Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Does anyone have a link that maps the varrious Californian Air Reseach Board CARB standards to our ADR's in particular to ADR 27B

ie CARB xx is equivlent or tougher than ADR27B ????

AussieCJ7 wrote:Does anyone have a link that maps the varrious Californian Air Reseach Board CARB standards to our ADR's in particular to ADR 27B

ie CARB xx is equivlent or tougher than ADR27B ????

http://www.arb.ca.gov/homepage.htm

Thanks for actually reading the question before posting that link !!!!

doesnt exactly answer the question

Given the ADR's are a subscription service most of us dont have access to the exact details and given I am only interested in one particular ADR not worth the subscription.

need to know exactly what CARB standards is the equilevant or exceeds ADR 27B

AussieCJ7 wrote:Thanks for actually reading the question before posting that link !!!!

doesnt exactly answer the question

Given the ADR's are a subscription service most of us dont have access to the exact details and given I am only interested in one particular ADR not worth the subscription.

need to know exactly what CARB standards is the equilevant or exceeds ADR 27B

I did, thats all i could find, sorry for helping.

Ill see if I can get a copy of ADR27B for you then if it will make you happy. I dont know about the californian one though.

Aussie, Second Edition ADR's dont have alternative standards like the Third Edition.

What are you trying to do? Is it a rego problem?

No 27 in current edition of ADR's.
that I could find.

Bazzle

bazzle wrote:No 27 in current edition of ADR's.
that I could find.

Bazzle

Thats right, 28/00 superseded it.

basically an engine conversion problem.

Any engine conversion I make must meet ADR27B for a 1983 light duty truck. Yet I was looking at using an engine from a californian vehichle, as the engine block stamp is not 1983 or newer I need to prove that it complies to ADR27B. Now I can go ahead and swap it in then go for an emissions test and have an engineer certify it complies. But given the costs envolved it makes sense to understand what the proposed engine is currently compliant to and how it compares to ADR 27B if it is miles off then I wont even bother but if it is close then I can add the apporpiate anti polution gear pass the emissions test and jobs done.

The only other option is straight gas but that adds a 2k to the project and limits the trips i can go on based on range and gas availabiliy not like you can have a jeery can

Gribble its not that I dont appcrieate your help but if you only provide a link and no comment to me it infers it fully answers the question a quick one line about this is all I can find changes the context consierably and means others will not think the question is answered and not bother to answer further

CJ,

ADR 27C is appliccable from 1 jan 1983 but it is only appliccable to passenger cars and passenger car derivitives, not commercial vehicles.

What sort of vehicle are you modding? You can PM me this if you like.

Check the compliance plate, all vehicles built before 1 jan 1989 have the appliccable ADR's listed on it. If its not listed on this then you do not have to comply to this rule provided you are not changing the category (EG changing from a ute to a passenger car).

What has the consultant engineer said to you?
Sometimes they dont understand the rules themselves or have missed a section.

mkpatrol wrote:CJ,

ADR 27C is appliccable from 1 jan 1983 but it is only appliccable to passenger cars and passenger car derivitives, not commercial vehicles.

What sort of vehicle are you modding? You can PM me this if you like.

Check the compliance plate, all vehicles built before 1 jan 1989 have the appliccable ADR's listed on it. If its not listed on this then you do not have to comply to this rule provided you are not changing the category (EG changing from a ute to a passenger car).

What has the consultant engineer said to you?
Sometimes they dont understand the rules themselves or have missed a section.

1983 CJ7 Jeep the complance plate has 27B on it and the polution control sticker states this vehicle complies to 1983 light duty truck polutions ADR27B

Engineer engine with numbers that equate to 83 or newer and all polution gear.

RTA tech inspectors. "new code of practise" no longer needs 83 number block if

1. is from the same family of engine and less than 15% increase in capcity from largest available and all polution gear is installed (wont met this one) this one doesnt need engineers cert

OR

2. The certifing engineer is satisfied it complies to all pollution laws for ADR's stamped on compliance plate . From a polution point of view this can be any engine of any year if you take it to the RTA for an emmisions test that is free AND the engineer then compares these results to the ADR's and certifies that you comply. Of course you have to also comply to other engineering points about capcity, brakes mounts frame strength etc

The problem with option 2 is you need to pass that emissions test you want to be sure the engine will pass.

If you put it on straight gas emisions dont apply

It has got to the point it is too damn hard and I have to just spend much bigger $$ up front to get a newer engine and hopefuly spend less in the long run

ADR appliccability can be funny at times, I would say your vehicle complies to 27B because A) it was an existing model as of the 1 Jan 1983 and B) It was classed as a passenger vehicle at the time but this is irrellevent.

I now what the regs are, I was just trying to gauge where you are at with the engineering process.

For the RTA to do an emissions test is funny, it sounds to me they are only going to do an idle emissions test which is very easy to pass.

ADR 27 is designed to limit gaseus emissions in the form of evaporative and exhaust emissions.

To do a full evaporative emissions test the vehicle needs to be placed in a "shed" (a chamber designed to measure all emissions produced while a vehicle sits). Now this test takes all things into consideration not just the fuel evaporation as fumes come from plastics, rubber, paint etc. I doubt they will ask you to do that. Now if the vehicle alteady complies to 27b then the evaporative emission control should be adequate as it is not altered by the type of engine fitted to a vehicle. If the charcoal cannister and fuel tank have not been altered and are working correctly then that should be easy to prove.

To do a full exhaust emissions test the vehicle needs to driven through a prescribed controlled cycle to measure emissions. This is also a lengthy test which I doubt the RTA would ask you to do.

I would say they would just put a gas analyser up the exhaust pipe to check idle emissions, this is a fairly easy test to pass.

Now to answer your question on the alternative standard for US engines,
ADR27b does not give an alternative standard but his doesnt mean you are completely in the dark. The US regulations, FMVSS, which are similar to the ADR's do not cover emissions, the US EPA do so what you need to do is get on their website & have a look. I doubt the standards for 1983 will be there but you might be suprised. Also US emission laws at the time were streets ahead of the Australian laws but difered from state to state.

Maybe some of the guys from the US can help out here.

you may just have to take the test, but find out from th RTA exactly what they are testing this will help you decide what to do. This information should be freely availaible ( as most information from the governmant is).

I hope this helps, let me know if I can be of any more assistance.

Mkpatrol thanks for your help

wasnt trying to lecture on the rules rather state what my research had found to give a better idea of how far through the process I have got


At least i am looking into to before doing

as to the test the RTA put me through to the test station, they described the test as a cyclic test, they have a set program they follow that emulates idle hard and normal accelerations rapid deacellerations etc The car is put on a chasis dyno and the tester has to keep the engine revs on the moving graph

at least this is the way they explained it to me the test takes about 15 mins plus setup time ?? It is free from the RTA if you can get to one of two test stations both in Sydney. They do not provide a pass or fail status rather they give the results and you need a engineer to certify they pass

If its only a 15 minute test then it may not be too hard to pass. The test in 27b can take a lot longer than that.

Where do they get their specifications from? Are they directly from 27b?
Get a duplicate of the test they run & get a good dyno tuner to set it up for you.

It will only have to pass this test once as the pink slip inspection wont pick it up.

I dare say it would piss it in if your engine was fuel injected.

Its good they do it for free as complete testing to the later ADR37 can cost around 5-10 thousand & only a few companies in OZ do it.

Good luck & keep us informed. I will be happy to help with any ADR questions, If I cannot answer them then I can find out.