Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Anyone made their own spacers ? Are they wedge shaped or just machined flat with the ports milled out ? Any pics of them fitted and not would be nice.

thanks,
Nick.

DON'T get the toorak tractor ones.

There is another mob down Skye way I think, Rova Centre I think. Bit of a backyard operation but the spacers I got from them are way better than the original TT ones.

It would probably be cheaper to buy them than make them anyway.

Not sure if i will need any yet, i may just mod the original manifold or bolt on an adapter for the 4brl carb i have, how do they attach? do they bolt to the heads then the manifold bolts to the spacers or do you use longer manifold bolts ?

If you want a carb and manifold for 4.4 i have one in the garage which is of no use to me.

The Rova Centre ones bolt to the head and then the manifold to the spacers. The TT one just uses longer bolts (and because of this can be a PITA to align properly.)

Pm sent re manifold

[quote="TuffRR"]If you want a carb and manifold for 4.4 i have one in the garage which is of no use to me.

Thanks mate, the 4.4 came with original manifold and carb as its straight out of a stock p76. I will probably be picking your brains with conversion questions later on but i will be sticking to carbs for now, how is yours going now with the megasquirt ?

Loanrangie wrote:

TuffRR wrote:If you want a carb and manifold for 4.4 i have one in the garage which is of no use to me.

Thanks mate, the 4.4 came with original manifold and carb as its straight out of a stock p76. I will probably be picking your brains with conversion questions later on but i will be sticking to carbs for now, how is yours going now with the megasquirt ?

Still under my desk.... it runs fine ATM and TuffRR is a slack biatch!!

OK, my spacers are parallel (not wedge).
Without mesuring them now (it's dark), from memory they are about 19mm thick (will confirm tomorrow).

They are bolted to head using allen head bolts, which are countersunk.
The Rover manifold then bolts to the spacers using original bolts.

There is no spacer/manifold gasket available, so you have to make your own.
The P76 valley cover is used.
Alternatively you could use 2 valley covers - one P76 & one Rover.

Using plenty of gasket goo prevents vacuum leaks!!

Just measured the spacers.
They are 15mm thick (that's the best estimate with limited access).

I'm assuming you are installing the Rover manifold.
One thing to consider is height (or bonnet clearance)
The P76 is taller (and wider) than the Rover, and when the spacers are added it becomes taller again.
I have SUs, and they hit the bonnet.
A little panel beating fixed that!

At the moment the plan is to use the p76 manifold and 450 holley with sprintgas lpg mixer although i do have an efi manifold and access to a milling machine if i decide to make the spacers. What rover parts can i use to rebuild the 4.4 - i think only re ring and new bearings and cam/ chain/ lifters etc.

You can combine a lot of the parts to make a hybrid.

To fit a P76 into a Rangie, you need the Rover water pump.
Also the flywheel is different, and has to be re drilled.
There is also something about the spigot bearing, but I can't remember what.

My 4.4 has Rover heads.
They utilise rockers (as in they have a rocker shaft), whereas the 4.4 heads use tappets.
The pushrods are also different.
The 4.4 uses the pushrods to oil the tappets, the Rover uses oil through the rocker shaft mounts (the block has to be drilled).

The Rover heads have 14 head bolts, the 4.4 has 10.

I'm not sure of the benefits of the rover heads, maybe a better combustion chamber design, or maybe just to raise the compression?

I believe the pistons are the same, as are the lifters.
Probably the whole bottom end - not sure.

Is anyone using the 4.4 heads on their 4.4 as opposed to fitting rover heads ? Alternatively is there any probs using rover heads and not drilling the oil gallery hole and using the 4.4 pushrods ? I dont really wont to risk stuffing the block and prefer not paying a machine shop to do it as i'm trying to keep the costs down as much as possible - i will spend where its most beneficial.

Nick,
To keep costs down, use the P76 heads.

If you use the rover heads, then you must drill the block.
They both use a completely different oiling system, and can't be combined.

I am unsure of the benefits of the rover heads (if any). They were on the vehicle when I bought it.

Oh, and to add to the list of alterations to fit into a RR, the engine mounts need to be modified.

As far as i know most use the rover heads because they have the accessory mount holes already in them but i only need 2 holes - 1 for the alternator/ p/ steer pump and 1 for the york a/c compressor. Compresion is 9 - 1 and i think this is all to do with the pistons anyway so swapping heads wont do much. I guess that means i can use all rover gaskets apart from the valley cover ?

The heads will have an impact on compression and even the type of gasket you use. I'm sure the cc between leyland and rover heads are different but don't remember what it is.

G`day Nick ,

Not all that up on Leyland 4.4s but i guess you know there`s 2 the P76 and Terrier main diff is comp ratio .

The 4.4 have the same big end bearings and cam bearings as Rover 3.5s , the mains are different , the piston pins on the 4.4s are very slightly larger in dia and very slightly shorter than Rovers but unless the clearances are both the wrong way would probably interchange so if doing anything there would require measuring or it may have a knock .

The pistons bowls in the P76 , Terrier , Rover high and low are all totally different and i think the deck height of the Leyland and Rover are different . The pistons will interchange but again would need measuring .

The rings in the Leylands are the same as early Rovers as in they are wider/thicker than the ones in your 85 if it`s the original engine . Compression rings that is the oil rings are the same for all .

The leyland has the same size valves as early Rovers which are smaller than the later valves as in your 85 and i think this is one of the reasons people go for the Rover over Leyland Heads .

As far as lubing the gear the rover uses 2 holes which fill the rocker shafts and lube that way , as you know the Leyland uses the push rods . If you use the Rover heads and the Leyland push rods to lube it will still fill the rocker shaft , instead of oil comming up the 2 end pedestals and out the rocker arms to the pushrods it goes up the pushrods in through the rocker arms into the rockershaft but has 4 entry points instead of 2 so could be argued that it may work better , either way neither has any problem lubricating what`s needed .

The leyland gear has 1.5:1 ratio the Rover has 1.6:1 Ratio , timing sets are the same , cams are the same .

Probly other things i can`t think of now , if there`s anything in particular just ask but as i say i`m not really up on 4.4s but do have some info , don`t think i have stuff like 4.4 deck height , not sure .

If i haven`t explained something properly , happy to try .

All the best , peter .

Thanks guys, not going to alter the compression apart from a light head shave and composite gaskets. I have a spare set of sd1 rover heads so whichever is in the best condition will be used. I want to keep away from drilling the block if possible so rover heads with the 4.4 pushrods may be the go, i assume rover rods will be too short anyway . Once i strip it down i wil have a better idea of what i will be doing. Glenn, who did you get the cam from ? i checked out the crow cams site and they have cam that sounds ok.

Loanrangie wrote:Compresion is 9 - 1 and i think this is all to do with the pistons anyway so swapping heads wont do much.

OK, here's a theory lesson.

Compression ratio is defines as:
Compression Ration =(Swept Volume + Clearance Volume)/(Clearance Volume).

Swept Volume is bore x stroke.
Clearance Volume is the sum of:
Piston to deck volume,
Head Gasket Volume,
Combustion Chamber Volume,
Piston Dome Volume (this may be +ve or -ve depending on piston)

It's a ratio only - pure maths.
Compression in psi will vary, but the compression ratio will not change (unless one of the above changes).

Loanrangie wrote:Glenn, who did you get the cam from ? i checked out the crow cams site and they have cam that sounds ok.

Jeesh, you're really testing my memory here. I don't even remember where i parked it let alone what cam i put in it 3 years ago.

Dynatech comes to mind but i'm not sure why. Do they even make cams?
I do remember that the consensus was to stay away from Crow.

Does anyone have a manual for a 4.4 they can scan for me, just the pages with the engine specs etc.

thanks,
Nick.

Loanrangie wrote:Does anyone have a manual for a 4.4 they can scan for me, just the pages with the engine specs etc.

thanks,
Nick.

Me too please.

While starting to pull the 4.4 down to check internal condition, i noticed the the extra engine mount bolt holes required for Rangie fitment have already been drilled and tapped? Motor came straight out of a P76 and the extra hole bosses were machined and never used not a later modfication ?

Loanrangie wrote:While starting to pull the 4.4 down to check internal condition, i noticed the the extra engine mount bolt holes required for Rangie fitment have already been drilled and tapped? Motor came straight out of a P76 and the extra hole bosses were machined and never used not a later modfication ?

You sure its a 4.4 and someone hasn't put a 3.5/3.9 in its place?

No reason why a 4.4 in a P76 would have these drilled and tapped if it is original.

Nah, definately a 4.4, engine number, timing cover/ pump etc confirm that it is.

That 4.4 almost looks like mine bar the rocker covers (mine have the Rover ones on). heads are definatley Leyland issue (10 not 14 bolts like Rover) but the timing case, pulley, dizzy, etc are all Rover.

Trav

Pulled it down today and did a mockup with a hei dizzy and 4brl holley.

Loanrangie wrote:Pulled it down today and did a mockup with a hei dizzy and 4brl holley.

What car did you get the HEI off or was it an ebay job?

Tom

Hi Nick
I have a genuine Leyland P76 Manual, you can scan the pages that you need or I can do it for you...
Give me a call

RaginRover wrote:

Loanrangie wrote:Pulled it down today and did a mockup with a hei dizzy and 4brl holley.

What car did you get the HEI off or was it an ebay job?

Tom

I bought an Oldsmobile hei off ebay locally and fitted the guts into a buick V6 hei body ( i have 2 3.8 ltr V6's ) that i had lying around.

Ralf the RR wrote:

Loanrangie wrote:Does anyone have a manual for a 4.4 they can scan for me, just the pages with the engine specs etc.

thanks,
Nick.

Me too please.

I have a P76 manual you can have if you want to drop by work.