Outer Limits 4x4 Board

People are always asking what year things changed with Landies and Rangies, so I thought it would be good to have as many as possible in one post.

If people who no more than I could post what they know here, I'm sure everyone would find it helpful.

Things like what year Rangies went to having a viscus centre diff, what year fenders lost the sal's etc.

Cheers,

Ok, i will start it off. Range Rover - first update to the 2dr in 1981, cloth trim, 4 spoke steering wheel, no range rover badge on the sides of the decker panel, stickers on t/gate and bonnet instead of plastic push on letters, others that wil come to me later.

DISCOVERY

89: Series 1
3.5L V8, 200Tdi 2.5L turbo diesel, LT77 5-speed gearbox, ZF 4HP22 Auto, LT230 transfer, 10 spline axles, no sway bars. These have headlight surrounds.

94: Series 1 Update.
3.9L V8, 300Tdi 2.5L turbo diesel. R380 5-speed, ZF 4HP22 Auto, LT230 transfer, 24 spline axles, swaybars, no headlight surrounds. 96+ bigger 235/70-16 tyres

99: Series 2
4.0L V8, TD5 2.5L turbo diesel. R380 5-speed, ZF 4HP22EH Auto, LT230Q transfer with unconnected CDL nut, 24 spline axles, Watts linkage rear suspension replaces A-frame design, Optional ACE swaybars, Optional rear air suspension, Traction control, hill decent control. Longer boot space. 02 CDL nut removed.

04: Series 2 Update
New style headlights to match RR, activated CDL returned.

05: Series 3
All new. 4.4V8, 2.7V6TD, 6 speed automatic, Full independant suspension, optional full air suspension, Terrain responce ETC + rear locker mapping.

More clarifying data:

http://www.fourfold.org/LR_FAQ/FAQ.2.Ident.Disco.html wrote:If it is a 5-door, it is post August 1990
If it is an automatic, it is post August 1992
If the interior is Sonor Blue is was built from 1989 to March 1994
If the interior is not Sonor Blue, is was built after August 1990
If it is a 5-door and has side rubbing strips (halfway down the door), it was built after August 1991
If it has anti-roll bars (anti-sway), it was built after August 1992
If it doesn't have anti-roll bars (anti-sway), it was built before March 1994 If it has ABS [Anti-lock Brake System], it was built after March 1994
If it has airbags, it was built after March 1994
After March 1994 (1995 models) the dash was redesigned and different side mirrors were used
Alloy wheels were introduced in autumn 1992
If it is a automatic and has a Tdi engine, it was built after August 1993
If it has a high mounted 3rd rear stop light, side marker lamps in front and rear bumper ends, it was built after March 1994.

good description slunnie. Disco's also changed a bit between 95 and 96 their floorpan and front seat bases are different (i wrecked 2 at the same time).

Andrew.

Range Rover: 1989 was a key changeover year.
Early 1989 the Borg-Warner viscous coupling transfer case was introduced, replacing the LT-230.
Late 1989 the 3.9 replaced the 3.5.
Much improved interior which did not change until 1995 when Range Rover "classic" was introduced with the Discovery dash.
The front door hinges were also concealed behind the door skin.

1986 was also a Big Year for Range Rover, Change of front grill, EFI & ZF I believe.

anything for the landie's

OZ Dates were often behind the UK changeover dates

SERIES I
# 1947: First prototype.
# 1948: Announcement of 80" SWB model, 1.6L engine: world debut 30 April 1948, Amsterdam Motor Show. Full-time 4WD with lockable free-wheel to front-drive. Head-lights behind grille, side-lights on bulkhead.
# 1949: Station-wagon model - had a wood and metal "coachbuilt" body. Sales were slow because it was almost double the cost of a standard S1.
# 1949: First Land-Rovers used on the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme.
# 1949: Head-lights "through" grille.
# 1950: Selectable 2WD or 4WD.
# 1951: 2L engine. 80" SW discontinued.
# 1952: Exterior door-handles, new inverted-T radiator grill, side-lights on wings.
# 1953: 107" model introduced; SWB lengthened to 86".
# 1954: SW reintroduced.
# 1955: 10-seater LWB SW introduced (the "Meccano" kit). SW models were the first LWB models with "outboarded" rear springs - the inboard springs like the SWB (under the chassis rails) were found to be no good for the top-heavy station wagon.
# 1956: Wheelbases increased by 2" (88" and 109"), except 107" SW.
# 1957: Optional 2L diesel engine. Fully-floating halfshafts on LWB.

SERIES II
# 1958: (April) S2 introduced. 2.25L petrol engine. Some early cars had the old 2L petrol engine fitted.
# 1959: 109" 10 seater SW introduced.
# 1959: November, 250,000th Land-Rover produced.
# 1961: 2.25L diesel introduced (Model name changed to IIA). Other changes for the IIA were the steering arms changed from top-bottom on the swivel housings.

SERIES IIA
1961: The optional diesel engine was increased in capacity from 2-litres to 2.25-litres, using the same bore and stroke as the petrol engine. (But the diesel engine's crankshaft is much stronger (forged) than the petrol engine's (cast) - so watch out for dodgy reconditioning jobs that don't use the right crank'.). Diesel also had a 5kg heavier flywheel.

1962: A 12-seater LWB station wagon was introduced, as an option to the usual 10-seater. This could be seen as a (UK) tax avoidance measure because 12 seats made it a bus and buses did not carry sales-tax! The rear seat occupants would need to be very good friends.

1962: The IIA Forward Control (FC) Land Rover was introduced. With rover diffs front and rear - narrow track and axle strength problems were the reason for the IIB forward congtrol later.

1965: (Approx') Prototypes of the Military Lightweight were being developed.

1966: An optional 2.6L 6-cylinder petrol engine for the LWB and FC. Improved FC (series IIB - with wider track, ENV (similar to eaton) axles, and 110" wheelbase). 500,000th Land-Rover produced.

1967: New dashboard, single concealed wiper motor - luxury!

1968: Headlamps moved to wings on export models ('69/70 for OZ).

1968: Military Lightweight 88" air-transportable introduced (only sold to minilaty - OZ army not interested).

1969: Stronger Salisbury rear axle on LWB models. There had been a growing number of half-shaft breakages on heavily loaded 109" Land-Rovers, particularly those fitted with the 6-cylinder engine.
Off the top of my head:

SERIES III
1971 October: The series III Land-Rover can be identified by the plastic radiator grille, neater door hinges and simpler (possibly weaker) bonnet hinges. Inside, the dashboard is plastic with a degree of padding. Mechanically, the gearbox has synchromesh on all four forward gears; it is said to be weaker than the SIIA gearbox.
1972: Stronger Salisbury rear axle standard on LWB.

1972: SIII version of the Military Lightweight introduced.

1974: End of Land Rover imports into USA (RR imports started 1987).

1976 June: 1,000,000th Land-Rover produced.

1979: Stage-1 V8 introduced - 1980 in OZ
1982: Stage 1 with 4BD1 ISUZU introduced -OZ only - drivetrain same as V8 except for 0.998:1 high range transfer. ALL 4BD1 models were assembled in OZ from CKD (completely knocked down) kits shipped from the UK - minus engine. All bits for 4BD1 conversion locally made by Leyland/Jaguar Rover Australia.

110
1984 County 110 introduced - no more SWB landies in OZ - since release of the 90 wasn't till 1985.
OZ options were V8 or 4BD1 with LT95. UK and elsewhere had V8/LT95, 2.5P/LT77, 2.5D/LT77.
120" ute also released (OZ only). AFAIK all 120's were diesels, no V8's. Civillian 6x6 released around the same time with 4BD1T (very few sold).

1986 LT85 5 speed replaces LT95 4speed (thanks to a deal with Santana - spanish company making Land Rovers under licence). Diesels had 1.003:1 high range. In UK 2.5 Turbo diesel was released (precursor to Tdi) - suffered cam lubrication problems (cam bearings moved and blocked oil galleries).

1988 - Thanks to inflation and the value of the pound - a 110 county that cost $22K in 1984 now cost $44K - so sales became very slow. 2nd hand rangies actually INCREASED in value over their original new price because of inflation.

1990 - 110 sales cease in OZ

1992 - 110 sales recommence in OZ as Defender 110 is released (initially ute only) - comes with 200Tdi and LT77S (S=strengthened). LR and Santana had discontinued relations so the LT85 was no longer available. The LT77S was not much better than the LT77 and still suffered lubrication problems.

1994 - 300Tdi released

2000? - TD5 released?
Extreme?
2003? Salisbury discontinued - biggest mestake LR made...
200X? 90 came to OZ for the first time (besides personal imports).
2005? - Model range stripped back to 110 and 130 dual cab?

Can anyone fill in the gaps???

Maybe now that there is starting to be some really good tech in this, it should be Sticky?

will move it into the FAQ bible soon.

bit more on the 110 countys and offenders

push button door handles on the 87 mod onwards,
110 countys had larger diameter trailing arms than defenders and rangies

vented discs on the front of all tdi offenders

disc rears on the later 200tdis mid/late 93 i think. Disc rears are also 24 spline (not 10 like the drums).

130 utes and dual cabs landed in oz early 95

around may in 99 td5 update launched - new motor, blinkers, drivers side swivel hub (to suit LHD), plastic fuel tank, funny star shaped heads on bolts holding the body pannels on, different rear Xmember (towbars can be adapted from earlier ones). i also believe the splined caps on the ends of the full floating axles have a longer spline which makes them last longer.

with the td5 the exterme was launched, this had alloys, bullbar, bfg ats, abs, traction control. metalic paint, snorkel, roofrack and spotties were optional.

2003 update, different rear diff changed from a salisbury to one from the P38 (second generation rangie) one piece steel rear door with new style window and spare wheel carrier, front grill section pertruding like the older countys with aircon, different dash center pannel where the radio is, steering wheel changed design.

this is all i can think of now, if i have made any errors PM me rather than post, to keep this thread as short as possible.

Andrew

andrew e wrote:Disc rears are also 24 spline (not 10 like the drums).

I take it you mean that from then they fitted 24 spline front diffs/inner axles?

That was also the same time they fitted narrower stub axles/hubs/bearings, and the outer spline on the inner axle changed from 1.18" 23 spline to 1" 32 spline. So although the inner end of the axles is stronger the outer is weaker.

Disco SII had no CDL at all for Model Year 2002 (7/01 - 6/02). You can find out for sure by the Vin below

Any SII disco with the vin SALLITGM932A............. Does not have a CDL at all

Some P38 stuff:
'95 - P38 introduced - 4.0 Litre SE (Cloth trim, normally) and 4.6 HSE (leather trim), both engines sporting 4 bolt mains.

'99 - ('00?) Switch to clear indicators, and Bosch injection. Auto goes from having a dipstick to a filler plug in auto pan, same as Series II Discos. No external fuel filter (now in tank).


Notes on Discos (perhaps just add to Slunnies?):
Series 2 V8s are Bosch Injection, Not lucas as with earlier models, and also use 4 bolt mains in block. Also vented front discs, solid rears, all with floating calipers (2 piston fronts, single pot rears). Moved from swivels at front to CV joints with a hub, axles have a large nut on the end instead of the axle caps of earlier models.

Aprox '96, 300 TDIs started using sliding injector pump mounts to stop warping the timing case and throwing timing belts (Also applies to defender 300TDI's)

Sure I've got more, just can't think at the moment...

Ash, you'll find that it's 07/01 to 7/03 build date not compliance, no CDL some of the LATE 01 DIIs had it in the TC.

Mine is 10/00 build date but 04/01 compliance.

RangingRover, the DII has an external fuel filter, also TD5 is Bosch too.

The TD5 Disco 2 has an external fuel filter, I don't believe V8 Disco 2's do... although I was talking about P38 Rangies when I mentioned fuel filters....

OK sorry i'll look on the Rave CD tonight and see about the external filter for the V8.

OK the V8 has an internal fuel filter and the TD5 has an external fuel filter strange but thats LandRover.

Baz.

Two model specs, standard and extreme. Extreme, more like the british Defender "county" model spec, electric windows, cd player, colour coded wheel arch flares, colour coded roof, cloth interior, and alloys, ABS. The 90 was the extreme spec. Traction control was after ford ownership.

Approx $10g more than the base model spec, which looked like the 300tdi model.

Of course there was the 130 crew cab and 130/110 utes.

Just bought last years model defender. And dealer said.
110 extreme is not sold no more nor is the 90 or 130. If your willing to wait they can order one, but delays are long. Quote "they are now assembled in South Africa now, not England". Unquote. They only sell the plain base model.

That was what the dealer told me, but hey, thats the dealer.
The 110 Defender now has all the gizmos. Alloys, aircon, cd player, electric window., cloth, ABS and traction control. The colour coded roof and wheel arch flares are no more. And its easy to get it in white![/u]

hows about info for what abvreviations such as p38, 1's 2's (i assume series 1/2)
thanks :)

also differnces between disco's and classics etc and different series if possible to. hehe sorry to ask guys :)


Reason im wanting to know is im looking to replace my current 4x4 and deffinatly want to stick with something with charactor(eg. not patrols/hilux/cruiser), i really want to get away from leaf springs.
The discos and classics seem perfect for me.


My understanding is that the 89 model with centre difflock is the way to go>?
Ive always hated autos(blindly) but after checking em out they really are topshelf/great off road.
heard the 4 speed autos are the strongest/best, deffinatly want the centre diff lock.
i'd be happy with 3.5L but 3.9L is fine, lpg for sure.
really happy with the coil spring suspension.
lots of space and really comfy seats and electric shizzals and AIRCON! etc.

theyre not hugely common which is a big bonus for me, and still have a fair amount of support which is fantastic considering my current 4x4 is a asia rocsta and while its pretty dam hardcore theres no real support for it except genuine replacement parts, and i'd rather something bigger more comfy.

edit:Thanks Loanrangie and everyone else, muchly apreciated :)

Ok, p38 is the designation for the series 2 rangie 95- 2003 ?Series 1 disco 89-99, series 2 disco 99-2004 ish. 89 rangie has a viscous center diff ie no manual diff lock, earlier rangies had lt230 transfer with cemter difflock but only a 3.5 V8, series 1 disco with 3.9 V8 zf auto and lt230 transfer is ideal combo or classic rangie with zf auto / t230 and engine upgrade to 3.9/4.0/4.6 p76 4.4 or other larger V8/ diesel.

fnuckle, glad to see your seeing the light and chossing a Rangie. They are very capable 4wds and very underrated amoung the other brand owners. All Range Rovers are good off road doesnt matter which one you choose. Even if you buy a Rangie dosent have the diff lock evident it will actually have it in the transfer box so you just need to conect them up. I suppose it realy up to your budget, as to what you get. The Classic is very good off road and will do most of what you ask of it. The P38 is actually better off road, than the classic it was refined and desighned to be better off road,its just that most p38 dont go off road(shame cause that what its designed to do). So a p38 in good order with documented history is good investment for off roading as 95% of them have never seen mud.

so what landy / rover come out with a v8 diesel? and what size was it

# 1948 Body colour is "sage green" ,From late 1948 early 1949 changed to deep bronze green Iam told that this was because the British army where buying large quanitys of Land Rovers.
# 1950 head lights moved to infront of grill and fitted with "Cats eye" headlights still with full grill but with round cut outs for them.
#1951 "new" 2 litre simeased bore engine replaced the 1595 cc unit
#1953 along with the wheel base increase 2 new colours were added being Navy blue and Gray oddly the chassis were painted blue for grey body and grey for blue chassis on the LWB models.
#1954 first prototype 107 station built and tested.
#1955 all chassis are now painted satin black on swb and lwb models.
#1957 2 litre engine change now has full flow oil filter and by-pass system and the bores were stagered to help prevent blown head gaskets witch was all to common on the earler 2 liter engines.
#1958 is the last of the series 1 Land rovers however during 1959 they were still selling 107 station wagons along the "new" series 2s


Hope this helps

[quote="Slunnie"]DISCOVERY

89: Series 1
3.5L V8, 200Tdi 2.5L turbo diesel, LT77 5-speed gearbox, ZF 4HP22 Auto, LT230 transfer, 10 spline axles, no sway bars. These have headlight surrounds.

94: Series 1 Update.
3.9L V8, 300Tdi 2.5L turbo diesel. R380 5-speed, ZF 4HP22 Auto, LT230 transfer, 24 spline axles, swaybars, no headlight surrounds. 96+ bigger 235/70-16 tyres

99: Series 2
4.0L V8, TD5 2.5L turbo diesel. R380 5-speed, ZF 4HP22EH Auto, LT230Q transfer with unconnected CDL nut, 24 spline axles, Watts linkage rear suspension replaces A-frame design, Optional ACE swaybars, Optional rear air suspension, Traction control, hill decent control. Longer boot space. 02 CDL nut removed.

04: Series 2 Update
New style headlights to match RR, activated CDL returned.

05: Series 3
All new. 4.4V8, 2.7V6TD, 6 speed automatic, Full independant suspension, optional full air suspension, Terrain responce ETC + rear locker mapping.

More clarifying data:
[quote="http://www.fourfold.org/LR_FAQ/FAQ.2.Ident.Disco.html"]If it is a 5-door, it is post August 1990
If it is an automatic, it is post August 1992
If the interior is Sonor Blue is was built from 1989 to March 1994
If the interior is not Sonor Blue, is was built after August 1990
If it is a 5-door and has side rubbing strips (halfway down the door), it was built after August 1991
If it has anti-roll bars (anti-sway), it was built after August 1992
If it doesn't have anti-roll bars (anti-sway), it was built before March 1994 If it has ABS [Anti-lock Brake System], it was built after March 1994
If it has airbags, it was built after March 1994
After March 1994 (1995 models) the dash was redesigned and different side mirrors were used
Alloy wheels were introduced in autumn 1992
If it is a automatic and has a Tdi engine, it was built after August 1993
If it has a high mounted 3rd rear stop light, side marker lamps in front and rear bumper ends, it was built after March 1994. [/quote][/quote]

In late 93, the Series 1 Disco came out with the 3.9V8 (fan belts) and sway bars - most of the rest of the car was the same.

The 3.9 v8 in the Series 1 Disco Update had a sepentine belt.

The Series 1 Disco update was being built earlier than March 1994 - generally from Dec 93 but was not available for sale in Aust until April 1994. Cars were on the road for the media from about Jan 94 - I saw one in Sydney Feb 94.

So updates with ABS and airbags may have been built before March 94 as they were options from the start and stardard on the ES. These cars were also available with 235/70-16 tyres if the optional alloys were ordered - standard on the ES.

Gazzz

Maggot4x4 Wrote:
1986 was also a Big Year for Range Rover, Change of front grill, EFI & ZF I believe.

I think the 4 speed ZF auto came out in '85, but yes the efi and grill changes were in '86, another visual change was in '89 when the external bonnet and door hinges became covered over...

just to add to that, my 05/89 rangie:
3.5 EFI
zf auto
viscous coupling
hidden hinges
bonnet has spring device to make it lighter to lift
updated dash??? (radio in centre) but I'm not sure when that came in...

cheers

What year did rangie's get 24 splne driveline(diffs/axles etc) as im looking at an 88 parts car for the zf and lt230 dont know many details but also want the front diff assembly and i dont know if its a 10 or 24. and can the 24's be swapped into an oder housing and can abs swivels be put n earlier housings?

RRV839 wrote:What year did rangie's get 24 splne driveline(diffs/axles etc) as im looking at an 88 parts car for the zf and lt230 dont know many details but also want the front diff assembly and i dont know if its a 10 or 24. and can the 24's be swapped into an oder housing and can abs swivels be put n earlier housings?

88 IS 10 SPLINE. Pretty sure 93 was the intro of 24 spline but i could be wrong.

ISUZUROVER wrote:
1987 120" ute released (OZ only). AFAIK all 120's were diesels, no V8's. Civillian 6x6 released around the same time with 4BD1T (very few sold).

My 120" is 84