Outer Limits 4x4 Board

This is my first posting as I am a "newbie" I think I am onto my 2nd rangie and already have the love /hate thing going The first was stock as a rock 84 4dr but was low on old springs Ended up putting in std kings and changed tyres to bridgestone 7.50 x 16 jeep service and had some fun

Good points was that it could climb well and handle reasonably rough terrain without slicing the sides out of the tyres
Bad points it could only look at water from a distance and if i gave it hard time through the 3spd 727 auto it was cooking

2nd one i bought with a 10"spring lift (settled down to 8") and 3" body lift
Looked schmik right up until the point I rolled it Yeah I know *#%+ing stupid

Heres where I need ur thoughts I have to rebuild and i have been looking at the topics and responses and i have a coulple of questions
The spacers for the body lift are metal and the responses to lifts say metal/alum But why not neoprene/urethane because I was wondering if you can buy this and turn them down I bought some run-out stock of falcon XD rear leaf spring bushes and they gave a perfect 2"lift for an MQ shorty ($20 for 8 at supercheap)

Cooling so far is good for the 4.2lt stroker motor run through the 4spd manual but I have looked at the ef falcon radiator set-up and i've read that some people have used the twin fans but what about the whole radiator and fans(dimensions and inlet/outlet seem like they may adapt well) What about V8 fairlane of the same make I'm told alloy radiators can't be beat from out of Bemers and the like

Springs are an endless argument but i don't know enough about them the ones on now are apart from being 2high are 2stiff. What are parabolic springs what is the best suggestion for a supple spring vs an unduly weak spring Is it feasible to cut and add to the spring recesses on the chassis to accomodate longer springs without xtra height (i drank a 6pac while laying under the car)

While the 9" and welder's out is lowering the motor and drive train down an 1" or so for lower centre of gravity ridiculous

Whats legal Im going for a 2"body and 2"spring lift with guard cuts and flares running 35" BFG muddies I have rear mounted swing out tyre carrier and bullbar both ARB and at this point no rego If and when I get to QDOT (from QLD) what should be on and what should be off

I hope someone can help me out thanx

10" spring lift ????????????????????????????????????????????

No wonder it rolled.....

I'm still finding my way around on this site (tips) Yeah 2350mm to roof when I got it The back diff blew through the housing on a hill climb Caught it on vid going over

10" spring, 3" body. What size were the tyres on it?

35's would have made the overall lift 16"!!!

Where are pics and Vid!

This is not your old rangie is it?

One hell of a lft there.

10inch spring lift must have handled like a dog (castor totaly up the shxx)
What was the front drive shaft nasty angles here.

IMO run steel lift blocks. 50m round 50mm long 11mm hole.

Spring rates are really dependent on the loads you want to carry.
Many options available here.
I am at present running Rear 220lb x 18 and 220lb x 16 in front.
Steel BB Holden engine. Rear swing away carrier and rear bar.
THis set gives aprox 65 mm extra lift.

Parabolics are leaf springs. you want to stick with the coils.

Legalities of lifts see the RTA in your state.
Generally you can get away with 50mm x 50mm lift but getting harder without engineers certs.

Aluminium Radiators have aprox 50% better cooling than copper but require good electrics or electrolisis can be a problem but anodes can help cure this as will earthing all components, A custom Alum rad is about $800.00 bolts straight in.

I run alumin rad and EL ford fans with no problems.

If you are going to cut the spring perches then why not go alll the way and fit coil over shocks.

Michael.

yeah leafs suck. i can't validate that but i don't have them so they do.
let's see some snaps of your rolled rangie, all in favour say woohoo.
for legalities mate there's a bloke floating around this place who is a auto engineer, he'll get on to you soon, he loves answering heaps of really hard legal type questions so think up some real tough ones.

woohoo

woohoo

woo fukking hoo!!

WOO HOO TOO

10 inchs fukked me with a nissan .. i wonder how dramas i have had with a 6 inch lift i need specs and pics , 10 inch lift think of the rubber forget 35's and 4.1's 45's and 4.7's here i come

Woo hoo too

Only just had the computer for a few weeks I have just normal still photos and a vid on tape but how do i get it onto here Was on Pg27 of the feb 2003 edition of JUST 4X4 thats how I bought it

Bought it off the pic and had it transported to Qld and it was everything I had been told and i was stoked Just mucked around by the transport company and got it a week late The fri nite before we were going to go up and watch a winch challenge event over the week-end If only I had chosen to take our stocko GQ lwb

Opted for the rangie

Yeah it drove like a pig suspension on full tilt if I wanted adrenalin I just had to try and take her over 80kph though the 4.2 stroker (by john davies nsw) is a sweet motor The plan was that the money had been spent on the lift and accessories already all I had to do was bring her back to legal to get it registered and work out what I wanted from there

But thats history I am thinking that do it once do it rite with the rebuild
Pull the body off (done it with the MQ shorty to change to a gal chassis)
and while its off cut and paste(weld) all changes to the chassis while its easy to access

Thats why I am wondering is it too much effort to lower the drive train the 1" or so when you consider the weight and the option for lift later The radius/trailing arms mounts are a given to be raised a bit

The rebuild in reality will have a time frame of approx 4mths (Just sold the house theres 1mth, Got to get a new shed put up to do this in theres another mth and leaves me 2mths for the project, wont enter money into the equation or it could take yrs) So I am finding out as much as I can till then. This is a great site for this

Without pissing in ur pockets too much Michael HSV Rangie and Landy_Man seem to have tried and tested a few ideas not excluding anyone else of course

Can I ask for more info on coil over shocks, benifits, costs & installation

What are ur thoughts on the neoprene idea for the 2" body lift. When mine went over the whole lot bent I know there are forces applied when u roll that u cant prevent and hey presto damage

But I looked at the 3" soild metal spacer with a 40/50mm dia sitting on the 25/30mm dia spacer/washer that is welded on the chassis mounts and it doesn't look strong normally. If u can buy a 50mm dia length or neoprene or similar and turn out a recess to sit over that 25/30mm spacer/washer and cut to whatever height u want ur body lift (x8) is it worth it ?

Was the Load Leveller a stupid idea. Like their a/cond and wiring (Lucas the prince of darkness) it needs some oz influence to make it rite

I have only vague thoughts on a soloution at this time but a mono shock type of set-up may be adaptable. My thoughts were that the L/L should enable a wider choice of a spring that will allow the max axle articulation while still meeting the day to day requirements of the vehicles owner. Loaded/Unloaded, spare wheel carrier,kiddy commuter or whatever

Am i barkin up the wrong tree

Loose the load leveler, once you raise the car its of no use, also restricts wheel travel.

Keeping the load leveler and running tall soft springs will make car very tippy but as I said above once you increase the hight of springs the LL does not do it job properly remove it.

A guy in south Africa fitted a coil spring in there when then boge died, often thought about fitting an airbag in its place withincab controls for when I want to push the axle down but never went with it.

I still prefer steel spacers for a body lift (bore out one end to fit over the boss on the out rigger if you want) no mater how you do it steel is stonger. I would only go with a 50mm body lift and 50-75mm spring lift unless you really want some tall rubber under it.

Coil overs big $$$. never tried it but its supposedly the best option around.
Will require complete rebuild of shock mounts and towers, rears will also the top mount to be set inside the cargo area.

As for lowering the driveline to much work lol. but doable.

For your links fabricate new rear links and use a ball joint spacer or aquire a swivel too replace the ball joint. Front make or bend existing radias arms to return the geometry to std spec.

Michael.

When it comes to body lifts in Qld the limit is 50mm. This 50 mm is body and suspension lift combined. Each lift is approved vehicle by vehicle. You will need to submit a "Application to Modify" to Queensland Transport. One of the cheapest ways to make acceptable lift block is a decent wall thickness round pipe and weld a heavy duty washer to the top and bottom. I have seen some done using large shocky washers. Use new longer high tensile bolts and nylock nuts to keep every one happy. Dont for get to take into account brake line, steering shaft engaged lengths, towbar mounting (if it goes to chassis and body), rear seatbelt anchorages.

I would accept hard uretane bushes but not nolothane. They have too much give and would reduce the rigidity of the vehicle.

A lot of people say 'how would they know if the vehicle has been lifted or not?'. Every vehicle at it's time of certification has the dimension from the centre of the wheel to the guard listed by the manufacturer. These dimensions are available online for later vehicle but not for early ones like your RR. The transport departments do still have access to them.
For example the link below is the certification document for a new RR 4.6 HSE.

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/106 ... RS2476.cmd

If you want to find this out for another vehicle go to

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/pls/wwws ... ify_Search

and in the section labelled "Approval Number" type in the approval number that appears on your compliance plate. This will only work for late model vehicles.


That said, if you have the approval for your lift kit in the glove box when pulled up on the roadside and you springs are a bit over (I will assume 10 inches will be noticed) you may not get scrutinised too heaviy. Doesn't make it legal though.

That said... 10 inches of lift must have felt like your door handle were going to scrape around a corner.

I'll go through the other questions later. Got to go now.

auto_eng wrote:I would accept hard uretane bushes but not nolothane. They have too much give and would reduce the rigidity of the vehicle.

"nolothane" is just a brand name isn't it, the bushes are still made from polyurethane? So surely there is the same range of stiffnesses in "nolothane" branded bushes as in other polyurethane bushes?

If you are using a non-metal spacer, wouldn't something even stiffer like nylon, uhdpe or glass reinforced teflon be better?

Ben,

You are 100% right with Nolothane/Urethane question. What I shoud have said is that you can use a High Density Polyethylene (HDPE). My mistake there. HDPE can be purchased in standard size and you just drill a hole down the middle.

Nylon can be used but this is genereally more expensive.

If you want to get fancy you can fit Tailmaster items as in the piccie below but a solid block work just as well.

does that mean my rangie can only be 50mm higher from centre of wheel to top of gaurd? what crap.

what's the distance on a 84 rangie

does that mean my rangie can only be 50mm higher from centre of wheel to top of gaurd? what crap.

what's the distance on a 84 rangie

That's right. 50mm the limit. Note I am talking QLD only. Some other states will allow more.

I've tried to get 'one-off' exemptions but no go so far. If your RR was registered in NSW and you had an engineers report to back up the lift you may have a chance as QT have what they call a 'reciprocal registraion agreement ' where they will accept modifications done and accepted in other states even though they lie outside what is accepted in QLD. There is not rule as to what is accepted and what is rejected too. Tubbs are a definate out but that's all I can say for sure. Bit of a Mickey Mouse system.

I can't tell you what the measurement is for a 84 RR but perhaps someone else here will know.

Here's where I get to correct myself. I have just been on the phone to QT and they have said you can do body lift up to 50mm and a suspension lift to give a total lift of 50mm + suspenison lift.

The susupension lift is limited as follows
"The suspension travel in the bump or rebound mode must not be altered by more than one-third of that measurement as specified by the original manufacturer" (see engineering instruction LV.10.05/00)

Previously I said the combined body and suspension lift could only be 50mm total. This is what they told be last time I tried to get a one off exemption on a vehicle that had a 3 inch body lift. I asked them to allow that vehicle to have it's 3 inch accepted on the proviso that the vehicle would have zero suspension lift. This was denied and I was told the combine lift heights were capped at 50mm also. It seems now that is not the case.

vic roads also only allows 1/3 difference in bump stop clearnace....

so if it is 3" to start with, then you can only have 4" clearance... i.e. 1" lift...

do they say anything about bumpstop modification...i.e. can you extend you bumpstops to compensate for this...

perhaps soft bumpstops to help with "stuffage'

Thx for all the replies, I think I need to focus my attentions back to the basics. If I get the overall drift rite it seems that things haven't changed much over the years. For a hassle free new rego in QLD max lift will be somewhere in the 70mm range (50mm body & 0-20 mm spring) slap on some 31/32 x 10s, get your rego, mod out and run the gauntlet.

What has been the general experience with comprehensive and compulsory third party insurance claims. Also has anyone been hassled alot by vehicle/machinery inspections when your vehicle has obvious mods. I have driven past inspection points where noticably some off roaders have been waiting for or loaded onto tilt trays.

Favouring a body lift from 50mm dia solid aluminium rod (easy to drill and cut) with HDPE the option. Explore further the option of modifying the spring towers to fit longer springs without compromising the centre of gravity and contravening QDOT specs. (Any fitter and turner/boiler marker rangie owners with facilities to fabricate something like this?)

Coil over shocks are a real American phenomenom aren't they? Have seen modified offroad pick-ups with 4 or 5 per wheel looks tuff but I haven't read any feeback on handling/characteristics. Years ago I used to know a group that went to USA to buy parts cheap as a sideline as they went there for business regardless.

Thanks Michael for your response on the load leveller but I would like to invite more feedback on this issue. Current products on the market include height adjustable air bag/shocks, poly airbag suspension and coil over shocks? and may readily adapt as a load leveller. As I still favour longer springs with a rating similar to standards with possible twin shocks to counter roll. This may sound a little radical but achievable with minor problems and a little perserverance.

Can I get further information on the rear links. Who fabricates rear links and how much? Are the ball joint links something like the photos I've seen posted in the rangie section somewhere?

Will be posting some before and after photos of when I rolled it shortly. If anyone in the Caboolture area has the equipment to help me post a short vid please get in touch.

auto_eng wrote:Here's where I get to correct myself. I have just been on the phone to QT and they have said you can do body lift up to 50mm and a suspension lift to give a total lift of 50mm + suspenison lift.

The susupension lift is limited as follows
"The suspension travel in the bump or rebound mode must not be altered by more than one-third of that measurement as specified by the original manufacturer" (see engineering instruction LV.10.05/00)

Previously I said the combined body and suspension lift could only be 50mm total. This is what they told be last time I tried to get a one off exemption on a vehicle that had a 3 inch body lift. I asked them to allow that vehicle to have it's 3 inch accepted on the proviso that the vehicle would have zero suspension lift. This was denied and I was told the combine lift heights were capped at 50mm also. It seems now that is not the case.

Pretty typical for Qld Transport. Call them 3 times and ask the same question and get 3 different answers.

So if the lift is measured from the rim to the guard, if you trim your guards they will say you lifted your truck when you have not!

Surely they have a better way than this???????????????????????

In regards body lifts, I used 100x100mm nylon in my GQ for 3 years and it didnt have any problems. Didnt come loose and no cracking of the floor. But I also checked the bolts every service.

auto_eng, is there an way in QLD to get rego as a hand built or limited production vehicle instead of a modified vehicle?

It is a bit of a grey area when it comes to defining a vehicle as a modified production vehicle or a 'new' vehicle. The usualy response is "build the vehicle then show us". If the vehicle is classed as a new vehicle it will have to meet all Australian Design Rules (ADR's) applicable at the current date.

For a ute, other wise know as " light goods vehicle" that won't be too bad as there are no compliacted crash protect rules applicable so long as the vehicle is over 2700kg gross vehicle mass.

What did you have in mind? Let me know what you want to achieve an I can tell you more about what ADR's you will have to meet.

Another avenue I have been exploring recently is second stage manufacturing. This is only for new vehicle. This is handled at a Federal Level and provided the vehicle meets all the ADR's after modification you could class your mods as a second stage manufactue and fit another compliance plate. This is how Ambulance vehicles and similar are processed.

I would like to fit a set of Portal Axle Drops to my car NO SUSPENSION OR BODY LIFT.... what do you reackon QT would say about that .

If only............... ow if only..............................