Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Yeah , exactly as the topic says , after a complete engine check (compression , timming belt , etc etc) , all was Okey , then i installed a CT20 Toyota turbo with the 2LT mainfold into the 3L (it matched perfectly) , and putted all the oil and water lines okey , a pressure meter and O2 meter , all went ok until i ran for first time the truck in the highway (after the turbo i mean)...

I was going at around 110-120 km/h and 0.6 bar when suddendly the engine started to lower RPM and then simply shutted off , i tried to restart the and i just found myself in the middle of a big cloud of white smoke while hearing horrible 'hits' inside the engine.... sad story.

the ONLY thing that i didnt do was to turn 1/4 the maximum fuel screw in the bomb (because i couldnt find it anywhere in the bomb. btw where is it? ) , so anyone knows what happened? i ran out of fuel and got a too lean mixture?

How i can be sure for the next time that the mixture will be ok? an AirFuel Meter will work for a Diesel Engine? (like 3L)?

please help me! , Thanks a lot
Plafo

When I put the turbo on my lux, same model as yours but with a dts kit, I took it to a diesel specialist to get the fuel sorted, also got the injectors done but I wasn't game to take the risk just by upping the fuel a bit. Maybe a call to a local diesel place might be the go and see what they'd cost to check it out.

.6 of a bar, is that around 7/8 psi?? that shouldn't have been a problem as I'm running about 11psi.

phippsy wrote:When I put the turbo on my lux, same model as yours but with a dts kit, I took it to a diesel specialist to get the fuel sorted, also got the injectors done but I wasn't game to take the risk just by upping the fuel a bit. Maybe a call to a local diesel place might be the go and see what they'd cost to check it out.

.6 of a bar, is that around 7/8 psi?? that shouldn't have been a problem as I'm running about 11psi.

Yeah that somewhat like 8 psi , anyway , now the engine is beign open , just to see the dissaster , i replaced the injector just 1 week ago , so do you mean that i need to recalibrate injectors too? as i know my injectors are working at 155 kg/cm2 for the opening or somewhat like that ....

I recived the instruction of Motorcare.com.au for they turbokit for 3L , and they said that 1/4 turn is just enough , anyone else can confirm that?

You can't hurt a diesel by running it too lean - it just makes less power. (The richer they run, the hotter they run.

White smoke on start up sounds like unburnt atomised diesel.

sorry I can't help more, but that's a couple of pointers.

Steve

maybe your timing belt this happened to my old surf timing belt / chain broke motor still just ran but blew smoke like no tommorow and had a clatter open valves were hitting pistons!!!

Gwagensteve wrote:You can't hurt a diesel by running it too lean - it just makes less power. (The richer they run, the hotter they run.

White smoke on start up sounds like unburnt atomised diesel.

sorry I can't help more, but that's a couple of pointers.

Steve

Running a diesel too lean will still burnt out valves and can do heaps of other bad things,

Unburnt fuel is black smoke.

The white smoke can be caused by water in the fuel, or too much air i.e running too lean.

Plafo, let us know what you find wrong with the donk.

Chucky wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:You can't hurt a diesel by running it too lean - it just makes less power. (The richer they run, the hotter they run.

White smoke on start up sounds like unburnt atomised diesel.

sorry I can't help more, but that's a couple of pointers.

Steve

Running a diesel too lean will still burnt out valves and can do heaps of other bad things,

Unburnt fuel is black smoke.

The white smoke can be caused by water in the fuel, or too much air i.e running too lean.

Plafo, let us know what you find wrong with the donk.

Okey , i'll make sure and check what happened , would be great if is only the timming belt... we will see...

But anyway , how i can be sure that the mixture is okey? AirFuel meters do work with diesel engines? with turbo?

Mate, there is a screw on the back of the injector pump that has a wire seal around it to stop it from turning, you need to turn that srew 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Can't remember which way to turn it but after you turn it while the car is sitting at idle rev it up and if you see a fair amount of black smoke it is the right way. Don't worry about the smoke coz when you start driving it and put it under a bit of load it burns the fuel better and no more smoke. At 8psi you shouldn't have to worry about injectors, I didn't and have had no trouble at all.

Out of interest, how long would you expect a well cared for 3L with aftermarket turbo (noting insane, say 8-12 pound boost) last?

Also what kind of peformance could i expect? Would i be keeping up with TD patrols/cruisers?

-Stu

My setup sounds very similar to Phippsy's (DTS) got it done at Berrima Diesel and hasnt missed a beat in nearly 4 years, been running at 10psi most of this time, bumped it up to 11 psi a few months back and is still going great, you shouldnt have probs if its setup properly and keep the EGT's below 600 (i like to stay around 500 just to be safe, at 11psi this is easy). I feel its worth the extra money to get professionals to do complex things like turbos etc rather than do it yourself unless you are the said professional.

White smoke is unburnt fuel and can be low compression meaning incomplete combustion, particually on start up
J Top

cathgart wrote:Mate, there is a screw on the back of the injector pump that has a wire seal around it to stop it from turning, you need to turn that srew 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Can't remember which way to turn it but after you turn it while the car is sitting at idle rev it up and if you see a fair amount of black smoke it is the right way. Don't worry about the smoke coz when you start driving it and put it under a bit of load it burns the fuel better and no more smoke. At 8psi you shouldn't have to worry about injectors, I didn't and have had no trouble at all.

Thanks man, i found one , that is 6mm adjuster and peraphs 12mm locker , in my case it doesnt have any wire seal , the only wire sealed screw that i'veis the maximum maximum velocity screw , the one that controls the maximum RPMS , so i'll try with the other and check what's going on...

Thanks a lot pal!
Plafo

pd: any idea about O2 sensor's and Diesel?

Plafo wrote:

cathgart wrote:Mate, there is a screw on the back of the injector pump that has a wire seal around it to stop it from turning, you need to turn that srew 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Can't remember which way to turn it but after you turn it while the car is sitting at idle rev it up and if you see a fair amount of black smoke it is the right way. Don't worry about the smoke coz when you start driving it and put it under a bit of load it burns the fuel better and no more smoke. At 8psi you shouldn't have to worry about injectors, I didn't and have had no trouble at all.

Thanks man, i found one , that is 6mm adjuster and peraphs 12mm locker , in my case it doesnt have any wire seal , the only wire sealed screw that i'veis the maximum maximum velocity screw , the one that controls the maximum RPMS , so i'll try with the other and check what's going on...

Thanks a lot pal!
Plafo

pd: any idea about O2 sensor's and Diesel?

Well , final notice:

two rings were distroyed , the chamber got damaged , the crackshaft seems to be Okey , anyway i'll need to rectify the block and all related stuff.... big big damage...

Cause of the problem seems to had run the engine without enough diesel , so the piston made too much graze and finnaly the rings dissapearead and piston scratched the chamber...

Just that.... i'll see if i continue with the idea of putting a turbo in the 3L....

Greetings,
Plafo

I just bought a reday done 3L with a CT20 turbo on it. Finally after getting it started, i found out it blows a lot of white smoke, with a blue tinge to it. I have also found oil in the line going to the intake manifold, my guess being a seal gone in the turbo, but its still alot of smoke.
any help?

the plough wrote:I just bought a reday done 3L with a CT20 turbo on it. Finally after getting it started, i found out it blows a lot of white smoke, with a blue tinge to it. I have also found oil in the line going to the intake manifold, my guess being a seal gone in the turbo, but its still alot of smoke.
any help?

When I was talking to the guys that tuned mine when it got turboed, they said that the 3L is known for a heap of blow by from the rocker cover breather that then runs to the turbo then to your inlet manifold. Mine has been like this for a couple of years now with no ill effects... But mine doesn't blow any smoke when it shouldn't.

There was a bloke around capalaba way running 21 psi thru his 3L with no problems. used to trash the living crap out of it too.

Plafo wrote:Cause of the problem seems to had run the engine without enough diesel , so the piston made too much graze and finnaly the rings dissapearead and piston scratched the chamber...

This is a worry. I was told by a turbo shop that I would be fine to bolt on my turbo kit and drive it untuned for the 300 odd ks that I have to do to get up to them to tune it.
They said it will be fine with the boost its the extra fuel if tuned wrong that can harm the engine.

My understanding was that overfueling will cause problems as well not running lean. more fuel = higher temps = not good for engine
somewhere in here there is an external link to an article that explains heaps about turbo diesel and it says its fine to add boost and not up the fuel, it may infact be better for the engine. I was hoping to do that same as ausyota, bolt on a kit then take it to a tuner. I have the instructions to the capa turbo kit for the 3l (only 10 steps, seems very simple) and it just says turn the max fuel screw 1/4 turn IN.

I wrote a whole article on my website about installing a turbo kit from a 2.4 Liter 2LTE hilux surf on to a 2.8L 3L engine. I have since run up over 5000 kilometers on the truck (5000 HARD kilometers by the way) on both regular diesel and bio-diesel with no issues what so ever.

This case would make me think your vehicle had underlying issues mechanically and when you put the turbo on it was the final straw and something had to give. The easiest thing to blame was the turbo since you recently installed it but you must remember that it will add more strain to the engine and if you have a weak point that is close to failure such as a ring or bearing then the turbo 'could' push you over the limit.

If you have a healthy 3L then there is no problems with turboing it. I know people who have also done the conversion with a professional kit from austrailia and racked up over 100,000 K and not had one turbo related issues with their 3L engine.

Don't let this thread discourage you from the project! It is well worth it!

Here is the link to my article: http://4wheeling.ca/index.php?option=co ... 6&Itemid=2

C

Yeh I totally agree.

Your motor must have a had a lot of wear prior to fitting the turbo up.

I'd say the rings/bore were already on the way out & the extra boost has just accelerated the failure. How many klms are on the motor?

I have been running a Garret setup for over 14 years on my 2.8 with no dramas caused by the turbo.

The CT20 setup is a good setup & works well. Toyota should have supplied the 3L with this option as it is well worth the effort to put one on.

As for blow by, this is common as the oil from the rocker cover breather tends to get blown into the intake pipe. This even happens on the 2LTE & Toyota have released a mod to rectify the problem.

I'd suggest anyone who fits a turbo kit up to run a catch can & totally eliminate it from running back through the intake.
Also as for the 1/4 turn, this is a rough guess of how far to screw the fuel injection volume adjustment screw in. To totally have it running spot on, you either need a pyrometer or know exactly what to look for coming out the exhaust. Basically if there is black smoke coming out under full boost & under load then there is too much fuel coming from the pump.

Also another thing people need to be aware of is that if the injectors are stuffed then get them replaced. Why waste the time on tuning the pump when the fuel won't burn anyway!

I live on the Gold Coast, so if anyone wants me to adjust their pump, just drop me a line & come & see me.

I've done a fair few now & know exactly what to look for.

Also I don't do this for a living, just a hobby!

Cheers

Russ

Have done about 120,000k's since mine was fitted, lots of highway running lately and still goes well, until it gets an exhaust leak around the dump pipe, then it sounds and runs like an old tractor...

Chucky wrote: Running a diesel too lean will still burnt out valves and can do heaps of other bad things,

Please elaborate how running a DIESEL lean will do that.

hdj105 wrote:

Chucky wrote: Running a diesel too lean will still burnt out valves and can do heaps of other bad things,

Please elaborate how running a DIESEL lean will do that.

when i was trying to get rid of the black smoke i was fiddling with my fuel adjustment screw to do it (after fixing governer diaphram) and my mechanic said to be careful as too much underfueling with generate enough heat to melt stuff as it would if i overfuelled it..

after that I got a Pyro so I can see exactly what it was doing when adjusting..

i guess he was saying that working a motor thats underfueled can generate enough heat to cause problems and breakages..

that adjustment screw only adjust the MAX fuel input. min fuel ie idle is always far far leaner.

fuel is what gives it heat, fuel ratio doesn't really matter until you over fuel it. you really can't under fuel a diesel. think about it, the fuel amount has to be far less than what it is at idle.

to get boost you have to burn fuel hence its very hard to increase boost and make it to lean, wind the fuel down you get less boost which = less air making it less lean.

Plafo wrote:
Well , final notice:

two rings were distroyed , the chamber got damaged , the crackshaft seems to be Okey , anyway i'll need to rectify the block and all related stuff.... big big damage...

Cause of the problem seems to had run the engine without enough diesel , so the piston made too much graze and finnaly the rings dissapearead and piston scratched the chamber...

Just that.... i'll see if i continue with the idea of putting a turbo in the 3L....

Greetings,
Plafo

sounds like the problem is with engine builder. not enough fuel caused rings to break.....yeah right ! !!!

if it blew white smoke, a common cause is the cam belt slipping a tooth which can advance the timing in a big way which certainly can cause big end and ring damage. sometimes the cam belt slips due to a failed tensioner.

thebrunks wrote:Yeh I totally agree.

Your motor must have a had a lot of wear prior to fitting the turbo up.

I'd say the rings/bore were already on the way out & the extra boost has just accelerated the failure. How many klms are on the motor?

I have been running a Garret setup for over 14 years on my 2.8 with no dramas caused by the turbo.

The CT20 setup is a good setup & works well. Toyota should have supplied the 3L with this option as it is well worth the effort to put one on.

As for blow by, this is common as the oil from the rocker cover breather tends to get blown into the intake pipe. This even happens on the 2LTE & Toyota have released a mod to rectify the problem.

I'd suggest anyone who fits a turbo kit up to run a catch can & totally eliminate it from running back through the intake.
Also as for the 1/4 turn, this is a rough guess of how far to screw the fuel injection volume adjustment screw in. To totally have it running spot on, you either need a pyrometer or know exactly what to look for coming out the exhaust. Basically if there is black smoke coming out under full boost & under load then there is too much fuel coming from the pump.

Also another thing people need to be aware of is that if the injectors are stuffed then get them replaced. Why waste the time on tuning the pump when the fuel won't burn anyway!

I live on the Gold Coast, so if anyone wants me to adjust their pump, just drop me a line & come & see me.

I've done a fair few now & know exactly what to look for.

Also I don't do this for a living, just a hobby!

Cheers

Russ

Hi Russ,

My lux needs a bit of a tweak I reckon. I'd like to take you up on your offer of having a look at it if you would?

I'm at Southport but will come to you of course.

PM me if your up for it.

Cheers,

Stuart