Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Do the ashcroft and MD crawler offer the same low range?
I know MD lowers the 1st low by 30% the Ascroft state on their webiste that they do lower it by 80%....I doubt they are comparing apples to apples here
Has anyone purchased the Aschroft transmission

Jay

2 different set ups.

maxi have 30 and 40 % lower.

Ashcroft have the 80% and a bolt reduction unit 1500.00 pounds.

Michael.

HSV Rangie wrote:2 different set ups.

maxi have 30 and 40 % lower.

Ashcroft have the 80% and a bolt reduction unit 1500.00 pounds.

Michael.

I tought ashcroft is running for 650 pounds(1163 $ US) as listed in the site

How much is the MD crawler running for?

Jay wrote:

HSV Rangie wrote:2 different set ups.

maxi have 30 and 40 % lower.

Ashcroft have the 80% and a bolt reduction unit 1500.00 pounds.

Michael.

I tought ashcroft is running for 650 pounds(1163 $ US) as listed in the site

How much is the MD crawler running for?

You need to use the correct terminology to avoid confusion -

Crawler GEARS or lower low range GEARS

or

Crawler BOX

They are 2 completely different things - the gears replace your existing one, the BOX is a bolt in selectable box - most peopleuse the word "crawler" when talking about the crawler box, not the gears.

MD 30% is about AUD$1700 don't know about the 40% - probably the same or a bit more. The advantage of the MD setup is you can use whatever high renge ratio you want.

As you said the ashcroft GEARS are 650GBP, the BOX is 1500GBP. AFAIK you can only run 1.2:1 high range with the Ashcroft setup.

The advantage of a crawler box is you keep your existing low range as well.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

Jay wrote:

HSV Rangie wrote:2 different set ups.

maxi have 30 and 40 % lower.

Ashcroft have the 80% and a bolt reduction unit 1500.00 pounds.

Michael.

I tought ashcroft is running for 650 pounds(1163 $ US) as listed in the site

How much is the MD crawler running for?

You need to use the correct terminology to avoid confusion -

Crawler GEARS or lower low range GEARS

or

Crawler BOX

They are 2 completely different things - the gears replace your existing one, the BOX is a bolt in selectable box - most peopleuse the word "crawler" when talking about the crawler box, not the gears.

MD 30% is about AUD$1700 don't know about the 40% - probably the same or a bit more. The advantage of the MD setup is you can use whatever high renge ratio you want.

As you said the ashcroft GEARS are 650GBP, the BOX is 1500GBP. AFAIK you can only run 1.2:1 high range with the Ashcroft setup.

The advantage of a crawler box is you keep your existing low range as well.

Ben

Ok I am talking about crawler gears
so MD has a crawler gears which lowers your low by 30%

Ashcroft lower it by 80%

I am now running 4.75 gears and 36" tyres and need a lower low range on xtreme rockcrawling.

I am trying to calculate the low range with MD versus Ascroft. i have an LT 230 with 4.75.
I am afraid with Ashcroft gears I will no longer have momentum

Crawler Box is too expensive but might be the best option for future savings
Has anyone fitted a dual transfer case on a Rover

jay

As you may know Ashcroft has designed their low range gearset so that there is no overlap between high and low range i.e. low 5th is slightly lower geared than 1st gear in high. Good in a tractor maybe but I don't like the sounds of it in an off road/trail vehicle.

What I would like to know is if the Ashcroft underdrive (crawler box) can be used in conjunction with MD lower low range gearsets. That would be the ideal setup.

Seamus.

1tonsoup wrote:As you may know Ashcroft has designed their low range gearset so that there is no overlap between high and low range i.e. low 5th is slightly lower geared than 1st gear in high. Good in a tractor maybe but I don't like the sounds of it in an off road/trail vehicle.

What I would like to know is if the Ashcroft underdrive (crawler box) can be used in conjunction with MD lower low range gearsets. That would be the ideal setup.

Seamus.

If the 80% Ashcroft is too low, why would you go lower? An underdrive plus MD30% is about 350% lower than standard!

If Standard is say 40:1
then MD 30% is 52:1
Ashcroft 80% is 72:1
Ashcroft ud is 108:1
UD+MD30% is 140:1

Regards
Max P

Maxtd5def wrote:

1tonsoup wrote:As you may know Ashcroft has designed their low range gearset so that there is no overlap between high and low range i.e. low 5th is slightly lower geared than 1st gear in high. Good in a tractor maybe but I don't like the sounds of it in an off road/trail vehicle.

What I would like to know is if the Ashcroft underdrive (crawler box) can be used in conjunction with MD lower low range gearsets. That would be the ideal setup.

Seamus.

If the 80% Ashcroft is too low, why would you go lower? An underdrive plus MD30% is about 350% lower than standard!

If Standard is say 40:1
then MD 30% is 52:1
Ashcroft 80% is 72:1
Ashcroft ud is 108:1
UD+MD30% is 140:1

Regards
Max P

Aschcroft low gears or even underdrive would be too low for anyone running larger tyres and larger gears(4.11+) I think.
You will at ratios 120:1 where the most you need is the most competitive rockcrawling situations is 90:1 or a 100:1
Ashcroft should have made a 40% and 60% to compete effectively with MD I think

The Maxi-drive low range gear sets are 30% and 49%, not 40%. This 9%does make a difference to the final ratio.

Serg

If the 80% Ashcroft is too low, why would you go lower?

Who said anything about the Ashcroft being too low?

I was pointing out the fact that no overlap exists between high and low range. Thus there is a good chance that on a moderate trail you will find low range is too low and high range is too high. It would be extremely frustrating to find yourself in 5th low, needing another gear, where changing into 1.2:1 high range 1st gear is not low enough when for example, negotiating a steep descent. The end result is constantly having to switch between high and low range.

Seamus.

go the best option.

Stdd LT230 gears

PLUSS crawler box have the best options all around

its only $$$$$

MIchael.

1tonsoup wrote:...What I would like to know is if the Ashcroft underdrive (crawler box) can be used in conjunction with MD lower low range gearsets. That would be the ideal setup.

Seamus.

There is no physical reason why you could not bot an Ashcroft underdrive unit to an LT230 with maxidrive low range gears.

The pto drive (for the underdrive unit) is from teeth on the rear of the input gear. Maxi drive only replace the low range gears, whereas I believe Ashcroft replace all of the gears to obtain 80% more reduction. So the new Ashcroft input gear may not have the pto drive teeth.

Bush65 wrote:
The pto drive (for the underdrive unit) is from teeth on the rear of the input gear

Is this correct? The Underdrive unit drives off and through the PTO gear on the rear of the Input Gear? Those little Teeth that are about 5mm wide?

HSV Rangie wrote:go the best option.

Stdd LT230 gears

PLUSS crawler box have the best options all around

its only $$$$$

MIchael.

Micheal

This is why the Ascroft crawler gear set are an option to consider which is much cheaper.
The underdribe will not bolt on easy on a Rangie or a Disco as there is not place for it.

Looking at the ratios the Aschcroft will give me a 93:1 on my first low which is needed for the xtreme rockcrawling situations.
I can always shift to my high (1 or 2) for easy trailing

With the underdrive you will have some gears overlapping(between you high/low/underdrive low) so you will be paying for gears you migth already have.

My 90 is at Ashcroft as we speak. Td5 (chipped), converted to an auto box and now having an underdrive fitted.

Should be trying it in a couple of weeks.

Tim

RUFF wrote:Is this correct? The Underdrive unit drives off and through the PTO gear on the rear of the Input Gear? Those little Teeth that are about 5mm wide?

No, it replaces the input gear completely. There are pictures around of the unit apart. Input is a through shaft inside the new input gear. Output is back through the input gear.

RUFF wrote:

Bush65 wrote:
The pto drive (for the underdrive unit) is from teeth on the rear of the input gear

Is this correct? The Underdrive unit drives off and through the PTO gear on the rear of the Input Gear? Those little Teeth that are about 5mm wide?

Thanks Tony, my mistake. The crawler box incorporates a new input gear and does not drive through the pto teeth.

However I believe I was correct in saying that the Ashcroft 80% lower reduction gears replace the input gear, so that is the most likely reason for them not being compatible with the underdrive.

Here are pics of maxidrive (top) and ashcroft gears for the LT230.

Maxidrive uses the stock input gear and high range gears. The intermediate gear is modified for a smaller pinion for low range.

Note that the ashcroft input gear (left of bottom pic) is in a different position to stock. It is further to the rear (and still has the pto drive teeth).

Ashcroft intermediate gear (centre of bottom pic) does not have the centre gear like stock the LT230, which meshes with the input gear.

The different position of the input gear is why it wont work with the underdrive box.