Outer Limits 4x4 Board

just thought id post this up incase anyone is intrested

the mtrs are: 37x12.5 x15
the krawlers are: 37x12.5 x17

actual height measurments

mtr: 36" x 12.5" (sidewall to sidewall)
krawler: 36 7/8" x 12.5" (from sidewall to sidewall)

weight

mtr on 15x8 steel sunraysia = 45.3 kg
krawler on 17x9 steel sunraysia = 51.7kg

have only driven down to check the airpressure on the krawlers
i couldnt get them to lock up on the road where i used to be able to lock up the mtr's

ill keep adding to this in the different terrains i use them on

Try searching to find out ya n0....................





The braking thing is interesting. Do you feel it wouldn't lock up because it has more traction? Or the different carcass dampens the brake pressure, and hence it just can't stop hard enough to lock up?

-Nemesis- wrote:Try searching to find out ya n0....................





The braking thing is interesting. Do you feel it wouldn't lock up because it has more traction? Or the different carcass dampens the brake pressure, and hence it just can't stop hard enough to lock up?

Or is it the extra weight of the tires?

MY45 wrote:

-Nemesis- wrote:Try searching to find out ya n0....................





The braking thing is interesting. Do you feel it wouldn't lock up because it has more traction? Or the different carcass dampens the brake pressure, and hence it just can't stop hard enough to lock up?

Or is it the extra weight of the tires?

The extra weight gained surely must be in the use of more steel in the larger wheels (17 vs. 15) rather than from the tyres.

Well in a perfect world, and you run 2 tyres on a street car say. The 17" will stop quicker as it has less sidewall flex etc blah blah blah.

I guess the weight may impact it somewhat, but overall the added weight isn't alot.....

sir_camel wrote:

MY45 wrote:

-Nemesis- wrote:Try searching to find out ya n0....................





The braking thing is interesting. Do you feel it wouldn't lock up because it has more traction? Or the different carcass dampens the brake pressure, and hence it just can't stop hard enough to lock up?

Or is it the extra weight of the tires?

The extra weight gained surely must be in the use of more steel in the larger wheels (17 vs. 15) rather than from the tyres.

the krawlers are known for their weight

can you measure the side wall thickness ?

planb wrote:can you measure the side wall thickness ?

also any idea on bead thickness?

Aso what price are the krawlers going for at the moment

looking forward to hearing more of your opinion on these timmy.
P.S. if you deside you dont like the krawlers let me know

krawlers down here havent been overly popular on slippery side slopes.

planb wrote:can you measure the side wall thickness ?

they are mounted..

so unless there is a special tool that allows me to get the wall thickness from the outside no i cant

mc4x4 wrote:Aso what price are the krawlers going for at the moment

no idea would have to ring a supplier

redzook wrote:

planb wrote:can you measure the side wall thickness ?

they are mounted..

so unless there is a special tool that allows me to get the wall thickness from the outside no i cant

Hang on a sec i know how to do it , get a drill bit and a cordless ,
drill a hole through the wall and when it starts to leak you know how far youve gone in , thats what i would do

HEY CHARGER wrote:

redzook wrote:

planb wrote:can you measure the side wall thickness ?

they are mounted..

so unless there is a special tool that allows me to get the wall thickness from the outside no i cant

Hang on a sec i know how to do it , get a drill bit and a cordless ,
drill a hole through the wall and when it starts to leak you know how far youve gone in , thats what i would do

then just chuck a worm in it
go on Tim
DO IT

well had a bit of drive on these now

on the road the kralwers have it hands down over the MTR's
the only thing is they are a touch louder but i can barely here it over the zuk anyways
id say it has alot to do with the 17" rims

on the side slopes i noticed the bfg's didnt seem to have as much lateral traction and were sliding sidways a fair bit compared to what the mtr's used to do

but goin forward on dirt covered rocks id say the krawlers hooked up a fair bit better

in the sand and dirt the krawlers had the edge

so im gunna try to sipe the lugs a bit now to get a bit more sideways traction out of them

redzook wrote:well had a bit of drive on these now

on the road the kralwers have it hands down over the MTR's
the only thing is they are a touch louder but i can barely here it over the zuk anyways
id say it has alot to do with the 17" rims

on the side slopes i noticed the bfg's didnt seem to have as much lateral traction and were sliding sidways a fair bit compared to what the mtr's used to do

but goin forward on dirt covered rocks id say the krawlers hooked up a fair bit better

in the sand and dirt the krawlers had the edge

so im gunna try to sipe the lugs a bit now to get a bit more sideways traction out of them

I would think the side slope prob your talking about is in your head. Mine Side slope better than anything i have driven on. But i have never driven exactly the same line twice with different tyres to get a decent comparison.

How much air are you running in them? I run more Air in mine than most run in other brands. I run 8PSI in the front and 6PSI in the rear they dont seam to get any better with less air so i dont see a reason to go with less than i need.

RUFF wrote:

redzook wrote:well had a bit of drive on these now

on the road the kralwers have it hands down over the MTR's
the only thing is they are a touch louder but i can barely here it over the zuk anyways
id say it has alot to do with the 17" rims

on the side slopes i noticed the bfg's didnt seem to have as much lateral traction and were sliding sidways a fair bit compared to what the mtr's used to do

but goin forward on dirt covered rocks id say the krawlers hooked up a fair bit better

in the sand and dirt the krawlers had the edge

so im gunna try to sipe the lugs a bit now to get a bit more sideways traction out of them

I would think the side slope prob your talking about is in your head. Mine Side slope better than anything i have driven on. But i have never driven exactly the same line twice with different tyres to get a decent comparison.

How much air are you running in them? I run more Air in mine than most run in other brands. I run 8PSI in the front and 6PSI in the rear they dont seam to get any better with less air so i dont see a reason to go with less than i need.

why would it be in my head?
i have no reason to hate on the krawlers

im just giving my opinion of runnin the 2 different tires in the exact same lines
somthin u say u havent done

im running bout 5 in the front and a little less in the rear

I never said anything about you hating on the Krawlers. I realy dont give a shit if you like them or not.

From the way you replied you didnt run a line then swap the tyres and run it again you were just commenting that the BFG didnt "seem" to be as good as the MTR "used" to be. Sounds to me your going on memory here??


So if you did swap the tyres then run the same lines you should have a defianate opinion on whats better?

ok sorry for my wording the bfg's DIDNT side hill aswell as the mtrs

redzook wrote:ok sorry for my wording the bfg's DIDNT side hill aswell as the mtrs

So you did do this "TEST" one after the other and they were both running the same amout of air and both sets give the same wheel track?

Im not trying to defend the Tyre there have been enough Krawler threads here that i havent replied to. I just want to know if this was realy a decent test or if you are going by your memories?

only goin on memories

i also forgot to take the slipograph to see how much slippage i got so it was neva gunna be a fair test


it is just my opinion
take it for what u want

So in other words its no different of a Test then i can comment on? And its only from your memory on the previous line you drove?

Apples with Apples Tim.

If you drive the same lines often enough on one set of tires you know quite accurately how they perform. Tim just drives the same lines over and over so im sure he would be able to tell is they perfom differently and that would go for different temps or whatevr might change betwen runs.

MY45 wrote:If you drive the same lines often enough on one set of tires you know quite accurately how they perform. Tim just drives the same lines over and over so im sure he would be able to tell is they perfom differently and that would go for different temps or whatevr might change betwen runs.

x2

i will have to agree with Tim here.

I have seen Tim drive the same line heaps of times, and i will back him here, he always runs same pressure in his tyres and its definately the same line coz i spot him thru it

and as Tim said, they definately couldnt hold the little zook up as high as normal....

but like u said on the same day we didnt test the two different tyres one after the other so how can we possibly compare them ?? its easy... one held him high and one made him slip

I can see where and what you guys are trying to achieve.

However there are so many factors that change how tyres react and i always laugh a little when people try and compare tyres.

To be honest i don't care which one does what

But you do need to take a few things into consideration.

1. Tyre Pressure, you would need to spend weeks testing the BFG just to find a pressure that works spot on. You have had the MTR's for along time and over that time i am sure you would have adjusted the pressures to what you use today. So to just put in say 6 psi (as an example) and they don't grip aswell, who's to say that at 6.5psi they work heaps better.

2. Tyre wear, how old are the MTR's and how worn are they??? The BFG's would be nearly new and this alone is enough to make them unperform. The Red Labels apparently are at there best when they are under 50% tread and i am noticing this with every tyre i look at. All the square edges would be gone on the MTR's i would imagine unless you "scrubed" the BFG's in they would still have fairly square egdes. This to me alone would be enough to say that you testing is slightly inaccurate.

3. You also need to look at the surface of the line you are taking, one month ago it could have have a very clean (or nearly clean surface) and now it may have a fine layer of dust and dirt over it creating a very minor change in how well any tyre grips.

4. Even though you are on "exactly" the same line i have never seen anyone able to drive "exactly" the same line. I am talking cm's and mm's. You may only have the arse end of the car 2 cm's offline but it could be enough to make it react differently.

5. Little things like is your fuel take full or empty, i would imagine that it would be a 40 lt tank, so you could infact have been 40kgs heavier or lighter.

I know all these things sound silly and insignificant but hey it does make a difference.

I myself could not and have never compared tyres like this, people do. But i beleive that what happens one day does not nessesaryily happen the next. Just like when you go out wheeling, someone drives a ledge that no-one else could and then the next time they go out they get denied every time (even though they were trying the same line ). See what i am saying.

After all that i beleive that the MTR is better than the Blue label BFG anyway.

POS wrote:I can see where and what you guys are trying to achieve.

well fill me in on what "we're" trying to achive im just giving my unbiased opinion of 2 tires

im not trying to start anything
im not gaining anything if i say one tire is better then the other

also the bfgs are more worn then the mtr's
i have the same amount of fuel i always fuel up b4 goin wheeling and run the tracks in pretty much the same order
and yesterday it was hot the rocks were sticky as the other cars were crawling and driving stuff they have neva done b4

if this comparison was by some one else not even involving bfg's
i dont even think tony would have chimed in

This thread started out good

Id be interested in your opinion of the krawlers after you have wheeled on them for a while as im considering switching from mtr's myself.

myth busted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!