Outer Limits 4x4 Board

What tricks are there to tuning up an old 2H...

What generally gets tested when an old diesel goes in for a tune up.

Is there much that can be tweaked if i booked it in somewhere or is there not much too it and im better off doing it myself?

Just starting to think that over the past few months performance has started to really suck as compared to about 6mths ago (go the 2H)

Thanks
Leeroy

Injection timing. Check it out. Maybe advance it a tad it you have a bigger exhaust and header + a snorkel fitted.

Compression test. See if your actually firing on all 6 properly. Are your glow plugs in good condition? Also the pre heating, charge system. Are the plugs being charged and fired properly.

There some things I would like to get done. Vale stems as well, and piston rings checked out.

Also are the valve clearances to spec??

pre heating system is a problem... its clickin on and off more these days, and draining a shit load more off my battery...

Some mornings, i wait till the light goes off, then wait till i hear it click and start it up and my yard still gets full of white smoke...

Generally starts up fine though for the rest of the day...


I thnk it may need some preventitive maintenence...

Leeroy

Basic stuff will go a fair way but. Engine oil filter, fuel and air filters. The basics. I wander what it costs for the pump timing to be checked?

joel HJ60 wrote:Basic stuff will go a fair way but. Engine oil filter, fuel and air filters. The basics. I wander what it costs for the pump timing to be checked?

i charge to set the timming on a 2h $170-00 .
$90 to replace the diaframe .

i know your in vic but it aroung 3 hours to set the timming .

rock hopper wrote:

joel HJ60 wrote:Basic stuff will go a fair way but. Engine oil filter, fuel and air filters. The basics. I wander what it costs for the pump timing to be checked?

i charge to set the timming on a 2h $170-00 .
$90 to replace the diaframe .

i know your in vic but it aroung 3 hours to set the timming .

$170 sounds reasonable! What's the diaphram?

how do you know that you have the timing right? I know with a petrol engine you can hear the thing ping however the old 2h's are noisey and it is hard to hear the thing ping (other than its normal rattle)if the timing is too far advanced.

Do you spill time it every time you advance it? I have a 2h turbo, currently at around 7psi, with snorkel and 3' system and would love for it to go better but am hesitant as I don';t want to blow the thing.

Den.R wrote:how do you know that you have the timing right? I know with a petrol engine you can hear the thing ping however the old 2h's are noisey and it is hard to hear the thing ping (other than its normal rattle)if the timing is too far advanced.

Do you spill time it every time you advance it? I have a 2h turbo, currently at around 7psi, with snorkel and 3' system and would love for it to go better but am hesitant as I don';t want to blow the thing.

I run 13psi on my 2h. But i am also intercooled. Goes pretty nice though.

joel HJ60 wrote:

rock hopper wrote:

joel HJ60 wrote:Basic stuff will go a fair way but. Engine oil filter, fuel and air filters. The basics. I wander what it costs for the pump timing to be checked?

i charge to set the timming on a 2h $170-00 .
$90 to replace the diaframe .

i know your in vic but it aroung 3 hours to set the timming .

$170 sounds reasonable! What's the diaphram?

A DIAFRAME IS in your injector pump .

ah DIAFRAME sorry

joel HJ60 wrote:ah DIAFRAME sorry

I think it is DIAPHRAM

timcruiser wrote:

joel HJ60 wrote:ah DIAFRAME sorry

I think it is DIAPHRAM

hmmm, i think he means a diaphragm. The 'g' is silent.

And the diaphragm in question is the governor diaphragm. When it fails, and tears and starts to leak, your car will start to idle higher and overfuel. Its quite common in 2h's and 3b's.

As to the original question about how to tune up a 2h, i got nothing.

Timing, fueling and compression is about the only things besides general maintenance that will make it go harder. And any gains you make will be minimal.

Turbo is the best performer, then go extractors if you are on a cheaper budget.

What did your entire turbo + intercooler setup cost?

joel HJ60 wrote:What did your entire turbo + intercooler setup cost?

if that question was aimed at me, it cost about $3800.

That includes new turbo, manifold, exhaust, installation, plumbing, intercooler core, intercooler plumbing in 3 inch stainless steel and blow off valve and boost gauge.

I think it was a reasonable investment.

carts wrote:

joel HJ60 wrote:What did your entire turbo + intercooler setup cost?

if that question was aimed at me, it cost about $3800.

That includes new turbo, manifold, exhaust, installation, plumbing, intercooler core, intercooler plumbing in 3 inch stainless steel and blow off valve and boost gauge.

I think it was a reasonable investment.

Thats a cracker of a price... How much of that included work you did yourself and/or mates rates...

Thats sensational

Leeroy

vanzbrown wrote:

carts wrote:

joel HJ60 wrote:What did your entire turbo + intercooler setup cost?

if that question was aimed at me, it cost about $3800.

That includes new turbo, manifold, exhaust, installation, plumbing, intercooler core, intercooler plumbing in 3 inch stainless steel and blow off valve and boost gauge.

I think it was a reasonable investment.

Thats a cracker of a price... How much of that included work you did yourself and/or mates rates...

Thats sensational

Leeroy

Well, it was a work in progress for a while.

The turbo kit from denco cost $2400 about 2 years ago. That came with exhaust, manifold, turbo, cross over pipe, oil plumbing etc....a complete kit ready to be installed. Dumbdunce installed the kit for about $400. So stage one of the turbo install cost roughly $2800.

I picked the intercooler up from ebay for $240. I made up all the mountings for it and removed the front grill. Using a knibbler, dumdunce and I cut holes in the front apron just below the headlight surrounds to fit 3 inch pipe through.

I then took the car to windsor exhaust centre. They fabbed up 3 inch madrel bent stainless steel piping for the intercooler. Joints were done in silicone fittings. It cost $640 from memory for that component, which i thought was pretty reasonable for a full custom setup.

After all of that, compressor surge was pretty bad, so i picked up a new blow off valve off ebay for about $90. Installation was pretty simple, with the use of a mig welder and a decent hole saw. Blow off valve plumbing cost about $40 or so. Boost gauge was about $50.

All in all, that adds up to about $3860. Give or take another $100 in random parts and labour. If i was to do it again, i dont think i could do the intercooler setup any better or cheaper. The turbo component though, i reckon using a 2nd hand turbo and a custom made manifold, you could do it for about $1400 including all parts and labour (excluding full exhaust system) jus modding the original exhaust.

vanzbrown wrote:

carts wrote:

joel HJ60 wrote:What did your entire turbo + intercooler setup cost?

if that question was aimed at me, it cost about $3800.

That includes new turbo, manifold, exhaust, installation, plumbing, intercooler core, intercooler plumbing in 3 inch stainless steel and blow off valve and boost gauge.

I think it was a reasonable investment.

Thats a cracker of a price... How much of that included work you did yourself and/or mates rates...

Thats sensational

Leeroy

I installed the turbo, which was around 2800 installed from memory. it is a Denco kit with schwitzer turbo and includes full exhaust. the Intercooler was sourced on ebay, around $300?, Carts mounted it himself, we cut some holes in the radiator support panel for the plumbing, and the intercooler plumbing was supplied and installed in stainless steel by a reputable exhaust shop. we then found that with the air volume in the intercooler and boost over 10psi, boost was spiking (off the top of 15psi gauge) due to the throttle butterfly used to govern fuel delivery, so a BOV was sourced on ebay modified to work with the very low vacuum generated in the 2H inlet, then installed to the intercooler plumbing.

with a bit of imagination and perserverance its possible to do a custom turbo on a 2H with a second hand import turbo for very cheap - possibly as cheap as new extractors/full exhaust - and even if the turbo costs a few hundred more, the extra power is definitely worth it.

Although the 2H is not the best candidate for turbocharging, cart's one is standing up to 13psi quite well - the key thing is to keep the EGT's low - IO think we have his set up for 500C max post turbo.

It keeps up with (ok it's slightly quicker!) than my 80 series factory turbo multivalve.

Sounds good eh eh eh

One way to get a cheap turbo setup is to flip the standard exhaust manifold, make a flange on it to mount the turbo, and do all the piping, oil lines etc.
Cheap but effective for those that can do work themselves.

Hey Carts have you any photos of the intercooler conversion?


I am at Richmond and would love to see the set up and do it on mine...

Sorry to hijack your thread vanzbrown.






Hope that works.

Nah, no worries... Good to finally see some pics of your beast. How bout some of the whole car

From what ive been reading its a corker of a 60...

Leeroy

It goes alright for an old girl.

When i bought it about 2.5 years ago, it was in immaculate condition for its age. Now its pretty beat up and dirty all the time.

I will see if i can find some decent shots on my computer, and i will post them up in the toyots rigs post.

With the intercooler setup, i now have a screen over the front of the intercooler.

carts wrote:It goes alright for an old girl.

When i bought it about 2.5 years ago, it was in immaculate condition for its age. Now its pretty beat up and dirty all the time.

I will see if i can find some decent shots on my computer, and i will post them up in the toyota rigs post.

With the intercooler setup, i now have a screen over the front of the intercooler.

Goes alright for an old girl I bet that is an understatement! Sounds like mine. Mine was immaculate when I bought it.... I wish it still was. Definately post up some more pics!

Some more photos can be seen in my members thread in the members section for those who are interested.

Nice setup... thanks for the pics...

Hi guys, i just found this thread though a search and thought this was the place to ask

Im looking at buying a HJ60 and doing a home turbo conversion for towing my toy/race car. I was looking under the bonnet of one of our farm HJ75's at a 2H and ive got some questions about the fueling side of things

It has some sort of vacuum operated arm which actuates the fuel pump and that wierd "throttle" on the intake. After talking to a friend he said it takes vac refs before and after the "throttle" such that when you stamp your foot it doesnt just open the injector pump flat out but slowly with reference to the vac signals. So you dont get big black clouds of smoke when taking off at the lights

I was just over at the overlander forums and they seem to be very, not liking 2H turbo conversions and kits. But from what i can see from the kits is they dont do anything to the fuel, are all these cracked heads and overheating from having stupidly large EGTs and not keeping a lid on them via adding more fuel?

Also, how does that funny fuel pump vac solenoid operaty thing go with boost in the intake rather than a vacuum. As well as that how are you guys adding more fuel? just adjusting the throttle stop?

gearb0x wrote:
It has some sort of vacuum operated arm which actuates the fuel pump and that wierd "throttle" on the intake. After talking to a friend he said it takes vac refs before and after the "throttle" such that when you stamp your foot it doesnt just open the injector pump flat out but slowly with reference to the vac signals. So you dont get big black clouds of smoke when taking off at the lights

it's less about black clouds and more about soft progression - a correctly tuned pump with good injector won't make smoke, full stop. your friend is correct though - it does use a vacuum signal (more correctly a pressure differential) across the throttle butterfly to control fuel delivery.

I was just over at the overlander forums and they seem to be very, not liking 2H turbo conversions and kits. But from what i can see from the kits is they dont do anything to the fuel, are all these cracked heads and overheating from having stupidly large EGTs and not keeping a lid on them via adding more fuel?

unlike a petrol engine, a lean condition in a Diesel actually causes LOW EGT's. Head cracking in 2H's is more likely due to excessive boost and excessive fuel driving the EGT up.

Also, how does that funny fuel pump vac solenoid operaty thing go with boost in the intake rather than a vacuum. As well as that how are you guys adding more fuel? just adjusting the throttle stop?

the vac signal fuel metering works fine with boost - it doesn't read an actual pressure, or pressure relative to atmosphere, only differential pressure across the throttle butterfly (and it is a fairly small differential pressure, nothing like the vacuum ina petrol engine with the throttle closed). To adjust fuelling there is a screw on the back of the fuel pump, retained with a tricky nut with three holes in it - you will need to make or buy a special wrench. more fuel = counterclockwise, about 1 turn per 10psi (very roughly - you need to use an EGT gauge to get it spot on). Adjusting the throttle stop will only adjust peak RPM and you don't want to fiddle with that - it's not a high revving motor at all.

The 2H is said to be a less than ideal candidate for turbocharging because of the extreme restriction in the precombustion chamber orifice which causes localised overheating/hot spots in the head, and it does not have piston skirt oil cooling, so under high boost conditions the pistons can collect a lot of heat and start to collapse. Relax though because it's all manageable - Cart's truck that features in this thread runs about 13psi intercooled and his EGT's on a warm day, at full throttle, uphill, high revs in 3rd/4th gear max out at about 500C (I think - it's probably almost a year since we tested it) - and a safe upper limit would be about 600C for the 2H. we deliberately turned the fuel down a little so it should NEVER go too high, but if you have an EGT permanently fitted than you can set it up to overfuel slightly, and just lift off the throttle if the temp gets a bit on the high side.

hope thatr all helps a bit

cheers
Brian