Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey All,

I've searched, and can see that the conversion is suppost to be a better option. In what ways is a converted leafy better than a coily?

I assume the articulation is better, is there more body roll on the conversion? Will it still be as safe at highway speeds? or is best kept to the track?

At the moment I'm still pretty new to 4wheelin, but intend to keep doing it for awhile If i buy a coily will it bite me later when i get more serious?

I understand the typical cost of a conversion is around $3000 would this be right? does this include springs and shocks? or they extra?

Thanks

Adam

Basically when converting from leaf to coil you can build it bigger and better. Better Geometry in the design of the whole thing-- better flexy flex and stronger..obviously beefier componetry compared to the coily...

Looking at it myself. Have asspirations of Coil-ing a WT leafy. Getting an Engineer to pass the mods and also getting the thing Comprehensively Insured will most probably be an issue..

Take you time Read everything there is on the subject not just on this website but pommy ones, yanky ones etc. Coiling a zook has been done to death... I do drive a nissan though and want to turn a zook into one...

Pretty much like all vehicles, as sierras have developed over the years, they became more road oriented.

The coiler, as the final development of the sierra, is the most road biased of all. they have a number of unique parts and athere is far less interchangability that you would imagine with an older sierra (axles, transfer, motor parts all interior, tub and chassis are all different in amny ways, some subtle and other major.

IMHO they are the hardest sierras of all to develop. The suspension design is flawed and expensive to fix.

I (seriously) cannot see the point in coil converting a sierra. sure, it might become flexy and cool, but the cost, legality, on road drivability and a whole host of ther little issues that raise their heads really put the brakes on it for me.

If you can custom fab stuff yourself and know what you are doing (and expect to achieve) then go for it, but I don't think I would be paying someone else's time to build it.

This is espeically true if you are new to 4wding - The most important thing is to have a stable, balanced and reliable car to get out on trips with and learn how to drive, rather than a bootyfab car that spend all its time in a workshop or wobbling from one poser shot to another.

aim small - maybe a 2" body lift, a rear locker mild gearing a 31's - and get out and find your and the car's limits- they will be much higher than you might imagine.

Steve.

yeah i agree coils are over used and cost alot to get right

also a coil serria gearing is made more road friendly

I agree with Gwagensteve put some simple mods in and learn in that before you go for the more serious stuff

another thing is you gotta know what you can do in your state

zooks can go alot of places as it is

Coil sierras are the BOMB.


it does not cost much for coils and is not that hard to work out size and rate.
but if if you find it hard to do that, there is enough kits out there to convert it over. or you can just buy the coils off the shelf.

yeah i was under the impression that the coil kits were "the bomb" but the other guys may be right in taking in slow... what i was hoping to not do, was spending 2 lots of money on my suspension... as at the moment my leaves are flat, and desperately need some attention...

what (cheap) alternatives are availiable to give back some decent ride height, untill i decide if i want to go coilies? are there any kits that can just replace leaves and shackles? without changing countless parts?

Thx

Adam

What size tyres are you or do you want to run?

If u do springs u have to do shocks also at a min.

cheers

i seem to disagree, in the later versions of the sierra there are some problem and some weak spots (ie traiing arms) but besides that coil zook go as hard if not harder then the leafs.

um i was only going for a small set ... 30's or 33's from what i read, i believe that 33's are much more prone to snapping axels... and i dont wanna be caught in a situation like that for awhile... so 30's i'm thinking unless 33's snapping axels is a myth or is a simple way to overcome it (besides taking the easy way out offroad)...

Adam

A big difference to fit between 30s and 33's.

for 30s either go for 2" spring lift with longer shockers or 2" bodylift and leave suspension as is.

33's 2"sus and 2"BL with cutting also is best. or 2"sus and cutting guards for lift.

cheers

Nic

Might go 30's then... will 30's seriously fit when the leave's are FLAT?!

if so that may be the easiest option... do body lifts need engineering? at http://www.bigballsoffroad.com/category3_1.htm it says they do... do most ppl here just drive around without it? and hope they dont get defected or what?

also with flat leaves... is it likely that my leaves might snap or be dangerous offroad? or is just a case of having limited flex?

Adam

Most people drive around hope they dont get detected.

And what sort of 30" tyre? an AT will be a few "'s dif in comaprison to a 31" mongrel.

Flat leaves acctually flex the best, as they bend either way easy, higher ones just hold the zook up high when not flexing. They wont snap or be dangerous at all.

ALso you can extend shackles on the flat spring 1-2" and with a body lift i fitted mongrels under mine, but now with a 2" spring lift the touch even less.

I was also thinking of converting a leffy (LWB) in the future but laws in WA are beginning to make me reconsider my plans . although Im fairly mechanical minded and good with the tools, I also have a mate who is a marine "engineer" (machinist, fitter) who is more than happy to provide his knowledge and skill . which is the only reason I am seriously considering what i can do (I would never pay for some one else to do the work to much $$$), I was also thinking about an axel conversion at the same time.... the laws stopping you from doing this would only really come down to getting an engineer to pass it. All I thought the boundaries are is 6 inch’s of lift max, the wheels must be covered by guards, if you upgrade your engine you need to upgrade you brakes & suspension, spotties must have covers on in residential areas & also must have a separate switch. Im unsure about bar work atm.

Alright, i was going to be going all terains, since i use the car to drive to work... so the cheapest easiest option for me at the moment seems to be get extended shackles, a 2 inch body lift, and keep the flat springs.... and redo my shocks... Which works well for me, since i wont be splurging a large amount on it, incase i decide to go to coilies but will keep me off the ground for awhile ...

Anyone know of any online supplier of extended shackles to suit?

Thanks

Adam

U can make them easy if u can use metal and a grinder.

Otherwise snakeracing and bigballs do i think

cheers

Also your standard shocks will be fine.

Saves u a few hundred more, and a body lift and shackle lift are basically free if u find someone who has done it before to help or research a bit more.

You will pay through the teeth for someone elses shackles and they will still be slighty illegal and prolly to long for your needs, just look at your current ones and think what metal u have laying around u can cut into 8 longer strips and drill 16 holes in them.


Just found a pic of mine when i had flat springs.., now i made them shorter as with 2" springs they wernt needed.

Well i have plenty of access to various sizes & thicknesses of flatbar, i had a look at the image of the extended shackles at snakeracing... they have a piece of rhs in the centre joining both sides, is this necessary? derelict's setup doesnt have them? do the shakles take alot of stress? or is it okay to skip the rhs joining them? also what sorta dimensions are we talking from the hole centres for extended shackles?

I'm confident making the shackles myself, what size bolts do they typically have? 10mm?



Adam

i've used 6mm bar 1"longer than stock and 13mm bolts the same as the original bolt thickness. i did not add a centre brace as most of the time zooks are not heavy enough to need them. some

remember that every 1" longer gives .5 inch lift. Most do not recomend longer than 2".

cheers

How different is a coily chassis from a jimny chassis?

I got a good look at one during the motor show and was suprised how similar it looked to my leafy ('cept for obvious things like the suspension and what not)

Is it to far off that from buying a rolled jimny and mix and matching a Softie tub and front clip to the chassis and drivetrain?
(just think, most people talk about upgrading there motors anyway... and you could mix and match ratios)

Well i would of put them in if i was having them in for ages, any longer and you probably would, but they havent deformed or anything, i suppose they don't get stressed that much with the light suzuki.

Santos wrote:How different is a coily chassis from a jimny chassis?

I got a good look at one during the motor show and was suprised how similar it looked to my leafy ('cept for obvious things like the suspension and what not)

Is it to far off that from buying a rolled jimny and mix and matching a Softie tub and front clip to the chassis and drivetrain?
(just think, most people talk about upgrading there motors anyway... and you could mix and match ratios)

the only problem with this is that you are downgrading your diffs, and transfer at the same time.

IMO you would be best to start with a sierra, and just do an engine swap. Heaps easier.

the sierra and jimny chassis are not alike.

there is a huge difference between the two.

Adam, I would not go with extended shackles. They cause a hole heap of handling problems if you try for a 2" lift. I wont go in to it, as there are books on it.
I fitted 2" lifted springs ( EFS brand ) and have no trouble with flex.
Just make sure you tell them the loads you intend to carry 90% of the time. Softer is better. The springs only needs to hold the car up at the chosen height.
Also, when I fitted my springs, it gave it almost a 4" lift from the sagged flat springs.

Do the EFS springs fit straight into where the original suzuki springs fitted? or do you need to replace the shackles and a whole lot of other stuff? I'll happily buy new leafs for it if it is simple swap, to keep the cost down...

Otherwise i may just extend my shackles and then if i buy new leaves, swap them back over to the stock ones or any supplied?

Thanks Zute, if i ever do replace my leaves i wont leave em on..

Adam

Yep straight swap. You will need new longer U-bolts.

Also lookat the old Man Emu Dakar range which a few people in our club have found to be good and their pricing is really good

If you choose 30's, shoot for off the shelf springs (I too vote OME Dakar) OME shocks and leave it at that. some carful work flattening out some seams and trimming the braket that the front bumper bolt to etc and 30's should be fine.

don't get too influenced by some of the louder voices on the board carrying on about all sorts of uneccesary mods - very little of this stuff is relevant to a daily drvien, mild car with a driver with limited experience. Plenty of members of our club have talked about buyong a cheap car and setting it up like I have outlined above to get back to a simpler car without all the compromises that a bigger build entails.

Hitman, I'm pretty new to this 4by caper, and my zook has got a homemade 2" bodylift, and 31" muddies. I persuaded the guards a bit, and it rubs slightly on full droop/full lock, but its great fun out in the bush. I can go just as many places as my mates Jackeroo and he's spent thousands, and my other mates toyo 40 troopy, I guess it depends what you want to do. For me, the brief was to build a cheap off roader that I could take the kids bush on the weekends...and we love it
Jay

I take it ARB is a supplier of the old Man Emu Dakar range? last time i went their enquiring about springs they told me i needed to buy a whole kit, and it dosnt bolt straight up?? or would that have being a different range they were trying to sell?

Thx Adam

o_0

I think they are wrong, anymore detaisl off them?

Also u mightnt need new ubolts, i didnt.. but it depends on how many springs are in the pack. Good if they come with the springs, not so good if u get home and need longer ones lol!