Outer Limits 4x4 Board

DONT GIVE ME THE SEARCH THING... it comes up wid jack crap!!!

Well my mate has got hold of some WT zook diffs to put under his NT Zook...

Wonderin wat the go is??

Steerin wise
Can u buy spring perches??
Wats the castor need to be??
could we leave the 3/4 in the rear or should we take it out???
will the std t shafts be ok???
will 35's fit under it once its done???

Wat other probs will we encounter??

Thanks guys and gals

crankycruiser wrote:DONT GIVE ME THE SEARCH THING... it comes up wid jack crap!!!

Well my mate has got hold of some WT zook diffs to put under his NT Zook...

Wonderin wat the go is??

Steerin wise
Can u buy spring perches??
Wats the castor need to be??
could we leave the 3/4 in the rear or should we take it out???
will the std t shafts be ok???
will 35's fit under it once its done???

Wat other probs will we encounter??

Thanks guys and gals

yes you can buy perches i believe OVERKILL, SNAKERACING and various others sell them
steeringwise? go hi steer again both mobs from above sell kits or just do a "Z"link dodgey yes but still effective and cheap
castor? don't know but if your worried about castor for on road handling for get a "Z" link
3/4 rear spoa front yes 3/4 +spoa rear the thing would look like a nose down drag car and you'd keep dropping you rear shaft and it would handle pretty bad ( i would imagine as i don't have 3/4)
std drive shafts will be fine and if you arnt lengtheneing your wheel base you can get away with out driveshaft spacers
spoa with 35"s yes but you'll need to get out the hammer and grinder and they will hit (depending on rims used ) on full lock on springs but others have better knowledge about this

remember to lengthen your brake lines and remember nt uses 2 lines to the rear diff where a wt uses only one flexible line ,

if you are a cheap bast@rd like myself you can cut the old perches of and reuse them no problems , remmember u bolt on nt goes over edge of diff punkin where on wt it just clears it .

hope this helps
cheers Jai

zookjedi wrote:

crankycruiser wrote:castor? don't know but if your worried about castor for on road handling for get a "Z" link

Please explain this further.
Peter.

zookjedi wrote: 3/4 +spoa rear the thing would look like a nose down drag car

This one too.
Peter.

crankycruiser wrote:DONT GIVE ME THE SEARCH THING... it comes up wid jack crap!!!

Well my mate has got hold of some WT zook diffs to put under his NT Zook...

Wonderin wat the go is??

Steerin wise
Can u buy spring perches??
Wats the castor need to be??
could we leave the 3/4 in the rear or should we take it out???
will the std t shafts be ok???
will 35's fit under it once its done???

Wat other probs will we encounter??

Thanks guys and gals

i already told yas today...
he is planing to run 35's on my old diffs
he betta pay for em b4 yaz mate em up with 35's!
im concernd now!
didnt scotty save that link about the merc arms?
Philby

Well zooks with standard wheelbase and 35's always look different lol, any more width? or just extremly high?

crankycruiser wrote:DONT GIVE ME THE SEARCH THING... it comes up wid jack crap!!!

Well my mate has got hold of some WT zook diffs to put under his NT Zook...

Wonderin wat the go is??

Steerin wise
Can u buy spring perches??
Wats the castor need to be??
could we leave the 3/4 in the rear or should we take it out???
will the std t shafts be ok???
will 35's fit under it once its done???

Wat other probs will we encounter??

Thanks guys and gals

this is from what i havce learnt:

1st up, obviously NT and WT have springs in different positions. either you're welding on new perches on the NT diffs to fit the WT chassis, or you are moving all the spring mounts inwards on the chassis and leaving the NT spacing on the diff.

yes you can buy spring perches.

on a zook, you can get away with not changing the castor. but with a bigger rig, such as a 75 series cruiser, you will need to cut off the ball ends/knuckles, and rotate them. i think this is more so for steering/handling, and pinion angle. it will be almost impossible to drive with no castor. usually people just weld the new perch on top of the housing parrallel with the original underneath. changing the angle will either affect pinion angle, or castor.

with steering, best is to go hi-steer. such as what snake racing make. a lot better than dodgy "z" link, but either will work. a hi-steer kit comes with a 'rock rod', which is from pitman to knuckle, and adjustable.

usually people run SPOA with standard leaves, which are soft AND flat. maybe also with less leaves too to add to the flex situation. in my opinion, a spring over with a 3/4 rear might be a bit dangerous, as the zook will probably sit a min of 5" higher, and on a side angle or a hill climb and the 3/4 dropping out, it would be a bit tippy i would think. you can only give it a go and find out.

tail shafts should be ok, but most people i know use a 13mm, or 15mm tail shaft spacer just incase the slip joint does slip out. if you are running a 3/4 rear with SPOA, then maybe look at lengthening the tail shaft instead of using spacers. i have seen 25mm spacers being used, but not on a zook which has short shafts.

a couple of people i know have SPOA sierras, with 2" BL, and 33"s just fit with no scrubbing. but neither rig is set up for a lot of flex/articulation. for 35"s, get the gringer out and make new guards, or get a 3" BL, and some mega long death fangs (shackles). i dont even think stock zook gear lasts when abused with 33"s. so for 35"s, just get some hilux diffs.

other problems have already been mentioned, brake lines will need to be looked at, and shock mounting may need to be upgraded if you want some good flex out of it. maybe inboard rear shocks if you're running 3/4 rear.

Also what ideas do u have about engine and gearing?

Stock suzuki wont work well...


One guy i knew who had 35"s on a suzuki had a carola motor (and maybe gearbox) on the suzuki transfer case and apparantly that motor was a lot lower geared so the gearing was ok but with the power he broke both tail shafts every weekend, so it had landcruiser universals and still snapped them, it had ~ 3-5" body lift and lifted spoa and then all the drive train needed lowering to get some of the angle out of the drive shafts..

Think i only saw it once (looked really kool, box on huge wheels lol), then he sold it or dismanteled it..

Do a body swap, put a suzuki body on a larger more powerful rig with longer wheel base for larger tires, like a guy on here put a suzi body on a range rover. Or a put a suzi body on a hilux ? easier to certifie and do i would imagine.
my 2 cents.

Tim D wrote:Do a body swap, put a suzuki body on a larger more powerful rig with longer wheel base for larger tires, like a guy on here put a suzi body on a range rover. Or a put a suzi body on a hilux ? easier to certifie and do i would imagine.
my 2 cents.

Suzi body on a rangie.

Easy to certify, that would depend on which state you live in.

i have spoa front 3/4 spoa on rear on lux diffs with track bar 33x10.5 and 2in body lift.its not unstable in any situation climbing or otherwise ,ive used the front main leaf for the 1/4 spring though as it has a higher spring rate.flexes well and doesnt do any weird shite off road ie unloading [and ive been known to try and drive it on the sidewalls].youll need a track bar though or the springs wont last 5 mins my 2 cents worth hope it helps.

it is in tassie
it also has a 4age and 5 spd
and derilict
u have to run a rolla box with rolla motor!
and that was a lwb
this is short!
Philby

SiKiD_01 wrote: a couple of people i know have SPOA sierras, with 2" BL, and 33"s just fit with no scrubbing. but neither rig is set up for a lot of flex/articulation.

Maybe they aren't set up very well,
this is my SPOA sierra with NO body lift on 33x13.5 claws, and I reckon it flex's up a treat!
Peter.

droopypete wrote:

SiKiD_01 wrote: a couple of people i know have SPOA sierras, with 2" BL, and 33"s just fit with no scrubbing. but neither rig is set up for a lot of flex/articulation.

Maybe they aren't set up very well,
this is my SPOA sierra with NO body lift on 33x13.5 claws, and I reckon it flex's up a treat!
Peter.

Are you running RUF Mr. Pete?

[quote="roc box"]......its not unstable in any situation climbing or otherwise ......[quote]

So why is there someone holding onto the side of your car in your avitar?

derelict_frog wrote:Also what ideas do u have about engine and gearing?

Stock suzuki wont work well...


One guy i knew who had 35"s on a suzuki had a carola motor (and maybe gearbox) on the suzuki transfer case and apparantly that motor was a lot lower geared so the gearing was ok but with the power he broke both tail shafts every weekend, so it had landcruiser universals and still snapped them, it had ~ 3-5" body lift and lifted spoa and then all the drive train needed lowering to get some of the angle out of the drive shafts..

Think i only saw it once (looked really kool, box on huge wheels lol), then he sold it or dismanteled it..

Its far from stock....

Its a NT atm and he is puttin WT diffs under it.. theres ya extra width...

If u read my original post it tells u this!!

crankycruiser wrote:

derelict_frog wrote:Also what ideas do u have about engine and gearing?

Stock suzuki wont work well...


One guy i knew who had 35"s on a suzuki had a carola motor (and maybe gearbox) on the suzuki transfer case and apparantly that motor was a lot lower geared so the gearing was ok but with the power he broke both tail shafts every weekend, so it had landcruiser universals and still snapped them, it had ~ 3-5" body lift and lifted spoa and then all the drive train needed lowering to get some of the angle out of the drive shafts..

Think i only saw it once (looked really kool, box on huge wheels lol), then he sold it or dismanteled it..

Its far from stock....

Its a NT atm and he is puttin WT diffs under it.. theres ya extra width...

If u read my original post it tells u this!!

i thought NT and WT diff widths were about the same, and the only thing that makes them NT or WT is where the Springs mount to on the chassis. directly under the chassis is NT, and outboard is WT. is this right?

Nope.

WT is about 2" longer each side.

cheers

I might have missed something, but as yet no one has mentioned bumpstops!

Many of you might know that I known as somehting of SPOA enemy no1, but there are a few things that you definitely need to consider to get a spoa right.

Bumpstops are a major consideration. Get the location and length of you bumpstops right for the tyre size you want to run, the shock lengths, and the intended use. This is really important for both SPUA and SPOA, but normally, this gets overlooked in SPOA.

Spend the money and buy a commercial highsteer kit. I have removed enough scarysteer conversions from cars that I have put back to SPUA to know that the money spent on the snake kit is money well spent.

Get the rear driveshaft angle right. This might mean a CV joint at the back of the transfer and the diff rolled up, but I have seen droopypetes car spit a rear driveshaft, and I have seen a spoa car acutally bind the rear driveshaft under brakes (ouch!)

The other issue here is a traction bar set up. The added leverage of the spoa set up on the rear leaves will really wind them up and that makes the car walk under power and get wierd feeling on climbs. There is a whole book that could be written an tracion bar set ups, but some sort of control on the rear axle will be critical.

IMHO you will have to run a stiffer and more heavily clamped spring than you could run SPUA - as the increased COG and the leverage the axles place on the springs (especially with a 35) will really flog out a soft pack quickly, especially if you don't bumpstop correctly and overcompress the springs.

I hope this helps.

Steve.

abd wrote:got anymore pics side view pics or any pics

This vehicle is not built yet so how is he going to have pics of it.

The Picture man is back.

btw: tech note - Are u extending the whbase for this rig

:run:

cheers

sierrajim wrote: Are you running RUF Mr. Pete?

SHHHH
you are stuffing up a good argument James
Peter.

For you Steve,
fully compressed, on the bumpstops.
I could still do with some cutting

droopypete wrote:

zookjedi wrote:

crankycruiser wrote:castor? don't know but if your worried about castor for on road handling for get a "Z" link

Please explain this further.
Peter.

meaning if your going to the trouble of cutting and rotating your diff knuckles for castor for better road manners than you wouldn't than put on a "z"link with the induced bump steer etc , i ran a zlink for 1.5 years till i up graded to a snake high steer set up (due to brakeage due to big rock bad spotter) the zlink is driveable but not as confident inspiring as the histeer feel

droopypete wrote:

zookjedi wrote: 3/4 +spoa rear the thing would look like a nose down drag car

This one too.
Peter.

the height of spoa front and rear =levelish
the height of front spoa and the rear a combination of 3/4 +spoa = back riding higher than the front

zookjedi, unless you have 3/4 set up in a very unusual way, 3/4 when sitting at ride height adds no height to the car at all, the 3/4 spring sits against the chassis at normal ride height.

I have set up a few cars with 3/4 rear. I haven't seen it add any height in the cars I have set up.

Gwagensteve wrote: I have set up a few cars with 3/4 rear. I haven't seen it add any height in the cars I have set up.

Doesn't it actually lower the rear a tad, due to removal of the upper shackle mount? Asking, not telling?

christover

Yes it does, but for the purposes of the argument I wasn't going to point that out. On LWB's, the sping hanger is a fair bit taller than on a SWB so the effect is even more marked.

christover1 wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote: I have set up a few cars with 3/4 rear. I haven't seen it add any height in the cars I have set up.

Doesn't it actually lower the rear a tad, due to removal of the upper shackle mount? Asking, not telling?

christover

Spot on Chris, only by a minute amount though. You still have 1/2 the bush (radius) above the shackle bolt but no mount. So maybe 10-20mm???

sound like it going to be a wicked zook

love to do a SPOA on my WT so i can run some bigger rubber

post lots of pic cranky. love to see how you go

sierrajim wrote:

roc box wrote:......its not unstable in any situation climbing or otherwise ......

So why is there someone holding onto the side of your car in your avitar?

actually there not holding it they got a bit over excited when the rear started to climb the rock ive had it a lot further over than and it hasnt flopped as you can see by the pic its a long way over theres nothing wrong with the stability of the car just over zealous mates