Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i have just put a new camshaft in a holden 253 for a mate and it now won't start. The cam timing is correct 9 teeth dot to dot. no 1 is on top dead centre. the distributor is in the correct possition. we have fuel and spark. everything points to incorrect timing but it has been double checked (twice). i am told that the lifters may have got stuck fully out holding the valves slightly open. I have not struck this problem before while changing cams in ford v8's.
anyone got any ideas? or suggestions.

THANKS!

Does it run at all?
How much lift has the camshaft got?

wont start! not backfiring just wont start. it tries to though.i would pull start it if it wasn't an auto. mild lobe lift above standard(very mild)

Is a couple of top dead centres , you sure its on compresion top dead ?

yep not 180 deg out double checked twice (thats four times)hehe

leads on correct? fords are numbered 1 2 3 4 right bank, 5 6 7 8 left bank
holdens are numbered left to right

Got me pack , I supose the bit you mentioned about vavles being stuck open might be feasable hydrualic lifters? , spose you could pull cover see if theres any slack ,The thing would be turning over pretty quick though with open valves ??

CRUSHU wrote:leads on correct? fords are numbered 1 2 3 4 right bank, 5 6 7 8 left bank
holdens are numbered left to right

yep

Dozoor wrote:Got me pack , I supose the bit you mentioned about vavles being stuck open might be feasable hydrualic lifters? , spose you could pull cover see if theres any slack ,The thing would be turning over pretty quick though with open valves ??

yep it does seem to be spinning over like it now has low compression. I would be confident that the mechanic who told me about this problem would know what he is talking about. i thought maybe someone in the real world might have a (backyard) clue on how to get over it.

check for power at coil with ignition on then at points then plugs possible broken wire to condensor

DIESELDOG wrote:check for power at coil with ignition on then at points then plugs possible broken wire to condensor

have spark

I had a similar prob a few years ago when i was still working in a workshop. I hope this hasnt happened to you.
We sent a Holden EFI 5LTR away to a repuatable machine shop in Brisbane to have a re-bore and decks machined. Thjey also supplied all internal parts including cam shaft.
After re-assembling the engine and fitting it I could not get it to run and had similar probs to yours. After about 4hrs of trying to figure out the prob i contacted the engine shop and after giving them the came shaft Part # it was realised they had stuffed up and had supplied a Carbed engine Camshaft. Now in just about every other engine this would not have been such a prob but in an EFI holden V8 the heads and cam are totaly different as with an early engine the intake ports are simease(sp) but in the late engine they are not.

from memory 253s dont have any adjustment on the rockers you just do them up is that right.

Yes this is right all holden V8s except some L34 and VLgroup A's were non adjustable rockers.

DIESELDOG wrote:from memory 253s dont have any adjustment on the rockers you just do them up is that right.

yep thats right

Im not familair with holden v8s, Anybody ?
have they got the same setup as red holden 6s?
These had an enterferance type lock nut on the rocker,and you could wind it up or down hence adjusting valve lash. but other setups like the 202 red blue black,and val hemi 6 was just the one position.
Hope some one can help you pack.

RUFF wrote:I had a similar prob a few years ago when i was still working in a workshop. I hope this hasnt happened to you.
We sent a Holden EFI 5LTR away to a repuatable machine shop in Brisbane to have a re-bore and decks machined. Thjey also supplied all internal parts including cam shaft.
After re-assembling the engine and fitting it I could not get it to run and had similar probs to yours. After about 4hrs of trying to figure out the prob i contacted the engine shop and after giving them the came shaft Part # it was realised they had stuffed up and had supplied a Carbed engine Camshaft. Now in just about every other engine this would not have been such a prob but in an EFI holden V8 the heads and cam are totaly different as with an early engine the intake ports are simease(sp) but in the late engine they are not.

thank ill check and see if there are any differences in old holden v8 motors. but i dont think there is

Im a slow typer

pull the plugs out and turn it over by hand you will see if it is firing in the right order,which i cant remember should be stamped on the inlet manifold if its original

Firing order=12784563 This is from memory and its been a few years since i have set them up.

Pack early holden V8s all had the same style cam but there is always the chance a parts supplier has supplied the wrong one.

Larry the early red 6s had adjustable rocker gear which was very similar to early windsors and you could actually use the windsor rockers to get a better rocker ratio I think it was 1.75 compared to 1.50. The 202's all had non adjustable rockers as did 186's unless it was a 186S.

windsor rocker ratio is 1.65, clevo is 1.73, bb chev is 1.7, sb chev is 1.5, plus aftermarket 1.6

how to check for top dead centre ( TDC)
1. Rollup a small piece of paper into a wad that just fits into the sparkplug hole & pack it in as tight as possiable into number 1 cylinder.
2. Crank the engine over and you will hear a "pop" when the paper is forced out ( best done with all plugs removed)
3. Stop cranking the instant the "pop" is heard and wind the motor back to TDC. Use a small screwdriver to "feel" the top of the piston moving.
4. Never rely on the harmonic balancer marks especially a nonfactory replacement part.
5. ALLWAYS fit new lifters with a new cam !!!!!

This will give you TDC and you can now set the distributor to the right timing ( 10 degrees before TDC). Points gap is 0.013 to 0.018 inch. Dwel angle is 26 to 30 degrees. Capacitor capacity is 0.15 to 1.20 mfd.

This will give you all the set requirements you need for the engine to start/run. If it still wont start/run then check for a vacum leak. Spray "AREO START" around the inletmanifold where it contacts the heads and block if it starts and sort of runs then you have a leak somewhere.
I hope you used silicone across the front and rear of the engine block instead of the "supplied " cork gaskets these always fail !!
Good luck !!

Got fuel?

hey fellas i have found the problem!
i checked with the mechanic who supplied the cam and it seams he doesnt know his left from his right. he told me to set the cam timing 9 links or 16 pins dot to dot on the lhs of the motor. i checked with him today and he said the same thing. we then looked it up in the book and the picture shows the rhs.



no wonder i never pay mechanics to do any work on my vehicles!

Dude i read in your first post that you set it up 9 links apart but if you had mentioned that you set this up on the left side(drivers) i could have answered this prob straight away.

RUFF wrote:Dude i read in your first post that you set it up 9 links apart but if you had mentioned that you set this up on the left side(drivers) i could have answered this prob straight away.

yea tell me about it
thanks to all sorry for wasting your time

You havent wasted anyones time it is all good tech and the next guy that has a similar prob may get the answer he is looking for in this thread.

lucky you didnt punch a hole in one of the pistons

runs as sweet as a button now ( lucky though)

good work packhorse as the bloke that did mine was a ford man and did it dot to dot lucky i hadnt started mine yet since the rebuild so i checked it and sure as i said before that it was wrong i would of hate to se what may have happend as this monday it is going to be dynoed lucky i cheked it