Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi guys,

Had a look at a 1981 3.5ltr RR with LPG on the weekend. I generally know what to look for in a vehicle (although you wouldn't think so with my last RR purchase!). However I know nothing about LPG. What are the things I should consider when buying an LPG equipped vehicle?

Cheers
Stu

As long as the tank is in date ( less than 10 years of the date stamped on the tank) then there isnt much else to consider, the hardware is simple and easy to fix if there are problems. I have converted 2 rangies myself and its easy as.

Is it dual fuel or straight gas? Duel fuel will not give you the headaches of long trips and running out of gas (I don't have to tell you there isn't a gerry can for gas).
With gas, you do hurt valves ect., all be it very little, so if the heads are off at any stage you should consider copper inserts ect. to defeat this minor issue.
I had straight gas (gas research) on my last car, it's great and very reliable, but don't want to put it on my rangie for fear of running out in the scrub.
The only other thing I can think of checking is if it's duel fuel, check that it runs/idles well on both fuels. If it's carbied, carby floats don't like gas too much and as a result, can stuff up and it will run poor or not at all on fuel.

I know the gas was installed in '94, so I guess the check has been done - It would turn up on the RWC anyway?!
It's duel fuel and ran well on petrol but the LPG tank was empty, so not sure how it would run. Apparently it was turned for a Holley carb but the guy had put the SU's back on when I looked at it. Seemed a big sluggish on petrol but ran smoothly, otherwise.

Check the oil level in the dash pots on the carbs, if they are dry it will run crap on both fuels, had this prob on mine, topped them back up and its all good.

get some gas in it and run it to know for sure... rev it out through the gears to make sure it doesn't starve in the top end of the rev range.

mu-stu wrote: Apparently it was turned for a Holley carb but the guy had put the SU's back on when I looked at it.

SU's or Strombergs?

The SU's don't have the diaphragm and the Stromies do.

Apparently the SU's are better for gas.
The constant up/down of the piston is not a problem (on gas).
However, there are solenoids available that hold the piston up while on gas for the Stromies.

OK.
A gas system is very simplistic.
Basically there are 3 major components (besides the plumbing):
Tank, Converter & Mixer.

The only tuning is done at the converter, which converts liquid to gas.
It works by differential pressure on a diaphragm.
ie atmospheric on one side and carby vacuum (venturi) on the other.
It has radiator coolant flowing through it to prevent it icing up.
It also "gums up". This is caused by the waxes in the liquid/gas collecting in the mixer, which degrades it's efficiency.
Very easy to dismantle & clean.

The mixer is the outlet for the gas into the air inlet of the carby.
Not rocket science.

It's an ineficient sytem, but very cost effective.
I get about 17-21 L/100km from my 4.4 Rangie.
I get simialr figures on petrol.

Power is slightly down.
Not realy noticeable on normal flat driving, but the difference on hills is quite dramatic, however tollerable.

As others have said, the tanks are a key factor.
The date of last test is stamped on a plate.
They have to be pressure tested every 10 years.
Not sure of the cost (will find out next year), but I have heard it's a lot.

They are not time bombs waiting to explode!
There are many safety mechanisms to prevent this.
Although saying that, mine developed a couple of leaks.
You can smell it when there is a problem.
A soapy leak check solution will find the problem.

I run mine on gas 95% of the time.
Gas is not available in the sticks, so long trips are a planned event.

Ralf the RR wrote:Not sure of the cost (will find out next year), but I have heard it's a lot.

Last quote I had was $190 here in Brisbane

Tom

A mate took his to a scuba dive mob. 2 80lt tanks cost $150 to test,It
would pay to ring around.


Jon

crackajack wrote:A mate took his to a scuba dive mob. 2 80lt tanks cost $150 to test,It
would pay to ring around.


Jon

Did they plate it ?

Tom

Yes they were restamped.

Jon

Hi All, $190 to test a tank in Brisbane? Do you guys have Haines Gas in QLD? They charge me $45 to test my LPG 70ltr tank and $15 to test my scuba tanks. the lpg test comes with the new plate put on by them.

BTW, you do have a gas gerry can if you have a BBQ. You can get a kit that uses the safety hose but with an adaptor so that you can empty a 9kg bbq gas bottle into your LPG tank via the normal fill tap. Just screws on like at a servo, open the bottle tap, hold bbq bottle upside down and empty in. 9kgs of gas is definitely better than nothing and I have even seen guys with bigger bottles that did the same.

Torden wrote:Hi All, $190 to test a tank in Brisbane? Do you guys have Haines Gas in QLD? They charge me $45 to test my LPG 70ltr tank and $15 to test my scuba tanks. the lpg test comes with the new plate put on by them.

BTW, you do have a gas gerry can if you have a BBQ. You can get a kit that uses the safety hose but with an adaptor so that you can empty a 9kg bbq gas bottle into your LPG tank via the normal fill tap. Just screws on like at a servo, open the bottle tap, hold bbq bottle upside down and empty in. 9kgs of gas is definitely better than nothing and I have even seen guys with bigger bottles that did the same.

Farout that is cheap, got a contact number for a couple of these places, would be worth shipping it down and getting it done, I am dead keen on a set of scuba tanks but don't want to pay retail, I just can't seem to find them - they get scouped up pretty quickly, I whitepages(d) haines gas but didn't get any hits in qld or nsw. Will have to look harder

Tom

This is some good info guys, thanks a lot!

Farout that is cheap, got a contact number for a couple of these places, would be worth shipping it down and getting it done, I am dead keen on a set of scuba tanks but don't want to pay retail, I just can't seem to find them - they get scouped up pretty quickly, I whitepages(d) haines gas but didn't get any hits in qld or nsw. Will have to look harder

Tom[/quote]

Tom, HAINES GAS SERVICES, 8 Marinus Pl Erina 2250. Ph (02) 4367 6055

Oh, and btw, when I said i got tested scuba tanks for $15, I mean't SCUBA tanks, not the 3 scuba style tankls used for lpg. Like I did say though, $45 to test my 70ltr lpg tank.

And don't forget the LPG gerry can guys, it's a deadset great idea!

Cheers, Pete'

Torden wrote:I mean't SCUBA tanks, not the 3 scuba style tankls used for lpg. Like I did say though, $45 to test my 70ltr lpg tank.

And don't forget the LPG gerry can guys, it's a deadset great idea!

Cheers, Pete'

I knew which type of tanks you meant, and I am dead keen on a set, just can't seem to find any let me know if you come across any !

Thanks mate

Tom

I'd love to get a hose to do the connection from a BBQ gas bottle to the RR gas filler.
Anyone know from where and how much?

The fillers are on eBay quite regularly.

"scuba" LPG tanks also appear occasionally.

How long did it take Haines to test your LPG tank? It may be worth driving up to Erina if it is a same day service.

Ron

I got pissed off with the twin carbs and lpg setup being so hit and miss, 1 day running great the next it was gutless as. Now i have swapped the 350 holley and manifold with sprintgas mixer from my other rangie over to my 85' and engine bay is so much cleaner and less cluttered, just need to make some linkages for the kickdown and i'm off !

Loanrangie wrote:I got pissed off with the twin carbs and lpg setup being so hit and miss, 1 day running great the next it was gutless as.

Interesting

I've had my 79 4.4 dual fuel for about 3 years.

It has the the the twin mixer setup, and performs very well.
It gets 20L/100km on gas or petrol (more power with petrol)

Never had to tune it (apart from lettle tweaks). I just keep putting gas in, and it keeps running.
Occasionally it' gets tempermental, but it's usually ignition (plug) related.
It has an optospark electronic ignition which never gets adjusted.

It does have SU's instead of the Strommies, and the converter is an old antiqauted Landi-Hartog.

Every one seems to say the su's are better for gas but i'm not about to replace the strommies when i had the holley setup already.

Loanrangie wrote:Every one seems to say the su's are better for gas but i'm not about to replace the strommies when i had the holley setup already.

Totally agree.
Why mess with something that works.
I'm certainly not going to replace my SUs for a holley.

There are so many opinions that it's hard to decify fact from fiction.
I've heard that Strommies require a vacuum solenoid to prevent wear.
I've also heard that Holleys are hopeless at climbs & decents.
I've also heard that SUs are hopeless & inefficient.
I've also heard thet EFI is the go.
I've also that gas injection is best.
I've also heard ....

p38arover wrote: How long did it take Haines to test your LPG tank? It may be worth driving up to Erina if it is a same day service.

Ron

Hi Ron, soory it has taken me so long to reply. They were same day for me but I called beforehand to book it in.

Cheers, Torden

Well I ended up buying the Rangie.

Have been running on petrol as it didn't like slow speed gas work - driving around the 'burbs, etc. Idle was bad and it would cough and splutter on acceleration and also on deceleration with the carbies (?) 'popping'.
Had an LPG specialist look at it today and he adjusted the idle so I ran it home - great until the engine warmed to normal temp then started to cough and splutter on take off and deceleration again

The carbs are Strommies (has Zenith on them, right?). Runs ok on petrol but has no power on acceleration - seems as though there's a huge flat spot. When I bought the vehicle I took it to a Rover specialist and he had the carbs off for an overhaul, I believe.

I'll take it back for the mechanisc to look at but do any of you guys have any ideas?

Cheers

Mine was having the same prob before i swapped the strommies for a single holley, still a bit gutless but then it is a 3spd auto with 31" muds so you get that. All i can suggest is if the carbs have ben overhauled and a lpg specialist has looked at it then maybe its ignition related ?

I had a very hard time getting the standard points ignition in my '76 to cope with LPG - it would work it very hard.

If I had my time over again I would swap it with a full electronic ignition like a luminition system - the problems that plagued my 2 door on LPG simply don't exist on my '91 3.9

Tom

RaginRover wrote:I had a very hard time getting the standard points ignition in my '76 to cope with LPG - it would work it very hard.

If I had my time over again I would swap it with a full electronic ignition like a luminition system - the problems that plagued my 2 door on LPG simply don't exist on my '91 3.9

Tom

Sorry, I should have mentioned I have electronic ignition - Crane Highball (?? Crane something, anyway - can't remember offhand) and Bosch Super Sport (?) iginition leads, although these maybe be reasonably old.

don't count on the roadworthy people to pick up on the outta date tank, thats got me once, as a roady may only be a piece of paper the owner paid a mate to sign