Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just thought I would get peoples opinions on what they would put into a front engined buggy.

Some criteria:

The lighter the better - also depends on where COG of motor is
EFI for extreme side angles
Size is a consideration although not that important
Needs to have instant power/torque for hopping up massive ledges
Has to sound great - crowd pleaser
Cost is a consideration - but really just want value for money

On the shortlist at the moment we have:

chev 350
LS1
1UZFE - maybe


So I thought there are plenty of people here that know more about V8's than I do and your opinion would be appreciated.

cheers

zach

why not a boss v8. they can be had for $3500 and made to run computer wise for $900. I think they are 240kw, double overhead cam, similar to the toyota i guess but 5.4lt and more torque.

I think an old chev is too heavy alough they are tiny. my 295 hp crate chev cost me $3400 complete (minius alt and steer). it has big valves and lower compression than other 295hp's meaning less strain on the starter. although no efi would mean $1000 odd for a pro injection.

ls1's have been used as they are light but they are too dear for a buggy. you would be lucky to get one under 4 complete and then need to have it unlocked for $300 and tuned for $1100 to make decent power. The ls1 in my truck can idle up my pretty steep driveway with no accelerator in my gq, so contrary to others opinion it has torque.

I have seen a current crusier v8 complete driveline rad to tailshaft for 6k, the centre diff would make good buggy transfer too.

if it was up to me i would run a boss and auto with a nissan case with hoppers. a bullet proof driveline for reasonable dollars

cheers bru

Gen3
Peter.

bru21 wrote:why not a boss v8.

Coz it is a Ford

Rover 3.5 or 4.4 Leyland. All alloy, not sure about performance.

What about the EFI Rover motors ? Lightweight (alloy) and decent grunt. And they sound good

On the weight side of things, I've heard the 1UZ is similar weight to cast iron chev due to 4 OHC heads, meaning they prob carry their weight higher than chev. Plus they are bulky.

The LS 1 though is pretty light, without accesories I think around 180kg. Read somewhere that v6 commo is similar weight.

Rover stuff is about 45kg lighter than that, again I read this from previous thread on this topic.

From some of the ricer boys i've spoken to you can get the 1UZFE cranking some highish Hp for not a lot of money. Throttle body, extractors and higher pressure/flow (not 100% sure) fuel pump.

A half cut can be had for $1,500 - $2,500 with an auto.

As far as i am aware the only problem that occurs regularly is the tappets which are shimmed. A good mechanic will be able to do the job in less than a day (so i'm told).

why injected? go straight gas and be done with side angle issues

My first choice would be a 3.9 rover v8.
Can be bought cheap makes reasonable power and light weight


My second choice would be the Nissan Infinaty V8 (vh45??) dont know about weight but fark they go alright and sound freekin awesome and a half cut can be bought reasonably cheap..

moved to tech

LS1 without a doubt!

depends on what you are going to use it for.
if you are only going to drive it in comps (ie. half a dozen weekends a year) it would be hard to beat a nice LS1, but if you plan on driving it for fun (ie. nearly every weekend) that is a lot of $ to have tied up in something that will spend a few hundred hours a year lying on its side or pointing at the sky knocking away with no oil pressure.

As most know I was going to go with a 1uz in my buggy. But have just bought a 300hp (approx) 350 chev with alloy heads, roller rockers etc for $1400. This will be going on straight gas and will be getting a full man th400 or 300 auto behind it.

Why did I go with the chev? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If I was to go the 1uz way the cost is alot more as you have $2000 for a half cut + then $$$$$ for an adaptor to go to an auto of any sort that would be strong enough. Plus with straight gas there is no chance of a fuel spillage in a roll over.

gas is the go. surburban imports do a ls1 with an old style hei ignition and carb, through the carb and fit gas. you will need a camaro sump for the ls1 mine cost me $250 s/h with pick up mod (lowered) off this board, castlemaine want $900 for a steal one. surburban imports chevs have one already.

if you went ls1 look at their parts and build an ls6 pretty cheap, get a suit rebuild ls1 (camero sump)or short motor (bottom end will still be good), ls6 heads, block etc,
hei ignition kit, and graft a cheap alt (holden ones are over $450) and your choice of water pump $400 odd, and pwr steer pump (the pressure must be quite high of the holden one as i can dry steer my 36x15.5 r15's with my pinky lock to lock (nissan box).

Look for an early oil burner ls1 as that would be adequate.

I think 5k would get you a ls6/ls1 hybrid - basically a ls6, new heads and top end and hei ignition, then gas is easy. that said i still thing the ford is better value (and i bought a chev for mine so no bias)

look at surburbans site, and try not to c@m over the big chevs like the 454 small blocks etc

LS1/6, but keep the ports close to stock. If it's jus for rock crawl, I'd even have a go at makin the ports/valves smaller to keep intake velocity up. Should increase lowdown torque and response. It'd be interesting to see what a dyno says with smaller ports/valves, upped comp and different cam.

the comp is already higher than most comp chev old schools. I would think a torque cam would be hard to find, and the std one is good for 300+kw. also expect to pay $1500 for a cam. the computer can be tuned for whatever you like and is far more capable than a motec etc, far more parameters, utputs etc. prob $1100 for a computer unlock and dyno tune - thats whai i paid. search ls1 edit for more info. how much torque do you need in a buggy any way. 450nmx3 in transfer x 4.6 in diff x what ever gear is pretty serious for a 1500kg beast not to add torque multiplication from the auto.

slosh wrote:On the weight side of things, I've heard the 1UZ is similar weight to cast iron chev due to 4 OHC heads, meaning they prob carry their weight higher than chev. Plus they are bulky.

The LS 1 though is pretty light, without accesories I think around 180kg. Read somewhere that v6 commo is similar weight.

Rover stuff is about 45kg lighter than that, again I read this from previous thread on this topic.

1UZ weighs about 200kg with all accessories....

I guess I didn't add quite enough information to the original post.

This motor would be for a WERock, OZrock Competition buggy.
It will be built to win so it has to be rock solid.
I guess the more common the motor the better as spares and specialists can be found more easily

Transfer case will be an atlas II
Auto will be a 2 speed powerglide
Steering will be full hydro

Thanks for all of the replies.
Very much appreciated.

I will research the options you guys have presented

zach

zzzz wrote:I guess I didn't add quite enough information to the original post.

This motor would be for a WERock, OZrock Competition buggy.
It will be built to win so it has to be rock solid.
I guess the more common the motor the better as spares and specialists can be found more easily

Transfer case will be an atlas II
Auto will be a 2 speed powerglide
Steering will be full hydro

Thanks for all of the replies.
Very much appreciated.

I will research the options you guys have presented

zach

Hey Zach how will you go from a powerglide to the atlas as I to wanted to use a power glide but no one had a conversion kit for them to a transfer case(especailly a lux one) so i thought that a t400 was my only choice,do you know something i dont or is it an import setup.

I want to use a rover 3.5 or 4.4 donk matched to a power glide and twins i'll have to see what happens it may be a custom job. BTW good luck.

gtwebbie wrote:
Hey Zach how will you go from a powerglide to the atlas as I to wanted to use a power glide but no one had a conversion kit for them to a transfer case(especailly a lux one) so i thought that a t400 was my only choice,do you know something i dont or is it an import setup.

I want to use a rover 3.5 or 4.4 donk matched to a power glide and twins i'll have to see what happens it may be a custom job. BTW good luck.

powerglide is listed on the advance adaptors website as one of the atlas combos u can use.

http://www.atlas-tc.com/download/adapterchart.pdf

at bottom.

talk to gary with the FSJ on 38.5s that pumps out 500hp at the rear wheels ive got reason to belive.

zzzz wrote:I guess I didn't add quite enough information to the original post.

This motor would be for a WERock, OZrock Competition buggy.
It will be built to win so it has to be rock solid.
I guess the more common the motor the better as spares and specialists can be found more easily

zach

Based on this I'd go LS 1. I bought one w/out accessories or harness <60 000km for $2600 to put in my Hilux. It would be hard to find an old skool chev to this spec for the money, and there is still weight penalty.

The guy I bought it from had 30 for sale but I think I got one of the last he had.

4.0L 1UZ does not have enough torque, they are built to rev. Mine does not do anything until about 3000rpm (dont have a tacho yet )
4.7L 2UZ from Landcruiser would be MUCH better, or late model 4.3L

I will swap to a 4.7L one day...

I say 6.5. chev turbo diesel.

solid with very few things to brake, fall off or wear out.

All the torque you need at low rpm range

Eric

Whats the OPW buggy running?

scout392 wrote:I say 6.5. chev turbo diesel.

solid with very few things to brake, fall off or wear out.

All the torque you need at low rpm range

Eric

It's also heavy, under powered and massive.

Slunnie wrote:Whats the OPW buggy running?

350 chev im pretty sure

sierrajim wrote:

scout392 wrote:I say 6.5. chev turbo diesel.

solid with very few things to brake, fall off or wear out.

All the torque you need at low rpm range

Eric

It's also heavy, under powered and massive.

CHEVY 6.5
V8
6500
DIESEL
120@3400
394@1700

CHEVY 6.5
V8
6500
DIESEL TURBO
140@3400
515@1700

from http://www.marks4wd.com/misc.html i think 515@1700 rpm very good.
Dont know about weight tho.

Eric

I guess what you need to ask is how much power do you need?