Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all,
As you can probably guess I drive a 40 series cruiser which is great as an off roader but horrible as a DD. Im in a position to buy a 86 Rangie that is absolutely perfect with everything I want except that it has a whine coming from the transfer case. Being a 86 5 speed, Im assuming it has the LT77 g/box with the LT230T t/case? Please correct me if Im wrong.

How easy is it to rebuild these transfer cases?
Is it expensive (ballpark figures would be much appreciated)?
Am I better off looking for a complete second hand unit? ($?)
or,
Should I keep looking for another vehicle? (bearing in mind I can get it at a very good price).
Sorry about all the questions guys but I know very little about RRs.

Cheers

A good LT230 should be reasonably cheap - I have seen them go for 300-500 quite frequently. Alternatively, if the gears are fine it should be a cheap rebuild.

The LT77 is another matter - are you sure that isn't the problem? When in good condition an LT77 is not a bad box, but is it is buggered, you may as well buy an R380 or ZF auto to fit instead.

AFAIK the gearbox is ok, just the transfer is shot. Thanks for the info, Im going to check it out again today and if it is all good Im probably going to buy it. Then start hunting for the parts.

What specifcally is wrong with the transfer case?

If gears in lt230 are ok then easy fix.

bearings and seals from bearing supply shop,
gaskets from any rover parts supply.
compression sleeve from rover parts supply (intermed gear with taper bearings.)

Parts cost about $250.00

easy do in a day including 45 min drive each way to pick up bearings seals.

Michael.

red90 wrote:What specifcally is wrong with the transfer case?

It whines. Idler shaft bearing?

How much does it whine? They all whine.

If it is more than normal, maybe a bad bearing or maybe one out of adjustment.

NTW, you can download a full service manual here: http://www.landrover.ee/est/varia/downloads/gearbox.htm

red90 wrote:How much does it whine? They all whine.

If it is more than normal, maybe a bad bearing or maybe one out of adjustment.

NTW, you can download a full service manual here: http://www.landrover.ee/est/varia/downloads/gearbox.htm

That is what I was going to say, you need to get someone else to have a listen, the lt95 in my two door used to whine something shocking but was in pretty good nick,

How many Ks on the car - that should be a pretty good indication of the condition, check on here and find out how to do the oiler modification for it. I will have a search

Tom

That is a point.

BEFORE buying it, pull the PTO cover and inspect the gearbox output splines. It is common for them to wear out. If that happens, the repair costs are fairly high. Plus it ruins your day when you lose all drive in the middle of bucktussel.....

RaginRover wrote: How many Ks on the car

240 000km.

Thanks for the link, very helpful. Thanks also for the tip on checking the splines, will definitely suss it out. Am not too fussed if the transfer or gearbox or both are rooted as I have a bit of experience rebuilding and fitting them (40 series 4 speed + v8 + heavy right boot= you get the picture).
I was thinking of a R380 conversion but if the gearbox isnt on the way out I might let sleeping dogs lie. Is there much difficulty, fab work, adapter plates etc. with the gearbox swap or is it pretty much a bolt up affair? Not too keen on autos so the ZF is out as an option.
All the help is really appreciated. thanks boys.

ZF is the best they have ever made IMO - fantastic on and off road

But either way it doesn't matter - I can't help you on the R380 conversion but no doubt others can, check that she doesn't have a blown head gasket from the ususal signs, water in oil, oil in water, the old drinking glass over the oil filler although the engine will probably have developed a fair degree of blowby by now, oily air intake hose will give that away as the breather is vented back into the system before the throttle butterfly - putting that into a separate catch can might make her run a bit better - at least give it some air that is easier to burn.

Tom

Me and a mechanic mate gave it a good going over yesterday and everything is sweet (or near enough) with the exception of the transfer case. Doesnt even have any (major) oil leaks .
An exhaust bracket needs tightening and as it has been sitting idle for a while Ill probably give it a full service, but apart from that it seems in really good nick (touch wood).
Im leaning towards buying it, especially after looking into rebuild/buying options on the LT230.

v840 wrote:Me and a mechanic mate gave it a good going over yesterday and everything is sweet (or near enough) with the exception of the transfer case. Doesnt even have any (major) oil leaks .
An exhaust bracket needs tightening and as it has been sitting idle for a while Ill probably give it a full service, but apart from that it seems in really good nick (touch wood).
Im leaning towards buying it, especially after looking into rebuild/buying options on the LT230.

sounds like a winner, grab her - the guys in the states seem to get between 240,000 miles and 300,000miles before rebuilds (384K Km - 480K Km) at least that is the impression I get from pirate4x4

Tom

RaginRover wrote:

v840 wrote:Me and a mechanic mate gave it a good going over yesterday and everything is sweet (or near enough) with the exception of the transfer case. Doesnt even have any (major) oil leaks .
An exhaust bracket needs tightening and as it has been sitting idle for a while Ill probably give it a full service, but apart from that it seems in really good nick (touch wood).
Im leaning towards buying it, especially after looking into rebuild/buying options on the LT230.

sounds like a winner, grab her - the guys in the states seem to get between 240,000 miles and 300,000miles before rebuilds (384K Km - 480K Km) at least that is the impression I get from pirate4x4

Tom

Yeah mine had 320k when i did the gearbox and the transfer case was in top condition but did bearings all the same while it was out..

Sweet. Going back this evening to make an offer. Hopefully be a rangie owner by bedtime tonight
Cheers again for the advice and help fellas, I'll let you know how it goes

V840,

I'll just add my bit on LT230's...

The one in my RRC came from a County diesel, and now has a 430,000km life span with NO rebuild. The previous owner changed the oil every ten minutes I think, which I believe is the main reason it's still in good nick.
Some of the early LT 230's , the LT230R (For 'roller' bearings)for instance, as fitted to export 84 and 85 model RR's had thrust washers and spacer shims on the intermediate shaft with roller bearings, not unlike the LT95 4spd. I believe these are a better proposition for high loads, but are much more involved to set up because of shim thickness selection for end float etc. The later ones have a crushable spacer between tapered bearings and are a piece of cake to rebuild. The way to check this is to see if the intermediate shaft at the rear of the transfer case has a staked nut or a keeper plate holding the shaft in position. The keeper plate is the early one, the staked nut is the later LT 230T ( For 'tapered' roller bearings) type, and appears on almost every RR 86 on and Disco from 91 on. The Defender has the same Transfer case but has 1.410:1 high range gears, unlike the RR which can range from 1.003:1 all the way to 1.223:1 high range.
Have you also thought that the whine may be front differential?
The noise can sometimes be confusing as to where it is coming from because of the close proximity to the drivers floor area, and some transference along the front driveshaft is possible also.

Hope the new purchase comes off, make sure to get it filthy ASAP and post up snaps...

JC

Well, I am now officially a rangie owner! Picked her up yesterday and have been driving it ever since. For the price I paid I like to think I got an absolute bargain. There is a few little things that need looking at but thankfully the transfer case whine does'nt seem as bad as previously thought. It still whines but it can be replaced/fixed later rather than sooner which works for me as I am very, very lazy .
How comfortable are these things!!!!! Compared to my 40 its an absolute dream to drive on the road, can't wait to hit it up offroad to see how she performs.

Thanks for the info JC, as its an 86 model, I'm pretty sure it has the LT230T (tapered roller bearings) but I will definitely check for the staked nut like you suggested. After that its going to have a 50mm body and 50mm suspension lift, some massaging of the guards then some 33"s. Nothing too over the top but should end up being fairly capable, well, enough for me anyway.
Will post up a pic in the Post up your Rovers sticky.[/b]

Congratulations V840, your renal organs will love you for turfing those leaf springs and 3" wheel base...for a coil sprung, disc braked, power steered upper class and ultimately capable vehicle. Welcome to the fold.

I think if more cruiser and Lolux owners actually DROVE these vehicles before bagging them, then there would be a lot more on the road being used for what they were designed for. Don't get me wrong here, I have driven Hilux's into places I wouldn't be able to fit the RR, and got out again, and I've harboured a secret desire to one day own a HJ62 factory turbo auto cruiser with all the trimmings, even though it has leaf springs and rear drum brakes, at least the gloriously simple and rugged 12HT with an auto behind it will top 500,000km before a rebuild...But really, my wife and both my girls are Rangie nuts like me so none of them will let a toyota in the place, ( I haven't reminded them that our Lexus LS400 is BUILT by them!!!)

Body lift is easy, 50mm susp lift is a cinch, just make sure you choose the correct length shocks and if in doubt, go soft on you spring rate with a lot of free length. This is providing you aren't going to load the thing to the max, as a Rangie with stiff springs is no Rangie at all. As you already have found out, the standard suspension travel and articulation is pretty fantastic anyway!

Have a ball

JC

justinC wrote:Body lift is easy, 50mm susp lift is a cinch

Are there any body/suspension lifts I should go for/steer clear of? I was thinking rangie spares "white tiger" 2.5" body lift. The kit looks pretty comprehensive and should'nt be too hard to fit up.
Still not sure who to go to for the susp. lift though. Anyone with any ideas/experience feel free to post up or PM me. Wont be for a couple of months yet though as my bank account needs time to recover from the initial purchase. Fellow bar workers and full time students can empathise. Still, very keen to start playing..........

Save your money for the suspension lift and make your own body lift. I knew nothing about it till I started mine at it was very easy.

Buy a length of 2" aluminium rod and cut into 10 individual blocks (whatever height lift you want)
Buy 10 - bolts and nulocks and drill holes on body blocks to suit.

There are also some body spacer blocks (they dont support the weight of the body but help if it is extra loaded). These can be made from 2" square tube. I think there was 4 but not sure.

Then there are the 4 seat brackets. I just removed 1 of them then went down to the bolt shop and asked for the same but 2" longer in the thread. It is like a bolt with an eye in the end.

Bull bar can be modified a few different ways.

should only cost about $70 for everything

Save your money for the suspension lift and make your own body lift. I knew nothing about it till I started mine at it was very easy.

Buy a length of 2" aluminium rod and cut into 10 individual blocks (whatever height lift you want)
Buy 10 - bolts and nulocks and drill holes on body blocks to suit.

There are also some body spacer blocks (they dont support the weight of the body but help if it is extra loaded). These can be made from 2" square tube. I think there was 4 but not sure.

Then there are the 4 seat brackets. I just removed 1 of them then went down to the bolt shop and asked for the same but 2" longer in the thread. It is like a bolt with an eye in the end.

Bull bar can be modified a few different ways.

should only cost about $70 for everything

Make sure yo use a drill press to drill the holes. It needs to be square. The bolts are high tensile. 8.8

Anything else I need to worry about? When I did a search I couldnt see any mention of adjusting the radiator or shroud. Apart from seats and bullbar, anything else need modifying?

86 RR

rad mounts:

top mount need to be relocated down by same amt as lift. just drill new hole in front panel.

Michael.

Sweet, you guys have convinced me to do it myself!
Are you sure 2" rod will be enough diameter though? Sounds pretty thin to me. Wouldnt 3" be better?

use 50 mm round.

chassy mount is aprox 25mm and body mount is 50mm,

MIchael.

OH, OK then

v840 wrote:Anything else I need to worry about? When I did a search I couldnt see any mention of adjusting the radiator or shroud. Apart from seats and bullbar, anything else need modifying?

Most things have been mentioned.

You will need to modify the line to the clutch slave cylinder - cheapest is to mod the bracket for the bulkhead fitting at the top end of the flexible line.

I had to modify the mount for the hand brake lever, but yours is later and probably uses a cable (unlike mine).

You may have to extend the hi/lo shift lever and bend the lever or trim the console so that low range is selected properly (don't want it to jump out).

Before you lift the body, loosen the uni-joints on the steering shaft - they need to extend a little.

When you go off road, remember to lock the centre diff - push the hi/lo lever across to left.

Well, the body lift is now on hold for a while. I was driving along last night normally when suddenly I heard a loud bang from underneath the car. I geared down but there was no forward motion so I pulled over and the car promptly stalled. When trying to restart, the engine turned over but it wouldnt fire up.
My first thought was that Id blown the gearbox but it still holds reverse on a hill and if I try to start the car in reverse it lurches backwards which hopefully means the box is ok.
Now Im thinking its the transfer case which if it is, isnt too much of a problem as I planned on pulling it and rebuilding anyway, but, I cant explain why its not starting. Any ideas????
Im worried it may be something with the LPG system, though after a very rudimentary inspection, everything seemed fine.
Basically at this stage Ive got very little idea with whats wrong and was wondering if anyone has had this or something similar happen to them?

v840 wrote:Well, the body lift is now on hold for a while. I was driving along last night normally when suddenly I heard a loud bang from underneath the car. I geared down but there was no forward motion so I pulled over and the car promptly stalled. When trying to restart, the engine turned over but it wouldnt fire up.
My first thought was that Id blown the gearbox but it still holds reverse on a hill and if I try to start the car in reverse it lurches backwards which hopefully means the box is ok.
Now Im thinking its the transfer case which if it is, isnt too much of a problem as I planned on pulling it and rebuilding anyway, but, I cant explain why its not starting. Any ideas????
Im worried it may be something with the LPG system, though after a very rudimentary inspection, everything seemed fine.
Basically at this stage Ive got very little idea with whats wrong and was wondering if anyone has had this or something similar happen to them?

More than likely a backfire that has blown a hose off or damaged the air flow meter,

They will stall if there is a bit hole between the afm and the plenium or if the flap of the afm has been blown forward of its resting position.

Take the intake to bits, check the afm and make sure the flap isn't jammed forward of where it should be, give it a gentle push backward and it should spring into position, but her all back together and she should fire up.

I have really only had backfires with bad gas, totally random, or when you have run out of gas and it has slowly lean the car out and eventually it will backfire. Go and fill up the lpg tank when you get her going and see how much she takes - check that against the gas capacity of the car, should be about the same, reset you trip meter and keep an eye on how many ks you get out of a tank - 350K out of 70L is pretty good going



Tom