Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Is there anyone out there with a GQ or Gu Patrol that thinks they could use a low range ratio 24% lower than standard?
If you have 35" tyres you need 15% lower to bring you back to standard so 24% is just that bit lower with 35" tyres.
****Follow up to above****
There are 2 new Nissan ratios coming out.
24% lower than standard & 44% lower than standard.
Cost I don't know but they will be cheaper than 85% reduction.
The 24% is for people with enough power to turn bigger wheels(35"-37") but don't want to go any slower in low range.
The 44% is an inbetween standard, and the current 85% rock crawling range.

********** Mathematical Calculations for Gear Reduction **********
This is how to work out your ratio change or % of reduction:
Take the numbers of teeth in the gears and do the sums..............
Input Gear = 23 Teeth runs with a 40 Tooth Gear on the Idler
On the other side of the idler is a 20 Tooth Gear
This runs against the Output Gear with 43 Teeth
Looks Like This: 23 x 20
40 43
23 x 20=460
Divide 460 by 40 x 43(1720)
= .267441
1 divide .267441 = 3.739142 This is your new ratio.
Standard 1:2 New 1:3.739142
2 x 1.87(87% underdrive)=3.74
For 43% = Input 27T Idler 36 teeth-20 Teeth Output 43 Teeth
27 x 20 divide 36 x 43 = .348837
1 divide .348837 = 2.866
2 x 1.43(43%)=2.86
Mark H
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sure just that bit lower would be great i find mine over runs downhill in low first and if breaking you can almost stall trying to be slow enough for a controled decent

okay, dont get me wrong here, but my question is, what cost would you be looking at for a 24% reduction?

in my honest opinion with my sort of driving, 83% which is adequate is offered by rockhopper, the only reaon youd think about only fittin 24% is if you lived in victoria with heaps of mud,

what has made you think of having only 24%?

change your diff ratios....
4.6's bout $2000 max fitted front and rear

Hoss wrote:Is there anyone out there with a GQ or Gu Patrol that thinks they could use a low range ratio 24% lower than standard?
If you have 35" tyres you need 15% lower to bring you back to standard so 24% is just that bit lower with 35" tyres.
Mark H

could be interesting, but all depends on amount to be ordered to make it worth while.

Frank did it with the Pajero crowd, but there was a minimum required to order before they would even look at it, then there was the price for such a small order.


changing diff ratios is nothing like transfercase gear change

I would think that maybe around 40% reduction would be more doable. Would give a little bit better than stock tyres/nissan gears while running 35+ tyres but nothing to low. I don't think the 24% would be worth the effort. That said, the 24% or 40% reduction gears would be need to be a fair bit cheaper than the ~83% to make them attractive to buyers.

I also understand that the engineering logistics may not make ~40% reduction possible.

Personally, I'll be getting the ~83% set when I have the $$$.

RoldIT wrote:Personally, I'll be getting the ~83% set when I have the $$$.

would be nice to go dual t/cases..

Normal Low range can be handy, where too low would suck.

Duals would be nice, but a bit too much farken around for the average bolt-on bandit like myself.

RoldIT wrote:Duals would be nice, but a bit too much farken around for the average bolt-on bandit like myself.

Marks do a kit now dont they?
I think CHeezy had them in the mav at one stage

Yes, I understand Cheezy still has them in the Mav but lots of dicking around with crossmembers, drive shafts, clearencing for shifters, blah, blah, blah ...

No prob for a pro with fab skills but too much for me to warrant. Bru21 can tell you more about this install.


Anyway, back on topic.

24% gears, who wants em?

Somebody recently did a dual transfer job and it worked out about 5 or 6 grand (from a dim memory).
I'd be seriously interested in 40% cos I have an auto and 83% is too slow, 24% not worth the work. Warrantee is about to run out, so am eager to spend.

Big thing here is money.... the cost of replacement gears is gonna be close to the 83%. The cost of manufacturing a new set of gears would be similar.

Of course if they could be sourced from somewhere else (dunno what the new Pathy tcase ratios are but they've always been about 2.4:1 and the Patrol 2:1) then the $$ may well work out more favourable.

Mind you there's always the potential benefit that the 40% gears dont need grinding of the tcase to fit. A lot of people would not be keen on this on a new GU for instance but could see the benefit of some gearing improvement.


80% lower than stock is far too much on 33"s (which are after all only 6% bigger than 31"s)... but 40% would be a good compromise and still would be a worthwhile benefit even with 35"s.

Remember guys even 35"s are only 12% bigger rubber. Dont knock 40%.

Interesting... the Ratio for the Hilux 3.743:1... same as the GQ Patrol one.

Does this mean that there is the possibilty of compatibility between the Yotas and the Patrols? Maybe difference in holes and bearing sizes?

Dunno. Anyone got bits floating around to check?

2.48:1 is the stock gear ratio of the 80 and 100 series. Considering the internal inconsistencies on the Landcruiser 40 series page where there's a 2.82 and a 2.81. Could this be the source of the 24% and 44% reduction kit?

I also found some references to some Mazda transfer cases with 2.484:1 ratio reduction.


Hmmmm....

this coming from a rover guy, what is the ratio of first low in a gu(stock)

cheers, serg

The Gears are a completely new manufactured set.
To get the ratio you work out from numbers of teeth.
Input Gear 27 Teeth driving idler gear with 36 teeth.
On the other part of the idler is a 20 tooth gear which drives onto a 43 tooth output gear.
27T x 20T divide this by 36T x 43T All this = .348837
1 Divided by this = 2.866668
Standard ratio is 1:2 low range
To get ratio 1:2.866668 = 2 x 1.43(43%)Close anyway.
Mark

this is all very good information i'm getting here.

I've got a petrol engine which instead of crawling over rocks in creek beds, it just dies in the arse! what kinda pricing would i be lookin at for the reduction gears? i'm coming to the end of my apprenticeship and have about 5 weeks of holidays that need to be paid out to me so wanna put that money towards some reduction gears.

Are you guys saying that its best to go straight for the 83% reduction gears or are the different ratios better to keep the car flexible in different situations?

it really depends on where you do alot of your driving,

if your into rock crawling, where its best to have slow speed and heaps of traction, id definatly go for the 83% reduction, this is where i drive, and inour house we have 3 sets,

if your into a combination of mud, fire trails and beach work, where high wheel speed is needed more often, your probably better off going for something around the 40% mark,

Hoss wrote:The Gears are a completely new manufactured set.

But how much?

It also depends on the engine and diff ratios you currently have in your Patrol? I have a 4.5 GU, 4.1 ratios with 83% reduction gears and it works well with 35" tyres. 3.0 diesel with 4.3 ratios may find 83% too low, so 44% may be the better choice.

I find that one of the best benefits of reduction gears is throttle control, specially when assisting the winch. Riding the clutch is a thing of the past.

24% reduction gear may be useful if you already have 4.6 or 4.8 diff ratios and you want better gearing in low range.

yeah its a 4.2 petrol, i do find myself in all types of situations but i find the creek beds and that kinda thing the most challenging and fun. i'm running 35 mtrs so that changes the overall ratio doesn't it but theres the stock diff ratio's which i think are 4.1?.....

but yes pricing would be good. i've heard pulling the transfer out is a piece of piss but i'd be giving it to a pro to install the gears. anyone know of people on the northside

from the very small amount of driving i have done with my duals i don't think its too low and thats 100% lower i guess. I would work out the overall ratios of std high range than low range and see where the cross over point is. what i mean is with a 24% reduction you may find that low range 5th is higher than high range 1st, so you can go lower still for example. the same can be said about the 83% there might be a gap that is too big between lr 5th and hr1st. find what is a nice gear spread and run with that. i never bothered and went duals but it is defenitaly WAY TOO MUCH FRIGGIN AROUND and expense for 95% of people, search and you will find more

bru

Josh n Kat wrote:yeah its a 4.2 petrol, i do find myself in all types of situations but i find the creek beds and that kinda thing the most challenging and fun. i'm running 35 mtrs so that changes the overall ratio doesn't it but theres the stock diff ratio's which i think are 4.1?.....

but yes pricing would be good. i've heard pulling the transfer out is a piece of piss but i'd be giving it to a pro to install the gears. anyone know of people on the northside

Expect to pay around $1500 for Mark Adaptors 85% reduction gears supply and fitted. Petrol, 35" tyres, manual with 85% reduction gear, you'll do most hill climbs in 3rd gear low and sometimes 2nd low, most descents in 2nd gear low. I only use 1st for crawling and/or winching. Think of the money you save when you save your clutch from burning out.

No prices available yet on 24% and 43% reduction gears. Give them a call if you're intersted in prices:

http://www.marks4wd.com/Nissan-GQ-GU-ex ... -gears.htm

ok that sounds pretty good to me. yeah the clutch is on the way out and i know i need to replace it soon but i'd still rather spend the money on reduction gears giving a stuffed clutch more life and me more fun!

that really is one of the big things my diesel mates have over me is the ability to just idle over everything whereas i have to keep blimpin the throttle and slipping the poor clutch. who is this mark character and where can i find him?

the falcon fuel injections in bru, not great, just good but better than carby and points. thanks for ya help with all ya info

ok that sounds pretty good to me. yeah the clutch is on the way out and i know i need to replace it soon but i'd still rather spend the money on reduction gears giving a stuffed clutch more life and me more fun!

that really is one of the big things my diesel mates have over me is the ability to just idle over everything whereas i have to keep blimpin the throttle and slipping the poor clutch. who is this mark character and where can i find him?

the falcon fuel injections in bru, not great, just good but better than carby and points. thanks for ya help with all ya info

I'm driving a 4.8 Auto (as the sig says), with 35's, and 3.9 ratios (instead of the standard 3.5's) I still find that the engine breaking is really bad, and it runs away from me down steep hills. I was considering installing the 83% reduction gears, but it seems that the 44% may be better suited to my driving (mostly in the mud).

Would that be right? Thanks.

Jonty

yeah that happens with me too but thats just a petrol trait really. you do the same with a diesel and it just dont happen!

sounds like you've got the same dilema i had, not knowing which gearset is best for you. i guess with mud you do need extra speed but i grew outta mud (mostly got sick of the hours of cleaning and cause there aint any water in brisbane to clean with i give it a miss) but i mostly wanna make it easier for me to drive. Right now i do more foot movements than a ballet dancer just to keep the engine running and to keep momentum up!

yeah that happens with me too but thats just a petrol trait really. you do the same with a diesel and it just dont happen!

sounds like you've got the same dilema i had, not knowing which gearset is best for you. i guess with mud you do need extra speed but i grew outta mud (mostly got sick of the hours of cleaning and cause there aint any water in brisbane to clean with i give it a miss) but i mostly wanna make it easier for me to drive. Right now i do more foot movements than a ballet dancer just to keep the engine running and to keep momentum up!

Josh n Kat wrote:
the falcon fuel injections in bru, not great, just good but better than carby and points. thanks for ya help with all ya info

good stuff sorry i haven't got back to your pm haven't had time to think about it, don't want to give you a rough guess if i can think of a solution

cheers mate bru

Josh n Kat wrote:yeah that happens with me too but thats just a petrol trait really. you do the same with a diesel and it just dont happen!!

yes it does... diesel auto anyway

I have a Diesel auto and it runs away something shocking, but thats not that great a problem, I just use the brakes, and drive thru them if need be. Sure engine braking would be handy but lower gearing is a better reason for changing anything especially when crawling up rocky tracks to help avoid damage and breaking traction.
Yes I know lower gearing breaks traction easier, but thats in a manual when you're thrashing it to get up a hill and trying to change gears etc.
I have thought that 83% too low with the auto and I'd end up having to stop too often to change up to high, so now 43% is a way better op[tion.
Bring 'em on!!!!!!
If everyone puts in, I'll fit em and give you a test ride OK.