Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Ive searched through endless pages and cant come up with anything very relevant at all... a few pics but no real tech.

How is the best way to make one, or how have you done yours... what parts used for the pivot points, what thickness steel?

Ill be making mine for WT zuk diffs SPOA... people who have done it for lux diffs are welcome to comment - better if this is the be all and end all of Trac-bars =)

i never had the need for 1 in my zook, made up a custom leaf pack and no more point pinion or vibes.

yeah im not sure if ill need it or not, but i couldnt find ANY info anywhere... so just in case i do need one ill know this wealth of info will reside in one spot =) hehe

When u make one Alien, I may need one also. depending how flexy the cjs end up being.

U tried in general4x4 search. I am thinking about just a radius rod type of thing off the top of the diff and not a full bar thing,

cheers

yeah mine looks like the pic.

only problem is that all the twisting power that you are trying to stop is put through the weld/angle bit.

the first one I had was thin walled pipe and it ripped the metal from around the weld, it also had no bracing like the one below! but it only broke when I nailed it out of a wambat hole and landed flat out on the rears, probly lucky it went bang, as I was looking straight up to the heavens.

this one is heavy wall, pipe, with 8mm x 40mm flat bar pracing it. with some of my superb welding! serious!
swings off a shackle, seems to be working well at the moment.

only problem was when I had the long pipe running too close to the pinion, it bent it, as the pinion flexed up enough to hit the pipe.

note: I tried to chuck a burnout infront of my house, 3rd Low, 5000 RPM 37"s.
nearly poped a wheelie, then it went bang.

I got it straightened, then cut it and changed the angle, now it won't get hit by the pinion during burnouts!

good design now its sorted, fits in a small space. and doesn't hang down to get snags.

Have a look at Sam's offroad (Oklahoma, US) he's on the web. He is the originator of the current designs for effective traction bars.

As a note though, ALL traction bar designs will put some "influence" into the springs. Depending on design and location, this might be enough to cause suspension binding or bust mounts.(or bend springs)

Greg and I did heaps of work to get the mounting points right for his traction bar, and we only have about 13mm of length variation from full compression to full droop - we could probably use a solid one piece bar, but we will be using a cable. Our engineer told us we had to draw up the suspension and its arc of motion before we set the mounts up and his advice paid dividends, but this is in a SPUA with lowered bumpstops etcetc so it is not applicable to your application. Even aftger all of this, he doesn;t really like the idea of a bar ata ll and will ok a cable just because I think he doesn't believe it will be effective.

He completly ruled out the sam's offroad style bar. (despite the fact we all know they work quite well) Any sort of bar with 2 mounting points on the diff and one at the chassis will play havoc with the springs. (when you draw it, you will see this) The diff drops almost vertically on a leaf spring suspension so that will mean that the front end of teh bar will want to move vertically too. obviously fixing this point (even with a shackle) will really try and bend the springs.

It is all a compromise, but I agree that SPOA cars REALLY need a traction bar to have acceptable climbing ability and even road manners.

Steve.

make sure the shackle is the same length as the ones used on the springs.

so the verdict is theyre awesome but they suck? lol

i'd be interested to see what overkill have produced, anyone got an overkill setup?

alien wrote:so the verdict is theyre awesome but they suck? lol

i'd be interested to see what overkill have produced, anyone got an overkill setup?

i used to have an overkill one on my old zuk

worked welll dont have pics of it any more

didnt limit flex or bind in any way

and they shackle for the track bar wasnt the same lenght as the shackle on the springs

he he old school picture
zuk diffs ferozas springs spoa

mines similar toe germo's. But i'd run the bracing all the way through. Put a new cross member in to hang the shackle from. The design is nice an compact. But i had to remake it once my springs had settled and the angles had all changed

Gwagensteve wrote:
Any sort of bar with 2 mounting points on the diff and one at the chassis will play havoc with the springs. (when you draw it, you will see this) The diff drops almost vertically on a leaf spring suspension so that will mean that the front end of teh bar will want to move vertically too. obviously fixing this point (even with a shackle) will really try and bend the springs.

Steve.

I agree Steve, when you draw it, it is obvious, you can't argue with physics.
Peter.

does the shackle allow enough twist on the bar when articulating??? i would have thought it would limit travel through lack of flex???

alien wrote:does the shackle allow enough twist on the bar when articulating??? i would have thought it would limit travel through lack of flex???

you need some sort of twist in the bar to allow flex

so far this set up is working well, but time will tell of course

some people use a hyme joint or other pivotty things, some use a tube inside a tube, to allow for twist and fore/aft movement.

alien wrote:Ive searched through endless pages and cant come up with anything very relevant at all... a few pics but no real tech.

How is the best way to make one, or how have you done yours... what parts used for the pivot points, what thickness steel?

Ill be making mine for WT zuk diffs SPOA... people who have done it for lux diffs are welcome to comment - better if this is the be all and end all of Trac-bars =)

What about this one
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=49078

Awesome stuff! thats great =)

MARKx4 wrote:

alien wrote:Ive searched through endless pages and cant come up with anything very relevant at all... a few pics but no real tech.

How is the best way to make one, or how have you done yours... what parts used for the pivot points, what thickness steel?

Ill be making mine for WT zuk diffs SPOA... people who have done it for lux diffs are welcome to comment - better if this is the be all and end all of Trac-bars =)

What about this one
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=49078

Have the same on mine, seems to work well with the limited testing i've been able to do so far.

redzook wrote:

alien wrote:so the verdict is theyre awesome but they suck? lol

i'd be interested to see what overkill have produced, anyone got an overkill setup?

i used to have an overkill one on my old zuk

worked welll dont have pics of it any more

didnt limit flex or bind in any way

and they shackle for the track bar wasnt the same lenght as the shackle on the springs
he he old school picture
zuk diffs ferozas springs spoa

mine neither and it works perfect

Quote from 4wd monthly August 2004 page 119 "article Track bar design and construction" Most traction bars under leaf sprung vehicles have three things in common:a shackle of equal length to the shackle fitted to the spring; a high-flex joint that allows the axle to articulate without bind; and two links that triangulate to control the axle. Without these three elements your traction bar will do more harm than good to your ride and suspension performance.

Rhett wrote:Quote from 4wd monthly August 2004 page 119 "article Track bar design and construction" Most traction bars under leaf sprung vehicles have three things in common:a shackle of equal length to the shackle fitted to the spring; a high-flex joint that allows the axle to articulate without bind; and two links that triangulate to control the axle. Without these three elements your traction bar will do more harm than good to your ride and suspension performance.

mines been in there for 2 years hasnt caused any drama yet .whats the theory behind it dont think tim had any probs either his car seemed pretty well sorted.my rear shackles are longer than the one on the track bar [is standard zook shackle].my springs condition is as good now as before i fitted it .it doesnt bind or do anything un toward either i did alot of testing when i made it though .as for he fact of "will cause damage"i wouldnt agree it hasnt hurt mine and it gets driven pretty hard.no ofence rhett it just hasnt been my experience .

as Gwagon Steve said, draw your suspension on paper and it will be obvious.
and don't think just because your diff is going up and down that your track bar isn't influencing your springs.
Peter.
PS, of course coils would solve all these probs. (and create some more )

droopypete wrote:as Gwagon Steve said, draw your suspension on paper and it will be obvious.
and don't think just because your diff is going up and down that your track bar isn't influencing your springs.
Peter.
PS, of course coils would solve all these probs. (and create some more )

i never said it didnt influence them i said mine works as for coils my leaves work just fine thanks

i still dont understand how it would affect the leaves? so long as theres enough movement to allow for the shackles to move and hence the leaves to articulate, there shouldnt be a problem??

the bar is going to stay at the same angle to the diff all the time.

it will cause probs when the whole diff move up and down, ie not just twisting side to side, but compres and droop.

the bar has two atatchment pionts which don't allow much movement, which is what you want otherwise your diff will still rotate under acceleration. axle wrap.

so as the diff tries to drop on your springs, the trac bar doesn't want to swing down in the same arc.

thats why the other guys are saying to draw it.

its like having control arms that are going to swing in an arc, hense the reason people with long travel want long arms.
and having leaves that are swing a different arc.

don't get confused with the use of control arms on a leave spring truck, like big zook, with double shackles.

just draw it up and the arcs and the way the mounts will want things to move and you can see it.

I have dribbled on, but they do work, but like all mods there is a comprimise.
enjoy ashley

haha ok now i understand =)

the trac bar tries to rotate the diff as it pivots from it, but the springs just want to go basically straight down,
a shackle doesn't provide drop, even when mounted flat, or on less angle than 90'
hope it helps.
thats my understanding of it.
and my shackle is mounted nearly flat, __ not \

roc box wrote:

droopypete wrote:as Gwagon Steve said, draw your suspension on paper and it will be obvious.
and don't think just because your diff is going up and down that your track bar isn't influencing your springs.
Peter.
PS, of course coils would solve all these probs. (and create some more )

i never said it didnt influence them i said mine works as for coils my leaves work just fine thanks

Not meaning to get picky here, but you didn't say it worked fine, you said "it didn't bind", when someting binds it dosn't mean it can't move, it means it's movment is restricted, if you are happy with the range of motion you get from yours, great, but I doubt that you have the same amount of travel as you would with the bar removed, but with the bar removed your springs would be prezles in a week so that s not an option, as germo says in a following post "like all mods there is a comprimise"
Peter.
PS, my track bar sux

actually pete like i said i tested alot and it doesnt hinder travel at all.[yes i have tested the theory]and to rhett if you look in the same issue of 4wd monthly youll see matt pisanis black zook look underneeth the back shackles are longer than the track bar shackle too does that mean his track bar was incorrect as he has alot of experience in 4wd modification and if i didnt work i dont think hed be using it .ps pete i didnt say it worked fine you were right i said it works perfect look up a few posts

roc box wrote:.ps pete i didnt say it worked fine you were right i said it works perfect look up a few posts

What a cheap shot

Rhett wrote:Quote from 4wd monthly August 2004 page 119 "article Track bar design and construction" Most traction bars under leaf sprung vehicles have three things in common:a shackle of equal length to the shackle fitted to the spring; a high-flex joint that allows the axle to articulate without bind; and two links that triangulate to control the axle. Without these three elements your traction bar will do more harm than good to your ride and suspension performance.

ok 4wd monthly knows everything

we have 3 examples in this thread that shows otherwise

maybe if there was a foot difference between the shackle length it might hurt but when ur talkin 1 2 or 3 inch it wont effect it