouldn't be that feasible if i could do the conversion for next to no money, tinckle with the 3.9 abit for a few extra horses and be done with it!

i've been told as well that i may be able to pick up a 3.9 V8 with auto for around $4K? i don't think the LT77 will last too much longer with any extra power!

Any further thoughts?

def90 wrote:just thought to turbo it with the proper garret turbo and good intercooler, etc would be round $3k, not sure but just from what some other people have told me, i know there are cheaper ways around it, WRX turbo's etc... not sure myself - no mechanical guru by any means.
i've been told as well that i may be able to pick up a 3.9 V8 with auto for around $4K? i don't think the LT77 will last too much longer with any extra power!

Any further thoughts?

its almost a bolt on conversion, when i finish mine i will do a full write up with everything i needed and used.

The only mods that you need to weld are to cut and flip the dump pipe and mate up the exhaust, and weld a nipple in the sump for the oil drain. The turbo bolts on the manifold which bolts on the engine. simple.

if you do decide to turn to the dark side and get a 3.9 then rolled 3.9 discos go through the auctions for less than 3k, perfect donors if you want one, sell off the diffs and wheels and they cost even less. for 4k you may be able to get a 4 litre series 2 stat write off (very hard roll).

for the auctions and pics for donor vehicles
go here http://www.pickles.com.au/search.html
and here http://www.fowles.com.au/search/default ... ry=salvage

is your gearbox, an lt85 or lt77? i didnt know an isuzu came with a lt77

Andrew

andrew e wrote:is your gearbox, an lt85 or lt77? i didnt know an isuzu came with a lt77

Andrew

It didn't, it was either an LT95 (4 Speed) or an LT85 (5 Speed).

Maggot4x4 wrote:

andrew e wrote:is your gearbox, an lt85 or lt77? i didnt know an isuzu came with a lt77

Andrew

It didn't, it was either an LT95 (4 Speed) or an LT85 (5 Speed).

D90s also never had 4BD!s fitted did they ;)

Its allready had an engine conversion.

I can't imagine an LT77 surviving for long behind a 4BD1.

The new 5 and 6 speed boxes for the next N series Isuzu's look like they will be a good box - sadly will be too long before I could contemplate one.

def90 wrote:my current fuel consumption with the 35's, 2 1/2" exhaust rest stockers is a solid 12-13L/100klm's, thought for the extra punch a 3.9 would only be a couple of litres more?

A Couple!!!

try almost double

RUFF wrote:

Maggot4x4 wrote:

andrew e wrote:is your gearbox, an lt85 or lt77? i didnt know an isuzu came with a lt77

Andrew

It didn't, it was either an LT95 (4 Speed) or an LT85 (5 Speed).

D90s also never had 4BD!s fitted did they

Its allready had an engine conversion.

Or been shortened

Maggot4x4 wrote:

RUFF wrote:

Maggot4x4 wrote:

andrew e wrote:is your gearbox, an lt85 or lt77? i didnt know an isuzu came with a lt77

Andrew

It didn't, it was either an LT95 (4 Speed) or an LT85 (5 Speed).

D90s also never had 4BD!s fitted did they

Its allready had an engine conversion.

Or been shortened

I know the Car. Its a D90 and its had an engine conversion. It also has an LT77 fitted.

[/quote]

I know the Car. Its a D90 and its had an engine conversion. It also has an LT77 fitted.[/quote]

i dont know why. Was it done in england? there is a lot of tougher boxes out there - if you were making an adaptor rather than go for the lt85/lt95.

If i was to adapt another manual box i'd use an mq 5 speed. tough and the transfer is in the right place for the rear diff.

is this the only 4bd1 90? i have never heard of any others. i'm waiting for the day someone runs up my ass and knocks 10 or 20 inches out of my wheelbase.

Andrew

Sam,

When I was looking around for an engine for my V8 110 the prices were about 3k privately and closer to 4k at wreckers for a 4BD1. Your adaptor should allow an R380 to bolt behind the 4BD1 - which is what Chuck is using and it was holding up OK last I heard - so that should add some $$$ to the value of the engine.

You know that you really want to keep the 4BD1 though don't you... Modern (e.g. WRX) turbos are much better than the old turbos the 4BD1 originally came with, so you can do the job cheaper and end up with a better setup, than bolting on the 4BD1T bits. And since it is only a weekend offroader, you can probably run 10psi or even more without problems. It will really make the 90 fly.

Sure the V8 would always be lighter and more powerful.

Bush65 wrote:I can't imagine an LT77 surviving for long behind a 4BD1.

The new 5 and 6 speed boxes for the next N series Isuzu's look like they will be a good box - sadly will be too long before I could contemplate one.

John,

Sam's (Strangerover's) business partner originally had a 4BD1T and LT77 in his rangie when he converted it. As I recall it didn't last very long until it stripped the input gears. The R380 that replaced it was holding up fine last I heard. The rangie in question weighs a fair bit, so I imagine the LT77 may last longer in a 90.

thankyou all for input thus far, my 90 was orginally a 200TDI, private import, 2 owners before me had it on a farm and the owner took the radiator out to 'clean it', his wife not knowing drove it to the shop and cooked it (so the 'story' goes)...from here a 4BD1 was installed, 8th month 1990 as far as i can tell from the stamp on it.

ben when are you back from O.S? not that i am very mechanically minded, but i thought something like a WRX turbo wouldn't spool as early as a 'bigger' turbo or a more truck orienatated one? plus if i go a turbo my box definitely won't last more the 12-18months i think? so back to financial matters i thought a V8 conversion maybe with a ZF auto may be the way to go?

if i could provide for a turbo then a new box i would way prefer to stay with the isuzu, so nice to drive offroad after my 300TDI!!!

def90 wrote: ben when are you back from O.S? not that i am very mechanically minded, but i thought something like a WRX turbo wouldn't spool as early as a 'bigger' turbo or a more truck orienatated one? plus if i go a turbo my box definitely won't last more the 12-18months i think? so back to financial matters i thought a V8 conversion maybe with a ZF auto may be the way to go?

if i could provide for a turbo then a new box i would way prefer to stay with the isuzu, so nice to drive offroad after my 300TDI!!!

Hi Sam. It is the other way around, a smaller turbo will spool up much faster than a larger one (or an 80's truck turbo), just that if it is too small it will restrict the top end a bit as it won't be able to flow enough air. There have been a lot of advances with turbos over the years, and the newer ones are generally more responsive and capable of spinning at much higher revs. I can't see any advantages of fitting the original turbo over a (suitably sized) later model turbo, apart from the original turbo being bolt on. On top of that the factory turbos only ran 5psi of boost.

You should be able to do the conversion yourself. Don Kyatt can sell you a new turbo manifold, then you just need to make an adaptor plate for the turbo of your choice, bolt it up and do some plumbing. Then take it to a to a diesel place and get them to set up the pump.

As for the box - when the LT77 dies you should be able to bolt an R380 straight in - if there is a Tdi R380 bellhousing the same length as yours (not sure). Otherwise, there was someone on here (JustinC) who was making adaptor plates to bolt a ZF auto to a 4BD1. But again since you have an adaptor from the 4BD1 to the 4cyl rover bellhosing, you may not need an adaptor to fit the ZF.

Will probably be back in OZ in about a year (looking forward to firing up the landies again) - happy to help you do the mods to yours (if yu haven't done them earlier) as I will be turboing my 4BD1 when I get back.

I've got a D90 project with a 4BD1, in the process of plumbing up the turbo at the moment. I've gone with the original garrett as I already had the set up but I imagine that a after market WRX one or something would go real well.
What sort of engine mounting system dose your D90 have, as that has been a real problem with mounting th Isuzu into my chassis.
If you think you'd settle for a LT-95 to bolt to your Isuzu, Ive got one set up to go behind an Isuzu.......

I have a Landrover 110, a 1986 model with Isuzu 4BD1 donk and LT85 gearbox. The 110 has been in the family since new, however I have owned it for only 1 year. What a fantastic but quirky vehicle they are.

I now do a lot of towing with an off road camper trailer and find the Isuzu lacks a little punch.

What is involved and what are the costs involved in adding a turbo ?

Are there any traps / pitfalls ?

Is this a DIY job or strictly one for the experts.

Thanks

Al

The 4BD1 and the 4BD1T are exactly the same except for:

The 4BD1T has an oil spray to cool the underneath of the pistons, has alfin pistons (so do late 4BD1's) and has a tufftrided crank.

Both have 16:1 compression. The 4BD1T only ran 5psi boost from the factory.

In a land rover the 4BD1 seems to handle turbocharging without problems, provided you keep the fuelling and boost within sensible levels. I know a few people running 10psi boost with an intercooler and that seems fine. It is a good idea to fit an EGT when you fit the turbo.

Was talking to JustinC today, I am buying his ZF adapter

He was saying that his set up, with a big intercooler and 16PSI of boost has a max EGT of 600c, towing a camper on a 30+ deg day up a long hill.

larns do you have any pictures of your 90, i get excited when i hear of others as iam sure there is only a handful getting about and it is interesting to find out what mods people do to theirs?

ben when i showed chuck and sam for the first time i am pretty show that he said that my 4BD1 had something ready for the oil spray that you were talking about? as it is a later model motor? anyway i think by the time i muck around putting money into different areas of the truck it'll probably be around a year until i am ready for the conversion, i would do it t'row if i had the cash, but a yrear at the outside latest!! excuse my ignorance but what is a EGT? and what would you consider a 'suitable turbo' for ma shorty? i thought the factory garrett's came out with 7psi? i think around 10psi would be a suitable poundage for a weekend truck? do you agree?