Outer Limits 4x4 Board

has anyone done it. like a 4 banger no t case etc, just a massive pump and a motor on each wheel. with valving you could control the power/torque at each wheel and operate some in foward some in reverse like the hurricane, also control breaking.

Just a thought. all the weight would be on the wheel its self making for good traction, and no diffs would provide plenty of clearence. you could arrange the seating any way thet suits, low cog. also have a main fwd / reverse pedal rather than using breaks and then reversing.

Thoughts????

yer there is a guy at tafe who is full of shit who recons there was a guy who won werock with a similiar set up but he was saying each wheel was on its own boom kind of system and you could pretty much widen or narrow the track






















personally i think its a load of shit but the theory is there but i think it would take a shit load of stuff to work out which i have no idea about

my 2c
cheers
elliot

build it and see if itd work

also doesn't werock stuff have to be automotive based? where are you going to source the hydrolic motors for each wheel?

awhile ago in 4wd monthly there was a old Cj which had chain/shaft driven front wheels and could be raise or lowered at will ... the wheels could be lifted above the bonnet so it sat on the belly pan ... i know its off subject but its along the same line

bad_religion_au wrote:build it and see if itd work

also doesn't werock stuff have to be automotive based? where are you going to source the hydrolic motors for each wheel?

we can get stuff like that cheap as if i look hard enough. we are members of a machinery auction company and have seen similar stuff go before. the thing is, you really have to know what you want as a pallet full of hydro gear may go for for say a grand but it is worth jack if its no good for the application, also they have a habbit of spreading stuff around on 3 pallets so you have to know whats missing and work deals with others etc.

I would assume that new a pump would be 5k, motors 3 each or something at a total guess, valving would be dear as would plumbing, good for someone in the industry to build

this would be the go 60kw and over 1200nm like 350mm round each.

http://www.kawasakipmd.com/pdf/HMC030.pdf

Hydro motors on the wheels are not allowed in comps as far as I know.
Thats why the guy in the US made the chain drive contraption. It still uses diffs so fitted the rules in a loophole.
It is a beast but is ugly as all hell.
Paul.

runnin4life wrote:yer there is a guy at tafe who is full of shit who recons there was a guy who won werock with a similiar set up but he was saying each wheel was on its own boom kind of system and you could pretty much widen or narrow the track


personally i think its a load of shit but the theory is there but i think it would take a shit load of stuff to work out which i have no idea about

my 2c
cheers
elliot

It's no shit. i saw it on pirate.

SKANK wrote:

runnin4life wrote:yer there is a guy at tafe who is full of shit who recons there was a guy who won werock with a similiar set up but he was saying each wheel was on its own boom kind of system and you could pretty much widen or narrow the track


personally i think its a load of shit but the theory is there but i think it would take a shit load of stuff to work out which i have no idea about

my 2c
cheers
elliot

It's no shit. i saw it on pirate.

Yeah then show us a link where a rig like that won WEROCK!

Biggest piece of cr@p ever made and the same thing would happen to a Hydro driven buggy. It would get owned, just like the chain drive did and it will never been seen again.

abd wrote:pos would the chain drive be better in comps like tuff truck

I'd imagine it'd be very difficult to register such a vehicle that runs on hydraulics/chains due to the fact that tuff truck is a registered vehicles competion.

bru21 wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:build it and see if itd work

also doesn't werock stuff have to be automotive based? where are you going to source the hydrolic motors for each wheel?

we can get stuff like that cheap as if i look hard enough. we are members of a machinery auction company and have seen similar stuff go before. the thing is, you really have to know what you want as a pallet full of hydro gear may go for for say a grand but it is worth jack if its no good for the application, also they have a habbit of spreading stuff around on 3 pallets so you have to know whats missing and work deals with others etc.

I would assume that new a pump would be 5k, motors 3 each or something at a total guess, valving would be dear as would plumbing, good for someone in the industry to build

this would be the go 60kw and over 1200nm like 350mm round each.

http://www.kawasakipmd.com/pdf/HMC030.pdf

my point was not that you couldn't get the motors, my point was where do you get suitable motors that are AUTOMOTIVE based... as the rules of werock state that the buggy components must be automotively based

Hyd motor on each wheel sounds like to much of a big step.
If your keen i would just mount a hyd motor to each diff and see how it went.
If u point the pinions straight up u would also gain alot of ground clearance, but to do this u would have to cut and rotate the knuckles on the front diff, which isnt a big deal.

A bobcat has 4 whells that are driven independantly. My guess is there is a pump on each wheel. You can find a shit old bobcat for about 3 grand i think. I thought of this but she said "NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Cheers and good luck

are bobcats independantlt driven. i thought they were a left/right setup or is that just the valving?

Skid steer loaders, (Bobcat is a brand) have a left and right motor only, I motor drives both wheels via a chain. Blew a hyd motor on 1 about 12months ago and cost $1600 for a new one.

I would like to know where u can buy a loader for $3000 also. The last one i seen was about 20 years old with damp seals and a cracked lift frame and it was $6000

besides all that it's against the rules.

Well. I stand corrected. Im out of ideas to do it cheaply.

Cheers

dont forget the weight of all that hydro gear adds up very quick and how much oil u will need in the system will add a heap aswell

spazbot wrote:dont forget the weight of all that hydro gear adds up very quick and how much oil u will need in the system will add a heap aswell

but you have no diffs, no transfer, no gearbox and you can hace a very low cog.

so each of those motors weights 100kg, then u gotta build adapters and shit to mount em to each wheel and secure em, add another 100kg u add a decent sized hydro pump that can flow enough L/m to spin up all four motors at once and get some good speed going, add a whole pile of interesting valving to control speed, direction, braking etc, add the control gear to run it + the 4 banger and the associated goodies for that, oil tank, oil cooler , oil lines, oil.

Hydro drive would be cool for crawling around but what are you going to do when you need a heap of wheelspeed to climb a ledge and you only have 1 foot to bump it? I know what i do in this situation. I use 200HP my 5-1 transfer and 1st gear. I dont know a Hydro pump that could be concidered for this application that could match the acceleration i have.

spazbot wrote:so each of those motors weights 100kg, then u gotta build adapters and shit to mount em to each wheel and secure em, add another 100kg u add a decent sized hydro pump that can flow enough L/m to spin up all four motors at once and get some good speed going, add a whole pile of interesting valving to control speed, direction, braking etc, add the control gear to run it + the 4 banger and the associated goodies for that, oil tank, oil cooler , oil lines, oil.

what pumps are u talking about?? I’m a heavy duty mechanic and I have never seen a 100kg motor/ pump, the motors in skid steer loaders weigh in at 15kg tops, more likely 10kg. As for acceleration it all depends on the size of your pumps and hoses. U will have no trouble designing a suitable system that could acceleration as fas as u.

jeep97tj wrote:As for acceleration it all depends on the size of your pumps and hoses. U will have no trouble designing a suitable system that could acceleration as fas as u.

I agree they could accelerate fast but I have yet to see a skid-steer loader that would do more than maybe 15kmh tops. All the hydraulic driven earthworks gear which I've driven will reach their top speed real quick but that top speed isn't to flash. The Cat loader I was on for a couple of days last week only just managed to pull away from the 17 tonne steel drum roller. I have stalled some of these machines before simply by loading them up too much because theres no slip in the driveline like a tourqe converter or clutch might give you.

I'm not that into the rock crawling but watching some of the vids over the net I don't think a hydro drive vehicle would be able to get the momentum for some of the huge climbs were theres a lack of traction. It may be that the werock eventss don't have any of these type of obstacles but I don't think hydro drive would be suitable for this type of competition.

jeep97tj wrote:

spazbot wrote:so each of those motors weights 100kg, then u gotta build adapters and shit to mount em to each wheel and secure em, add another 100kg u add a decent sized hydro pump that can flow enough L/m to spin up all four motors at once and get some good speed going, add a whole pile of interesting valving to control speed, direction, braking etc, add the control gear to run it + the 4 banger and the associated goodies for that, oil tank, oil cooler , oil lines, oil.

what pumps are u talking about?? I’m a heavy duty mechanic and I have never seen a 100kg motor/ pump, the motors in skid steer loaders weigh in at 15kg tops, more likely 10kg. As for acceleration it all depends on the size of your pumps and hoses. U will have no trouble designing a suitable system that could acceleration as fas as u.

the motor weight was got from the motor info in the pdf posted on here

Every other day I hop into an excavator I wonder how it's parts could be turned into a rock crawler. I reckon it's weigh over 2 tonne tho, depending on what size gear u got (remembering that excavators and bobcats only run 2 travel motors and crawler would need 4).

The valving in an excavator is amazing. Besides the travel motors you have the ability to control 4 independant hydralic systems at once (2 per hand) plus thumb activated solinoids as well. So you could control forward motion with your feet and control full hydro suspension and steering with your hands.

With the articulation and side angles advantage this would surely outweigh the lack of speed ?

If it were allowed in rules I reckon the odd excavator would be parted out for R and D.

spazbot wrote: the motor weight was got from the motor info in the pdf posted on here

Yep ok sorry

I think it is possible but u wouldnt build it out of junk parts, You would have to sit down with a hyd shop and plan everthing out, $$$$.

The reason earthmoving gear is slow is because of the way it is designed, they are after torque not speed, if u gear it for a bit more speed, say 60km/h flat out it should be ok??

slosh wrote:

With the articulation and side angles advantage this would surely outweigh the lack of speed ?

You think, so what when you get on a big side angle, you just jack up the side of the car and level it out!

Thats not an advantage.

Not only must it be Automotive based but all drive must be through a differential. Now i have the ultimate set up for an unlimited rig. All i need to do is add some tyres and i think im onto a winner

RUFF wrote:Not only must it be Automotive based but all drive must be through a differential. Now i have the ultimate set up for an unlimited rig. All i need to do is add some tyres and i think im onto a winner

Wes is gonna need a bloody big ski rope for that thing

is that a rubber belt drive i see

fawk that

Wat abou this sort of setup, drive right over those rocks, kinda :/