rover noob- towing

[Spartacus]

the closest i been to a landrover is my mates 2004 TD so here goes.

im in the market for a DD work hack, soccer mum style, 4x4 to tow my
rocky to and from competions.
i work 10mins from home and soccer on weekends around brisbane. so fuel isnt a big concern, altho i prefer diesel to petrol because i just do?

sao what are landrovers like?

- comfy
- loud
- maintanance cost
- towing heavy things slowly
and any other info a rover noobi should consider

cheers fella's
mullet

[ISUZUROVER]

In general LRs tow heavy loads very well IME.

I have a 1987 110 with a factory fitted ISUZU 3.9L Diesel. I have towed 1.5-2t trailers a few times and have been very happy with how it has towed.

It doesn't cost any more to own than any other diesel (So far only oil and filters and basic maintenance).
The ride is very comfortable.
The driving position is a matter of personal preference, in a defender/110 you sit very close to the door and very upright, but I am 6'3" and find it comfortable (discoveries and rangies have a driving position more like a Japanese 4x4).
Quiet enough, even though it has a loud DI diesel.

If you aren't too worried about fuel cnsumption, a V8 would be a good buy - and they usually sell cheaper than an equivalent diesel model. The engines usually do at least 400-500k between rebuilds. The ISUZU diesel I have is known to do 1mil km between rebuilds.

My reccomendations would be (in no particular order):
1993-Current Discovery - choice of V8, 2.5L 4cyl diesel, 2.5L 5cyl diesel - both with either R380 5 speed or ZF auto.

1984-1989 110 - with V8 or ISUZU 3.9 Diesel - with the strongest 2 gearboxes (4speed/5speed) ever fitted to a rover and the strongest drivetrain. Need to get one that has been looked after - interiors can be getting a bit tatty by now.

1993-current Defender 110 or 130 - 2.5L 4cyl diesel, 2.5L 5cyl diesel with only Manual box.

Any V8 Range Rover would also be a good tow vehicle (don't buy a diesel unless it is a late model BMW diesel). After 1989 (I think) they had a borg warner T-case, which is not as good as the discovery and defender (LT230) T-case - but it is an easy swap.

[Micka]

Nothing much to add to Ben's as usual excellent post.

Except for:

1. The ability to have a 10 speed gearbox - shift from low to high for really heavy loads.

2. The ability to reverse you trailer in low range 4wd without stuffing your transfer - just don't lock the centre diff.

3. The ability to tow 3.5t from the factory.

4. Same power as a datto/toyo diesel twice its size...but only using half as much fuel.


The 3.9l Isuzu diesel is the engine of choice. If you can find a late one - regardless of the model - that has had this conversion...BUY IT. Otherwise, any of the engines are good.


Micka

[Spartacus]

In general LRs tow heavy loads very well IME.

I have a 1987 110 with a factory fitted ISUZU 3.9L Diesel. I have towed 1.5-2t trailers a few times and have been very happy with how it has towed.

It doesn't cost any more to own than any other diesel (So far only oil and filters and basic maintenance).
The ride is very comfortable.

i forgot to mention comfort is very important... im 19 and already want coils

The driving position is a matter of personal preference, in a defender/110 you sit very close to the door and very upright, but I am 6'3" and find it comfortable (discoveries and rangies have a driving position more like a Japanese 4x4).

im 1800mm if that... i dunno what that is but 6 foot is huge isnt it?

If you aren't too worried about fuel cnsumption, a V8 would be a good buy - and they usually sell cheaper than an equivalent diesel model. The engines usually do at least 400-500k between rebuilds.

with fuel im only driving 10kms weekdays, and all over brisbane for soccer on weekends.
Is that petrol or diesel good for 4-500k

Any V8 Range Rover would also be a good tow vehicle (don't buy a diesel unless it is a late model BMW diesel). After 1989 (I think) they had a borg warner T-case, which is not as good as the discovery and defender (LT230) T-case - but it is an easy swap.

how do i tell it has a BMW engine... do i just look at it for a beema badge?

alrighty ive done a short search autotrader and found:
--Discovery series 2 TD5--
so that means it has:
2.5L 5cyl diesel with ZF auto LT230 transfer or borg worner

--landrover defender 130--
it just says turbo diesel, 145,000 air con 25k

how do the two compare? apples and oranges or chalk n cheese?

4. Same power as a datto/toyo diesel twice its size...but only using half as much fuel.

is this true? has anybody got torque, HP, KW ratings
spose i betta ask how do the sound then compared to the bigger 6's

i agree, ben you are either the guru or just a mad fan of landrover?

cheers

[stuee]

I'm 19 too and I've got a 97 v8 discovery. Only problem is I drive between 500-600kms a week. Shouldn't be to bad when I go back to uni next year though. For the various loads we've towed before its handles with ease, the tow bar on it is legally rated to tow 4 tonne in the UK. Comfot is very good, much better than my old mans new patrol and the zf auto is seriuosly smooth. As a daily driver package I rate it better than my folks cars (corolla and patrol) and have yet to drive a sub $20k car that drives as well, its just smooth with well sorted suspension, good power delivery and an awsome auto.

Its been in the family since new so its had full servicing etc and as a result the only noteworth problems we've had are blown fuel pump, new tyres fitted poorly (tyre guys didn't think it was them and we ended up spending big bucks getting the tranny pulled out srviced etc trying to find the vibration, ended up being an out of round tyre which we found ourselves ), and most recently a bent steering arm and smashed steering damper which can be put down to operator error.

Other problems I've got with it are huge insurance premiums ($1700+ with $1200+ excess), huge fuel bills (rover v8 and long distance don't mix) and servicing costs (same as any 4wd but still expensive for a 19yr old and rego. This is why I've stashed away some money from working to keep the car going through uni.

If you haqppen to get a disco auto and are towing I would add a aftermarket external cooler and a temp gauge. I'm going to do this soon just as I feel its important (I keep a close eye on all temp gauges on the machines at work esp during summer) and will come in handy if I keep going to the beach.

Hope this helps

Stuart

edit* I'm close to six foot and have no problem with height as the discos have quite high rooflines though you may end up seeing a bit of the rooflining if you are quite tall. If your a little on the wide side the disco may not gbe the car for you though. I find the seating is quite narrow compared to cruisers,patrols, commodores etc though I have seen plenty of, ahem, wider people driving them.

[ISUZUROVER]

i forgot to mention comfort is very important... im 19 and already want coils

Then a rangie or disco is perfect for you - they are the most comfortable 4x4s on the market. Defender is not quite as comfortable - still all coils but not as much room and a lower level of features.

im 1800mm if that... i dunno what that is but 6 foot is huge isnt it?

I am just over 10cm taller then.

Is that petrol or diesel good for 4-500k

Petrol, the cams and heady may need doing sooner though. The diesel should do about the same.

how do i tell it has a BMW engine... do i just look at it for a beema badge?

The BMW engined models are quite new - and probably more than what you wanted to spend ($60k or so for an '03).

alrighty ive done a short search autotrader and found:
--Discovery series 2 TD5--
so that means it has:
2.5L 5cyl diesel with ZF auto LT230 transfer or borg worner

2.5L 5cyl, ZF (if auto), All Discoveries had the LT230 (only the rangies had the BW). Discos from 2000-2003 had no Centre diff lock (relied on electronic traction control instead) - you need to buy a retrofit kit (not very $$$).

The diesels in the disco and defender are exactly the same, and the manual box and T-case as well.

The 200Tdi (2.5L 4cyl) was from 1989-1993
The 300Tdi (2.5L 4cyl) was from 1993-1999
The TD5 (2.5L 5cyl) was from 1999-current

300TDi 111Bhp@4000 rpm 195ft/lb@1800 rpm
TD5 122Bhp@4200 rpm 221ft/lb@1950 rpm

The 200Tdi had similar power and torque. The disco TD5 has a bit more output than the defender TD5. The 200 and 300Tdi can be tweaked almost for free, the TD5 can be chipped and then it sound and goes like a jet engine.

4BD1 (3.9L ISUZU diesel)
Civillian 110 99Bhp@2800 rpm 195ft/lb@1600 rpm
Military 110 88Bhp@2800 rpm 180ft/lb@1600 rpm

[Spartacus]

alrighty u almost have me sold on the disco. its comfort & towing capacity
almost have it sold.

so the obvious questions start to appear:

auto or manual which is known to last longer?
V8 or TD dont both have good low down torque?

[RangingRover]

The V8 obviously has more low down torque, since it has 3 more cylinders and no turbo spool time. The TD5 in stock form can require a bit of revving to get into the power range, which could be a blessing or a curse when towing, not sure which.

My personal preference will always be to drive a manual car, and you'll probably find a manual TD5 will get going a lot quicker with 1500 rpm launches and a touch of clutch slip than an auto one ever will.
That said, an auto V8 series II will wheelspin on concrete if you give it a good squirt from an almost standing start - the power loss through the auto is a lot less noticeable.

As to which lasts longer, on the whole I would have to say manual, providing its not abused. An auto requires pretty regular maintenance, and is super sensitive to temperature (very hot when towing), while a gearbox just requires an oil change every now and then.

The other thing (IMO) in its favour is that a gearbox when worn will usually still give you full drive, although probably with crunchy gears, but an auto will slip more and more as the friction plates burn out.

My dream rover is a manual TD5 disco II, running big rubber,
intercooler and chip.

[Bush65]

I prefer diesels, but it sounds like you will be doing mostly short runs and that is not good for a diesel engine.

When used for short runs, sulphuric acid (from sulphur in diesel fuel) accumulates in the crankcase. A diesel needs long runs to build up enough heat for long enough to get rid of the sulphuric products. Otherwise you have to replace the oil at shorter intervals than normal and that gets expensive.

Edit: maybe this is less of a problem now with low sulphur diesel - anyone with some knowledge on this?

[ISUZUROVER]

Edit: maybe this is less of a problem now with low sulphur diesel - anyone with some knowledge on this?

The limits was originally 5000ppm, then a few years back reduced to 500ppm, then in 2006 (don't know if it has happened yet) 50ppm became the new limit.

Since the fuel is the only source of sulphur, you would have to expect a proportional drop in sulphuric acid levels.

As for my pick - I like diesels (and manuals) too - so would probably go with that option, but a v8 should last just as long and probably be a little bit better for towing - for the reasons RangingRover mentioned above.

[Spartacus]

dammit why do so many rovers come in 4 speed auto?

i like manuals because they make me feel more in control under brakes

[Apocalypse]

Check out Ebay, lots of manuals on there. I was once looking at an early disco, like pre '93. The manual kinda worried me a bit as it wasnt like other 5 speed manuals, it was like:

R 1 3 5
....2 4

Kept wondering if I would accidently put it in reverse at traffic lights.

[Simo63]

Check out Ebay, lots of manuals on there. I was once looking at an early disco, like pre '93. The manual kinda worried me a bit as it wasnt like other 5 speed manuals, it was like:

R 1 3 5
....2 4

Kept wondering if I would accidently put it in reverse at traffic lights.

That's the earlier LT77 gearbox .. and I can tell you from experience .. it is easy to put one into reverse accidentally especially when they are older and the reverse lockout/detent has given up the ghost. Can be quite a surprise to let out the clutch and go backwards instead of forwards. Best way around it I found was to always select 2nd gear then go straigh tup into first. Becomes a habit after a short while.

Cheers
Simo

[Spartacus]

Check out Ebay, lots of manuals on there. I was once looking at an early disco, like pre '93. The manual kinda worried me a bit as it wasnt like other 5 speed manuals, it was like:

R 1 3 5
....2 4

Kept wondering if I would accidently put it in reverse at traffic lights.

That's the earlier LT77 gearbox .. and I can tell you from experience .. it is easy to put one into reverse accidentally especially when they are older and the reverse lockout/detent has given up the ghost. Can be quite a surprise to let out the clutch and go backwards instead of forwards. Best way around it I found was to always select 2nd gear then go straigh tup into first. Becomes a habit after a short while.

Cheers
Simo

should be sweet withr reverse if thats the case as im chasing something
modern around 1999/2000

[ISUZUROVER]

should be sweet withr reverse if thats the case as im chasing something
modern around 1999/2000

1994 was the changeover to the R380, which is still being used now. 1999/2000 was when the TD5 was introduced. Some of the first TD5s had minor teething problems, but anything should be sorted out by now. Just get it checked over by someone who knows what they are doing.