Outer Limits 4x4 Board

just a question, how dificult would it be to get an 85 sierra ute engineered with a comodore V6 and auto it currently has standard w/t axles and brakes.... obviously the brakes would be the largest prob with engineering but what else would i have to worrie about

note im in WA
so this rig would be ok upuntill the coppers come across it

i dont think u will have a chance in hell regoing it here, and ur goin to need to upgrade more than the brakes.

being in wa. Good luck.

Biggest prob will be brakes and chassis strength. Being a box design will help it. Will prob need gq or hilux diffs for brakes. May be easier to what doozer did with a zook body onto another chassis like a rangie. Maybe run rangie chassis,v6 commo,patrol diffs

Would be easier with the GV v6 being smaller capacity but still hard to do.

cheers

Nic

yeah just wondering as there is a v6 85 zook in the todays quokka in the commercials. the bloke reconds hes had no prob with the drive line coz its an auto. its licenced but not with the v6 with standard zook brakes. I was considering it but after thinking about it im not going to bother as it has no engine braking, and not to sure about how the auto box would change in 4wd conitions as there controlled by ecu. i can see you needing to stay in 1st an 2nd only to hve it up shift just before it comes under load at the base of a steep hill or bog, throw a 3rd-1st gear change rev up to 4,000 wheel spin and bog down when you least want it

how is payment and paper work organised when buying a vehicle say over in nsw and would freight to wa be expencive

PM Gutless. He built a 95 stockman with commo v6, after a lot of effort, couldn't get engineered, realised it was too heavy, and sold it all for bits.

i called the bloke whos selling it he must be getting alot of people looking at it with no intention of buying it i told him i would think about it a possibly call him back. he's asking $8,000 and if you cross roads with the wrong cop its all over

does that car have to weight a certain weight in proportion to the engine or something?

oops repeated

thats the same one i was going to say as it is supposably engineered and rego'd in perth. be scary with zook brakes and more weight under the front. i helped move a commo v6, not light compared to zook stuff.

cheers

Been there done that.

WAY too heavy for a zook. It makes the handling FAR worse. Bigger brakes are needed for the extra weight, not the extra power. they only have 125KW, so for the extra weight issues you get, there are better ways to achieve similar power and keep the wieght in the front end under control.

has anybody considered the 2.7 quad cam 32v all alloy v6 out of the grand vitara XL-7 ? heaps light and heaps of grunt around 120KW with great torque and a light engine that comes in both auto and manual and it's still SUZUKI !!

oozuk wrote:has anybody considered the 2.7 quad cam 32v all alloy v6 out of the grand vitara XL-7 ? heaps light and heaps of grunt around 120KW with great torque and a light engine that comes in both auto and manual and it's still SUZUKI !!

actually this motor has 135kw and 250Nm. Very nice motor, but the price of a XL-7 front cut is more than the entire V6 commy conversion.... I considered that before I did the commy swap.

Why not the 2L v6 vit motor. you'd have a better shot at getting rego with that motor, and its all alloy.

If you really want a V6, then consider something like the all alloy Mistubishi V6's instead of the Buick iron boat anchors that they call Holden.

Kaos wrote:If you really want a V6, then consider something like the all alloy Mistubishi V6's instead of the Buick iron boat anchors that they call Holden.

You mean tractor motors


Would prolly be easier with zook parts, aslo would be easier using a V6 from a RWD vehicle. water outlets etc are in better locations, engine mounts etc are more suitable for re-use, and you will have less trouble finding a gearbox that fits, and or making adapters...

Its not that hard in NSW , theres a few gettting around -paulie;s , otis ,
and Mad4x4, the later having chev v6 .

Rta guy down here told me long ago not to let your engineer or the rta get the zook mixed up with a passenger derivative , the soft top is classed as a ute here which is light commercial and comes under a totally
different set of rules ,

The basic requirments are pollution gear to the adr stamped on the plate,
brakes are required to be as big or bigger than the vehicle the motor came from ,

the way its stated , azooks disk diameter is a big as a xw GT
but the calipers are n't but thats what the ask for so , ny one for a
351 windsor with a big stick ,chamber headers and a , pair of gas reaserch mixers (need the gas to slide the emmisions adr )

First things first though think hard about what you want from your thing
ive owned zooks for year's the chassis flex heaps , add big rubber ect and there like jelly on the road , the more you do to gain Offroad ability usually flaws the on road ability.

To make it work in a zook chassis , you will need to start with a bare chass and laminate it , But its not as easy as it sounds
( Paul pisanis is the best example of this, weighs in at around 1470kgif i remeber )

For pure off road ability and reliability you can,t really beat the stock motor or the 1600 conversion ,
abiuld like redzooks (tim) or some of the vic guys low and rubbererd zooks are hard to beat . Lux, 60s, mq diffs a series 1 or 3 rockhopper.
and the other esentials and bingo.

(Ps You need to be carful or you could end up with wierd junk like mine )

ok ok in know im waffling agian


Larry.

Gutless What did yours end up wieght wise ? did you know the bias ?

I agree with everything except:

Dozoor wrote:the more you do to gain Offroad ability usually flaws the on road ability.

Whilst you are right that is usually the way it ends up, I actually think that pretty much the same qualities that are desirable off road are desirable on road:

progressive handling
low COG
good weight balance
stability
consistent and predictable suspension behavour
correct shock rates
etcetcetc

I just think that most people give up on road ability once they chase off road performance.

Even my G is a good example. It is under sprung and damped, so it is squirrely on road. Funnily enough, it is squirrelly off road too, at the same lateral G's. the only difference is that on road those lateral forces are from cornering, whereas off road they are from angles.

Sorry if this is off topic, but I really think that cars that are crap to drive on road will be crap to drive off road too, it's just that if it has a lot of traction and or travel we will ignore almost any vice because we value these things over any other.

I'm sure you agree that the cars with more moderate set ups are often the nicest to drive in the bush, even if they can't acutally drive the biggest obstacle or have the biggest tyre, (or in relation to this thread, the most hp)

Dozoor wrote:
Gutless What did yours end up wieght wise ? did you know the bias ?

Bout 1300Kg's with the bundy's, v6, auto, and 75 series alloy transfer.

Bout 70/30 to the front

however it climber brilliantly, and handled downward inclines quite well, it just didn't like driving much faster than about 30km/h

Its a LOT of weight to chuck in there for only 120kw and 300Nm

a 2.7 All alloy XL-7 V6 from a zook had 135kw, and 250Nm, and would shave an easy 150 kg's off the driveline weight

Gutless wrote:

Dozoor wrote:
Gutless What did yours end up wieght wise ? did you know the bias ?

Bout 1300Kg's with the bundy's, v6, auto, and 75 series alloy transfer.

is that a guess ? or u actually had it weighed?

mine is 1380kg and still runs the zook motor box and tcase

That was on 33's, with no petrol or passengers, and I may have had the fibreglass roof off at time of weighing

With me and some gas it was about 1450kg

But it was VERY light in the a$$, and my once LWB chassis was actually shorter than a SWB chasis ( finished a foot or so after the ute cab)

Gwagensteve wrote:I agree with everything except:

Dozoor wrote:the more you do to gain Offroad ability usually flaws the on road ability.

Sorry if this is off topic, but I really think that cars that are crap to drive on road will be crap to drive off road too, it's just that if it has a lot of traction and or travel we will ignore almost any vice because we value these things over any other.

I'm sure you agree that the cars with more moderate set ups are often the nicest to drive in the bush, even if they can't acutally drive the biggest obstacle or have the biggest tyre, (or in relation to this thread, the most hp)

Your right there Steve ,


Gutless ,
seems to be the wieght of most of the V6 ones around , Allthough i think That otis one would be on the beefy side of the av .
We where suprised when we wieghed mine to see where the motor sits
because of the long arse adapter , that the bias was Fr57% R43%
Think its due to where we put the bod on the chassis,

Larry.

mine is a comm v6 and auto. 2500mm extended wheel base. hilux diffs coils all round 35 creepys. soft top cab with ute chop and tray and weighs 1700kgs. ballenced real nice and will sit on 100ks easy and once u get it off road its awsome. the comm v6 has so much down low torque. its just really easy to drive and suprisingly well behaved on road

bigzook1 wrote:mine is a comm v6 and auto. 2500mm extended wheel base. hilux diffs coils all round 35 creepys. soft top cab with ute chop and tray and weighs 1700kgs. ballenced real nice and will sit on 100ks easy and once u get it off road its awsome. the comm v6 has so much down low torque. its just really easy to drive and suprisingly well behaved on road

2500mm - 2.5m extended wheelbase?

since last year alot of engineers have been following dotars guidlines. the rules for engines under this are based on vehicle tare wieght x 2 etc = engine cc. for example a vehicle that has an empty weight of 1000 kg's or less can only x 2 thier tare weight which equals a 2000 cc motor.if it is forced inducted than x that by 1.5 instead. as vehicles are heavier these rules change. but down here in a sierra they will pretty much limit you to a 2 litre.

bigzook1 wrote:mine is a comm v6 and auto. 2500mm extended wheel base. hilux diffs coils all round 35 creepys. soft top cab with ute chop and tray and weighs 1700kgs. ballenced real nice and will sit on 100ks easy and once u get it off road its awsome. the comm v6 has so much down low torque. its just really easy to drive and suprisingly well behaved on road

legal?

mate WA is nearly impossible to get things done.

I would however, if you are serious about building one, contact "Jack Apgar" - he's the engineer that got my zuk passed. 92461600.

But only call him once you're dead serious, he will not appreciate time wasting, but will entertain a serious discussion about heavily modifying your zuk.

yeah it was a short wheel base extended to 2500mm. 98 inchers. yeah all legal on 35s and lux diffs and v6