Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I started looking at adding a hair dryer to my GU 4.5 motor, but because of the cost I'm weighing up other options. I'm not looking at options with less cost, but because the cost is high I may as well look at transplanting a newer engine.

This idea has now taken me to transplanting a XR6 turbo engine into the GU. No jibes please..it's a Ford and it's only 4.0lt and it's 2 cylinders shy of a Gen3, but there's a plethora of kits available for the XR6T engine and virtually every turbo shop can work on it. It's also an engine already designed for turbo, relatively cheap, readilly available and tuning upgrades is endless.

Has anyone looked into this before? Any thoughts would be appreciated. It's in the ideas stage only, so this may be abandoned for something easier.

Obvious problem are:
- Manifold is on the driver side and no obvious way of bending the exhaust pipes to the other side.
- No off the shelf adapter kits, so this needs custom work to mate it to the Nissan manual gearbox.
- Have to use electric fans for the radiator.
- Engine mounts have to be customised.

MMM, that would sound beautifull running anti lag....................................

Alberto,
Keen to here how you go and what sort of costs. As was talking to Juzza a couple of months back about it being another option.
As you have suggested it dosent take much extra to make these things realy go hard. Should be easy to get 300rwkw out of the patrol.

I woud be interested in either using the Nissan auto or the factory ford auto. Would like good with the ford tiptronic in the patrol.

I dont think running exhuasts down the other side of the car will be a big problem. Should be enough room for a 4" system. And the air intake is still on the same side as your GU.

I did read something today about the factory computer using imputs form pretty much everything for it to work eg most of the dash crap. so might still need to go after market computer. Which would probably get rid of the varible valve timing.

I've been speaking to Juzza as well. To give you an idea of cost, I found an engine at a wrecker for $6,600 that has only clocked 17,000km. This price included everything attached to the engine up to the fly wheel, but I'm sure it wouldn't be much more to add the auto gearbox in the mix. Not a bad price with a factory turbo, engine management system, intercooler, etc. I also rang Ford Spares and they can supply a long motor in a crate for less than $5,500. I can also sell my 4.5 engine to offset the cost.

I have a mate that works for Ford, so I asked him to bring an XR6 Turbo sedan or ute in the shop sometime over the next few weeks so we can take some measurements.

Let me know if you can get more info.

how much was it going to cost to turbo the 4.5

or is it going to need bottom end work?

Morkz,

It's over $10k just for the parts to do it properly with roller bearing Garrett turbo, autronics computer, aftermarket fuel injectors 3" mandrel exhaust, new manifold, aftermarket fuel pump, blow off valve, front air intercooler, coil packs, silicon hoses all round, etc. Then add to that a new clutch.

Also, there's a kit from AVO Turbo at around $5k, but this uses the factory fuel injection system and it's not a roller bearing turbo. It has a smaller intercooler and a basic computer, then add the 3" mandrel exhaust and new clutch. Possibly around $8k for a small boost.

In both cases, we're still using my old engine that has clocked 200,000km which is why I'm looking at the transplant option.

Not an original options but for that price a HSV GenIII sounds like the better conversion to me.

i see what you mean on patrol....

i know someone when they did the job they spent about 10k for turbo setup alone.

i know u can buy 4.5 motor on a crate for around 4k...

have considered doing a GENIII mainly because its done before and u know it works... even though it does kinda sound boring

or you could do what rohan has done and fit the biggest blower he could find and his was putting out around 280kw at the rear wheels which is a shit a load of power that would be about 20k exercise i would say

Whats the lowdown torque like on the Ford Turbo? No point having a motor that makes most of its power high in the rev range.
Low down torque is also a problem with the LS1/Gen3. New LS2 6Litre doesnt have this problem.

Ford 6's are always really torquey motors without the turbo. The turbo is a low pressure unit and wouldnt hurt bottom end much

Even a stock EF onwards 6 would be a great GQ/MQ transplant, but since the later GU's have a very good (although thirsty) donk then you'd have to go with the XR6T to make it worthwhile on the GU.

Investigating this with a friend a while back we got a similar price crated for either the XR6T or the 5.4 Windsor.


The fuel economy of these motors would also be much much better than a GU engine.

There's power curves on the internet if you wanna search. Considering how crap the LS1 is down low it couldnt be any worse.....

Maximum torque from the XR6T is from 2000rpm onwards........450nm.....nice

http://www.ford.com.au/range/falcon/mod ... osedan.asp

OnPatrol,
This site is where I have been finding some info about the xr6t and mods.
http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/
Join this and ask away. Guys there with heaps of info. There is also posts from APS and a couple of the other tuners.
Also has power outputs for each tuners upgrades.

i have had a bit of experience in turbos on patrols and also being a late model wrecker we have wrecked many XR6 turbos. these are very expensive to transplant and only capable of reliably putting 10lbs into them B4 you need to do internals anyway. you would also need to change injectors, ecu, inlet manifold as the BA is fly by wire, and all the adaptors ect. you will hit well over 10 grand putting the BA motor in.
if you spent 10 grand on your GU motor you will get a much nicer package without the headaches of a conversion.

if you look around you could get a gen 3 and a capa 395kw kit for near on 10k.

gen 3 say 4k
marks 1.5 k
sump .5k
thermo fans .2k
std radiator is good
capa kit 3.995k
misc 1k (fuel pump,reg,hoses etc)
exhaust 1k

12.195k

when i did my gen3 they were 5.5k for the motor, and i got a mafless tune for 1.1k which comes with the capa kit. so you save a few$$$
I might s/charge mine if i get bored.

the xr6 would be a sweet motor but unless you wire it yourself it would be a few grand to get it running. also its easy to rout the exhaust just run it under the motor to the passenger side as the drivers has a driveshaft.

cheers bru

How much are 4.8s going for at wreckers?
Would be an easier swap, avoid insurance probs and have better resale

Better resale? Id buy an XR6T powered patrol over a stocker anyday. Im doing a similar thing with mine but older. Since you have a GU going XR6T sounds ideal to me, Im going VL Turbo in my patrol (old MQ). Well kinda of anyway. RB30 Block, RB25 Twin cam head, T04E/66 Turbo, Microtech ECU.
Think the extra litre of the Ford well help with the extra weight of the GU.

And whoever says Gen III....really? Please...

i have had a bit of experience in turbos on patrols and also being a late model wrecker we have wrecked many XR6 turbos. these are very expensive to transplant and only capable of reliably putting 10lbs into them B4 you need to do internals anyway. you would also need to change injectors, ecu, inlet manifold as the BA is fly by wire, and all the adaptors ect. you will hit well over 10 grand putting the BA motor in.
if you spent 10 grand on your GU motor you will get a much nicer package without the headaches of a conversion.

Krmnl, you'll have to PM me a price on a low mileage engine. I won't be driving the Patrol from mid Nov to end of Jan, so that's when we plan to start the transplant. From the replies so far, it all sounds do-able, just costly. Fortunately it's not my headache, I work in IT and I don't have the tools to do the job, so it will be Andrew & Juzza's headache

Resale value? The GU will never be sold, except in parts if/when I destroy it. I bought it new in 99 just below $50k and I'm sure I've spent over $60k on top of that and likely to spend another $15k this year, so I don't think I'll be considering a sale if someone offers only $35k for it. This one is a keeper.

GenIII over XR6T. My personal choice is still the XR6T. I think it's better suited for the type of comp events in Vic.

Sorry, I don't see the point in going from a 4.5 to 4.8?

we sell the motors for $6500. complete.

i would still build and turbo the 4.5 they are a good motor to begin with . they just need a set of GQ conrods and a small snail on the side and 250rwkw is acheivable easy.

r0880 wrote:
And whoever says Gen III....really? Please...

yeah you would have to be a complete wanker to want such a light, rev happy 5.7lt, with everything from hollow cam to roller rockers, 6 bolt mains, coil per cylinder, 300kw (motor) mafless tune. and supercharging it to 365kw with this flat torque would suck http://www.capa.com.au/pics/kits_holden ... no_big.gif

a ford man (owing an au falcon that i am about to turbo see general tech) all along, i knew holden had a few bad ones in the beginning, due to the bore/piston combination needing to be close tolerance, that is now fixed, yes a few used oil and i now totally reget my decision because at the worst possible case i may need to fit a 6lt top end and that would make me cry, because i would hate to be more competitive.

ro880 i think we should all follow in your footsteps and i am sure you have the ability to become a vl god and a doof doof champion. i am looking for a vl turbo now so hopefully you will forgive me for my stupidity, lack of knowledge, poor engine assessement, and most of i am perpetually sorry for spending my money on something that excites me.

how could i ever have read this crap http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html

hopefully one special special day i can be so lucky to be towed out of a deep pothole by your mighty 6.

finally watch top gear to see how badly a leaf sprung corvette does against the jap stuff.

I will go cry myself to sleep


anyway, ONPATROL,

do you know if the xr6 has the same bellhousing bolt pattern (i am 99% sure it does on the 5 speed and early auto ones) in which case it should fit the delco kit which fits 6 cylinder ea's etc into patrols.

also the engine mounts will be a snack as the motors are so similar meaning a small adaper bracket or moving the mount may be needed.

does the moror have a rear deop sump as it needs one to clear the diff.

cheers bru

(sorry about the above i wish some people would grow up about the gen3 thing now that it has been proven to work)

Good work normally so mildly tempered BRU21 ...........

DO NOT KNOCK WHAT YOU NO MINIMAL ABOUT ro880 .......

I know what they are like thank you.

Excessive oil consumption, lack low down torque, low build quality.

American dinosaur pushrod V8....wooohooo

bru21 wrote:ro880 i think we should all follow in your footsteps and i am sure you have the ability to become a vl god and a doof doof champion. i am looking for a vl turbo now so hopefully you will forgive me for my stupidity, lack of knowledge, poor engine assessement, and most of i am perpetually sorry for spending my money on something that excites me.

I never said it wouldnt work, an old Flathead V8 would work.
I dont own a VL by the way. Never have or will.

But I do know how to build things that work.

Easy 450hp out of a twin cam RB30 Turbo, without stressing it.

AJ wrote:How much are 4.8s going for at wreckers?
Would be an easier swap, avoid insurance probs and have better resale

I agree.

a 4.8 puts out 180kw, and supercharging would be fairly easy and give you 240kw plus in a mild boost.

The turbo 6 Fords are an excellent engine, but would be harder to fit than the nissan 4.8. Ford 6T starts to operate from as low as 2000rpm where the Gen 111 is higher up the range. The Ford 5.4 is also 3000rpm and above.

go the 4.8 and you should know that at least the engine will fit the engine bay and the all the accessories should line up. Why go the harder route when Nissan has done all the hard slog for you?

guys, please keep the tech coming without slandering each other too much.

thanks.

why is torque such a big part of this argument in a vehicle running dual transfers, the thing will have that great of a crawl ratio that low down torque isn't needed, and if your thinking about when u are using high range, if your going to be driving around under 2 grand where there is no torque chuck it in low again, the way i see it is the only tme you need the low down torque is on the road, at the end of the day your not driving a drag car that needs big balls to launch, if your in a high speed event and its a bit laggy out of a turn , go back a gear!!

pick a motor that is the best comprise of an all round situation , good bottom end mid range and top end

a gen 111 is a good motor with the ability to expand as the need or budget allows and the same goes for the ford turbo 6

both pretty good stock but not perfect, both pretty good with a s*^t load of cash thrown at them

lots of options, and all pretty good combos, gen 3, ba turbo, lexus v8, holden v8, nissan 6 the list goes on

if it were me i'd use some thing that is easy to get parts for quickly, all of these u can, the only thing with the nissan 4.8 that would shy me away from it is where can you get a big cam, some nice forgies, all the good shit, check that stuff out first before you jump in

thats my 2c
cheers sean

Thanks for the info and keep them coming.

There is a Delco bellhousing that will fit the XR6T onto the Nissan gearbox, as well as engine mounts. The exhaust is still a problem cause we are thinking 3.5" to 4.0" pipes.

We're still weighing up the options. The second option is to freshen up the bottom end of the 4.5 and use GQ rods. I already spent money on new heads and cam, so it's only the bottom end that needs work.

We were entered in the VicWinch Challenge last weekend, but we didn't even start because of electrical problems. I couldn't get parts on Friday. The internals of the dizzy carked it, so it is important to have parts that can be picked up in a hurry.

I'm very interested in doing the OBC in 2006, so one of the consideration is fuel quality. The XR6T will run on regular unleaded if it's the only fuel available and will be more economical during the transport stages. I spoke to Adam Bird last night and that was one of the problems he had durng the OBC 2005. Even with Octane boost, his turbocharged 4.2 engine couldn't run at optimal power, but the V8s still ran well on lower grade fuel.

how about the VH41 or 45 ?

both making around the 200kw mark (claimed to be more) and high 300Nm and low 400Nm respectively. they go for around the $1500 mark and once you factor in ancilleries it should still be cheaper then a gen3 or xr6t. then thereis the option of forced induction, i think this would work out to be the best and cheapest option - including the blower setup

dont forget with the xr setup you will need to run an intercooler aswell, i think water to air would be the best bet for a 4wd, not air to air as when the engine is working you generally aint going fast enough to deliver a cool charge to the air to air unit

OnPatrol wrote:

i have had a bit of experience in turbos on patrols and also being a late model wrecker we have wrecked many XR6 turbos. these are very expensive to transplant and only capable of reliably putting 10lbs into them B4 you need to do internals anyway. you would also need to change injectors, ecu, inlet manifold as the BA is fly by wire, and all the adaptors ect. you will hit well over 10 grand putting the BA motor in.
if you spent 10 grand on your GU motor you will get a much nicer package without the headaches of a conversion.

Krmnl, you'll have to PM me a price on a low mileage engine.

we have a BA XR6 turbo coming in on friday aswell as a SS ute with a gen 3 . just to give you a couple of options. we also have a tb45 that you could build.

to many decisions

optical wrote:how about the VH41 or 45 ?

all the hard work with them is done as others have done this swap before...

or there is some Yota donk Bee bee was doing into GQ's that was supposed to be good too....

1UZ-FE (+ z hehe z = supercharger)

VH41-DE
Type: 4130cc EFI DOHC 32 valve V8
Power: 201kW @ 5600rpm
Torque: 376Nm @ 4000rpm
Gearboxes: RWD 4-Speed Auto


VH45-DE
Type: 4494cc EFI DOHC 32 valve V8
Power: 208kW @ 6000rpm
Torque: 400Nm @ 4000rpm Gearboxes: RWD 4-Speed Auto

you will find the VH41s are more expensive generally cause most are newer and they also have a tendancy to be more of a revvier engine. If the VH45 is your choice look for a late model one as the early ones have an inherant timing chain issue.

How to tell the difference (besides being told)
old ones have an oval "V" badge on plenum
new ones have a nissan in oval badge on plenum

My importer mate can arrange adaptor plates for them or manual box (RB25, VG etc etc) usually go for about $500