V6 Commodore Drama,

[Gribble]

Ok it goes like this,

Mate of mine has a shitbox VS V6 commo. Its making a hell of a raquet from the front of the engine. Gribble has a look, listens with his trusty peice of metal tube and finds the noise most prominent from the water pump. Next thing he goes and takes off the fan belt to see weather that makes a difference. Noise goes away! Order 1x water pump for this POS and fit it this afternoon.

Water pump fitted, noise is still friggin there! Same spot, same noise, same intensity of noise. Just to be sure to be sure, takes off the fan belt to make sure i didn't fark it up. Noise goes away! Put the fan belt BACK on, again, and re-check every single last belt driven device that a v6 commodore is fitted with. The noise is %100 coming from the water pump. I chuck a spaz, have a shower and drive off into the sunset to my mates house for a pissup.

Now, after consuming much alchohol at a party with other mechanic mates of mine we were having a think tank. It cant be the timing chain set otherwise it would make noise without the belt on, and besides that it sounds nothing like a timing chain. For the same reason it cannot be coming from the camshaft, lifters, rockers or rods, and its definately not a big end noise either.

Here is my somewhat assumption of what i think is now wrong and what ill be farking around with during the week. The condition of the coolant is best described as alfa-romeo, for the rusty color of it. No chunks came out when i drained it. But because the noise takes about 10 seconds after startup to rear its annoying as f*ck head im thinking that it could be a chunk of casting dag or swarf that is caught in the block or head and once a good amount of water flow is achieved it begins to slam around within the water jackets of the donk.

The second scenario is that something in the harmonic balancer is contacting when a load (the fan belt) is placed on it causing it to go cawkeyed. The balancer could be loose causing the tone wheel to contact the Crank Sensor. Which would explain why the noise goes away when the fan belt is removed.

During the week ill be popping off the water pump and giving the block a royal flushing. I really really hope i do see some chunks come out and when its all back together there is no noise. If it comes to it im also going to check that nothing on the balancer is loose or contacting. On second thoughts ill do that first because its alot easier to do than rip the pump off agian.



Anyways, if anyone else has any input to this problem id love to hear it, im open to all reasonable assumptions remembering that......

1. Ive checked all the pulleys that are fan belt driven, and they all turn free as Nelson Mandella.

2. The noise ONLY appears when the fan belt is fitted to the engine and.....

3. Its definately coming from or behind the water pump. No where else.

Thanking you all!

[Daisy]

harmonic balancer has shit itself

Put a new one on it and problem should be solved.

TOM

[Gribble]

harmonic balancer has shit itself

Put a new one on it and problem should be solved.

TOM

The more and more i think about it the more i think its that.

Thanks dude!

[460cixy]

definitly balencer have changed heaps of them. when there real bad thay run like a real pos worse than normal

[Gribble]

definitly balencer have changed heaps of them. when there real bad thay run like a real pos worse than normal

Im warming up the rattle gun now!

[mkpatrol]

Gribble, on the V6 commodore motors the water pumps are very weak & will show a lot of wear when they are stuffed. When you grab the pulley there will be a lot of play from side to side, even with the belt on. When I mean a lot I mean a lot, they usuallu throw the belt because of it.

As mentioned the balancer could be shot, what happens when the rubber separates is the three inner cast pins come into contact with the outer cast spokes. As they move back & forwards they sound like someone banging the block with a hammer & its loud. The way to check this is to leave the belt on, grab either the water pump or power steering pulley & try to turn the belt (engine off of course). If the belt will turn backwards & forwards easily the balancer is buggered. It will not turn otherwise other than with the engine.

Last one, the belt tensioner istelf, the spring can bugger up & cause the tensioner to bounce up & down causing a rattle. This is not a common one but I have come across it on VN engines which have a similar setup. The pulley on these can be noisy with load & quiet when checked with no load,

Good Luck.

[Ruffy]

Replaced heaps of balancers. The rubber shites itself and the outer seperates. There big lugs cast on the inside to stop the outer from spinning right round when this happens

[Loanrangie]

Sounds like a balancer, mine on the rangie flogged the keyway out and gave similar noises, annoying as fark and hard to diagnose till i took the belts off and grabbed hold of it and it would twist side to side causing the timing to be out 35 degrees.

[RUFF]

Its the Balancer. Before i even got as far as you mentioning the water pump i picked the balancer. Its the most common thing on a Como V6 to fail.

[Gribble]

Its the Balancer. Before i even got as far as you mentioning the water pump i picked the balancer. Its the most common thing on a Como V6 to fail.

I thought the crank sensors themselves were, anyways.........

[Beastmavster]

No the most common problem is that you have bought a commodore V6.



That about sums it up

[Gribble]

No the most common problem is that you have bought a commodore V6.



That about sums it up

I didn't buy it u cockhead, its my mates.
Learn to read, then you can bag me out.


For those with more constructive things to post, do you need a puller for the balancer on a v6 or should it just come off after undoing the bolt?

[mkpatrol]

No the most common problem is that you have bought a commodore V6.



That about sums it up

I didn't buy it u cockhead, its my mates.
Learn to read, then you can bag me out.


For those with more constructive things to post, do you need a puller for the balancer on a v6 or should it just come off after undoing the bolt?

Beastmavster, the V6 is actually quite a reliable engine (compared to the Ford equivalent).

Gribble, you will need a puller but sometimes they do come of without one. Plenty of cats piss & a couple of levers in behind being careful not to break the crank angle sensor. Speaking of crank angle sensors you should replace this while you are in there as the balance has probably damaged it & its only a matter of time before it craps.

[Jimbo]

I deffenately needed a puller for mine. However the hardest part of the job was getting the bolt lose. I tried everything from just using the starter (with spanner attached) to rattle gun and could not get it off. We bent one kinda crappy breaker bar....snapped 1 sicrome breaker bar and then finally got it of with a nice long breaker bar and poll combination. Once it was off we had to stuff around with the puller an wallah it came off.

Put the new one on and all those shitty noises went away...Easy

[Gribble]

No the most common problem is that you have bought a commodore V6.



That about sums it up

I didn't buy it u cockhead, its my mates.
Learn to read, then you can bag me out.


For those with more constructive things to post, do you need a puller for the balancer on a v6 or should it just come off after undoing the bolt?

Beastmavster, the V6 is actually quite a reliable engine (compared to the Ford equivalent).

Gribble, you will need a puller but sometimes they do come of without one. Plenty of cats piss & a couple of levers in behind being careful not to break the crank angle sensor. Speaking of crank angle sensors you should replace this while you are in there as the balance has probably damaged it & its only a matter of time before it craps.

Ill find one who has a/the puller for the job, i cant be bothered rooting around with levers and rost off etc etc.

The dude im fixing it for isn't the most cashed up person i know, so ill leave the crank sensor until it dies, at least if ive taken the pulley off now it will be easier in the near future.

[Guy]

Are you sure that he cant cough up a $50 for a new sensor while your at it ?? (Have not looked at the proce for a very long time so may be a bit fuzzy on the cost, but I am pretty sure thats all they are worth)..

I would let your mate know and see how he feels.

[Gribble]

Are you sure that he cant cough up a $50 for a new sensor while your at it ?? (Have not looked at the proce for a very long time so may be a bit fuzzy on the cost, but I am pretty sure thats all they are worth)..

I would let your mate know and see how he feels.

If they are THAT cheap then yeh ill try to convince him. Ill get a price when i get the balancer.

[DamTriton]

Are you sure that he cant cough up a $50 for a new sensor while your at it ?? (Have not looked at the proce for a very long time so may be a bit fuzzy on the cost, but I am pretty sure thats all they are worth)..

I would let your mate know and see how he feels.

If they are THAT cheap then yeh ill try to convince him. Ill get a price when i get the balancer.

Shout the guy a new sensor, that way you won't have to worry about it again....

[Gribble]

Are you sure that he cant cough up a $50 for a new sensor while your at it ?? (Have not looked at the proce for a very long time so may be a bit fuzzy on the cost, but I am pretty sure thats all they are worth)..

I would let your mate know and see how he feels.

If they are THAT cheap then yeh ill try to convince him. Ill get a price when i get the balancer.

Shout the guy a new sensor, that way you won't have to worry about it again....

Shout? Im a mechanic, i rip people off for a living!

[460cixy]

No the most common problem is that you have bought a commodore V6.



That about sums it up

I didn't buy it u cockhead, its my mates.
Learn to read, then you can bag me out.


For those with more constructive things to post, do you need a puller for the balancer on a v6 or should it just come off after undoing the bolt?

Beastmavster, the V6 is actually quite a reliable engine (compared to the Ford equivalent).

Gribble, you will need a puller but sometimes they do come of without one. Plenty of cats piss & a couple of levers in behind being careful not to break the crank angle sensor. Speaking of crank angle sensors you should replace this while you are in there as the balance has probably damaged it & its only a matter of time before it craps.

fark are you in dream land or something? how many crapodoore v6 have you seen do over a million k? if thay were so crash hot and reliable then every taxi in australia would be a comie fucked lifters fucked rear main seals fucked gueids seals and valves balencers ect come to mind and yes you need a puller and do the crank angle while its off cause it will only be a week or so and it will die too.

[Gribble]

No the most common problem is that you have bought a commodore V6.



That about sums it up

I didn't buy it u cockhead, its my mates.
Learn to read, then you can bag me out.


For those with more constructive things to post, do you need a puller for the balancer on a v6 or should it just come off after undoing the bolt?

Beastmavster, the V6 is actually quite a reliable engine (compared to the Ford equivalent).

Gribble, you will need a puller but sometimes they do come of without one. Plenty of cats piss & a couple of levers in behind being careful not to break the crank angle sensor. Speaking of crank angle sensors you should replace this while you are in there as the balance has probably damaged it & its only a matter of time before it craps.

fark are you in dream land or something? how many crapodoore v6 have you seen do over a million k? if thay were so crash hot and reliable then every taxi in australia would be a comie ***** lifters ***** rear main seals ***** gueids seals and valves balencers ect come to mind and yes you need a puller and do the crank angle while its off cause it will only be a week or so and it will die too.

And where do we start on falcons?

They are both shitboxes, get over the whole ford/holden thing.

[V8Patrol]

And where do we start on falcons?

RIGHT HERE


http://www.v6supercharged.com.au/prototype.asp

Interesting reading for the V6 enthousist......

Then if that doesnt tweak ya nipples try this one......
http://www.v6supercharged.com.au/video.asp
The one thats worth looking at is the download at the bottom of all the others

The Ford has the same slick tyres, and major engine and gearbox work, with high stall converter. You can't even hear the Turbo Mule over all the noise and agro the XD V8 is producing.

The XD V8 would be lucky to drive around the block without getting a "yellow sticker" hence why it had to be carried on a trailer to the ¼ mile track, whilst the Turbo Mule just cruised on down. We thought this video was interesting as it illustrates the contrasting difference between big heavily worked V8, and stock S/C V6 motor converted to turbo.

Just goes to show you don't need a lot of noise to go fast, and you certainly don't need a big V8 with 5.8 litres work of capacity either. Turbo V6's will do the same, quicker, quieter, more efficiently and have enough fuel to drive home, and still maintain day-to-day drive-ability. The XD V8 would be lucky to achieve 250km distance out of a tank of fuel where as the Turbo Mule car achieves consistent 450km out of a tank of fuel

Oh and I stumbled on this site by accident too by the way...... The reason being that I'm looking to upgrade the powerplant in the VH commodore bashcar....... now is a injected V8 an upgrade or is a V6 the GO ?


Kingy

[bad_religion_au]

And where do we start on falcons?

RIGHT HERE


http://www.v6supercharged.com.au/prototype.asp

Interesting reading for the V6 enthousist......

Then if that doesnt tweak ya nipples try this one......
http://www.v6supercharged.com.au/video.asp
The one thats worth looking at is the download at the bottom of all the others

The Ford has the same slick tyres, and major engine and gearbox work, with high stall converter. You can't even hear the Turbo Mule over all the noise and agro the XD V8 is producing.

The XD V8 would be lucky to drive around the block without getting a "yellow sticker" hence why it had to be carried on a trailer to the ¼ mile track, whilst the Turbo Mule just cruised on down. We thought this video was interesting as it illustrates the contrasting difference between big heavily worked V8, and stock S/C V6 motor converted to turbo.

Just goes to show you don't need a lot of noise to go fast, and you certainly don't need a big V8 with 5.8 litres work of capacity either. Turbo V6's will do the same, quicker, quieter, more efficiently and have enough fuel to drive home, and still maintain day-to-day drive-ability. The XD V8 would be lucky to achieve 250km distance out of a tank of fuel where as the Turbo Mule car achieves consistent 450km out of a tank of fuel

Oh and I stumbled on this site by accident too by the way...... The reason being that I'm looking to upgrade the powerplant in the VH commodore bashcar....... now is a injected V8 an upgrade or is a V6 the GO ?


Kingy

so if we want to start a p!ssing match, someone whip out the link for the 10 second xr6 turbo

and yes where do you start on the falcons? ok, the 3.9 from the EA cracks heads, get over it. next?

[bad_religion_au]

Shout? Im a mechanic, i rip people off for a living!

so charge it to someone elses invoice

[Gribble]

Shout? Im a mechanic, i rip people off for a living!

so charge it to someone elses invoice

[mkpatrol]

And where do we start on falcons?

RIGHT HERE


http://www.v6supercharged.com.au/prototype.asp

Interesting reading for the V6 enthousist......

Then if that doesnt tweak ya nipples try this one......
http://www.v6supercharged.com.au/video.asp
The one thats worth looking at is the download at the bottom of all the others

The Ford has the same slick tyres, and major engine and gearbox work, with high stall converter. You can't even hear the Turbo Mule over all the noise and agro the XD V8 is producing.

The XD V8 would be lucky to drive around the block without getting a "yellow sticker" hence why it had to be carried on a trailer to the ¼ mile track, whilst the Turbo Mule just cruised on down. We thought this video was interesting as it illustrates the contrasting difference between big heavily worked V8, and stock S/C V6 motor converted to turbo.

Just goes to show you don't need a lot of noise to go fast, and you certainly don't need a big V8 with 5.8 litres work of capacity either. Turbo V6's will do the same, quicker, quieter, more efficiently and have enough fuel to drive home, and still maintain day-to-day drive-ability. The XD V8 would be lucky to achieve 250km distance out of a tank of fuel where as the Turbo Mule car achieves consistent 450km out of a tank of fuel

Oh and I stumbled on this site by accident too by the way...... The reason being that I'm looking to upgrade the powerplant in the VH commodore bashcar....... now is a injected V8 an upgrade or is a V6 the GO ?


Kingy

so if we want to start a p!ssing match, someone whip out the link for the 10 second xr6 turbo

and yes where do you start on the falcons? ok, the 3.9 from the EA cracks heads, get over it. next?

Cracks heads, blows head gaskets quicker then a Kings Cross hooker, plastic timing chain guides, sieze the oil pump/distributor drive for no reason, porus heads, oil leaks from everywhere that can leak oil, weak AC compressors (EF-AU), rattly lifters, snapping heasd bolts, EVER CHANGED A SET OF LEADS ON ONE WITH DISTRIBUTORLESS IGNITION?, crap front brakes, rear calipers which seize constantly, shitty front hand brake cables (cannot remember EVER replacing one of these on any Commodore) & these are the things which I can remember clearly. All these problems occur on EA-AU, the 3.9 is exactly the same as the 4.0. Don't get me started on Magnas

Yes the bottom end will do a million K's as they are never cold but the rest of the shit around will be replaced before that. One of the reasons for the V6's not being used as Taxi's is because they don't run well on gas which is not really a concern to the average motorist.

In my 13 years in the trade I only had the heads off two V6's (one had hit a wombat & driven until it was in the red) & replaced two engines (both had been neglected badly). Worst problem with Comodores was the electrics but most of that was fairly cheap to fix. I didnt say Commodores were perfect but in my opinion Ford should be shot for releasing such a bad product initially.

When I was at tafe we went over to the local ford dealer & almost every EA they has sold had the head replaced under warranty (1988) & I replaced my first one 6 months later.

Just my experience thats all.

[460cixy]

meh lets not start on the coils and rear mains cracked manifolds legs out of bed crank angle sensors balencers engine check lights that wont turn off when theres no faults on the ecu. go the rattle tec v6 i say goes like nuts and bolts in a blender.

[460cixy]

fark i allmost forgot the center bearings in the tail shaft extension housing seal starter motors and that gay cast iron inspection covers on the early models when you have to change that shift when it feels like it or not at all auto. lets start a pissing comp mate cause sure as shit you will lose with that holden crap. i will ad more after dinner when i remember what its like changeing the nignition barrels and stearing colems after the local hoons have stolen them. in LESS than a minuite

[SLOGQ]

Series 1 V6 the balancer is a clearence fit in the nose of the crank (will slide straight off) Series 2 u will need a puller..........

Series 2 balancers have 3 slots in the front for a puller.

There are also 2 diffrent sizes for the exciter ring for the crank angle sensor, get it wrong and your nice new sensor will be shagged

[Beastmavster]

Agreed... ea was total sh1t. I was of the understanding that most of the ea issues were fixed when the 4 litre came around.

But as far as the pi55ing match goes..... I proudly drive Japcrap and always have

I like knowing I can rely on my car.....

As opposed to all of my friends who have bought brand new commodore v6's. I dont know one who hasnt faced ALL the following problems at some point during their lifetime - all factory serviced vehicles....


Valve stem failure. (in one case before the first service - VTII S pack V6) first service = engine => bin
Power steering failure.
100,000km transmission failure. (Actually had two mates pop theirs in one weekend at 103,000 and 105,000 respectively)
Broken belts due to length and convoluted path.
Massive oil consumption (Especially VS engines)
Harmonic balancer problems and vibration problems

There were issues with coil failure but these did not affect every vehicle,

Most of these problems ranged from VN to VTII and many were not fixed during the whole series, although Vn and Vs were the two worst batches of all.

Cannot comment on later models since most of them will not buy commodore v6's again - although a couple did buy v8's with less problems. (one had big big probelms with his v8 gen3 though)

Reliable....... your call...... but I wouldnt put my hard earned on one.