Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I have been pondering this for a while - ever since I found out how much JetA1 fuel we throw out at work. Can JetA1 which is basically refined Kero be mixed with diesel to give better performance or better economy. Just a thought?

i cant see it doing any harm but i could be wrong. i had a claped out hj45 diesel and used to mix around 10 liters of petrol to a tank of diesel just to get the Cookie to start in the morning

i used to have a hand sprayer of petrol to start the tractor in the morning when it was below 0. remove the air cleaner, prime the pump, hit the glow plug, wait for it to 'pop' then crank it over while spraying petrol into the air intake....started every time.....

Greg

I don't know but this study came up with a figure of 30% kero with diesel as reducing emissions.

http://www.ieindia.org/publish/mc/0404/apr04mc1.pdf

I suppose it would also be like mixing your own winter diesel. If it was me then I would like to know more before putting my engine at risk.

I have used it before in my cruiser. A bloke I know does it all the time with his patrol. He mixes in 2litres of two stroke oil to 200L because it its a drier fuel than diesel

It is a drier fuel and it also burns alot hotter, its not a got idea because it will stuff your engine, I work in the aerial ag industry and the pilots use JETA1 in the work utes, one only lasted about 20 000 KM

i doubt it would be good long term. all the seals in the pump would be suited to diesel, not Jet A1? Maybe not enough lubricant in the jet a1. Even if you had to do a pump rebuild every year (~$900), you might work out ahead given the current price of diesel.

given the cost of rebuilding diesel, i would thoroughly check it out with people that really know what they are talking about.

Yeah -wasn't really planning to do it, Was sitting there the other day and just thought " hmm - has simular properties to diesel, cheap - would it work"-
I wouldn't just start adding it unless somebody (that actually knows) said mix at so and so rate and won't do any damage.
Thanks

Have seen blokes use 50/50 AVTUR (basically jet A1 with FSII and milspec lube added) and diesel. Used for the same reason your thinking of it, a lot gets thrown out.
I cant recall anyone stateing this did any damage, thtas not to say it didnt happen.
Would be interesting to see what the exhaust temps were on straight diesel and then with a progressively greater amount of jet A1 added.
Any takers?

Where abouts are you BOB?? i could think of several other uses for free fuel

Used to drive trucks
some blokes used to put 5 litre's of petrol to 1000 litre's of diesel to clean the injector's out and blow flames out the exhaust 4 foot long
so i don't think your motor whould last to long if done often

I work with millitary aircraft and I used to run Jet A1 with "fuel system icing inhibitor"(FSII) added. This acts as both a lubricant and it kills bacterior that grows in the layer between fuel and water. For jet A1, it is basically the same as putting avgas into a petrol engine. It burns slightly hotter and doesn't lubricate as much. On a fairly standard motor you can run straight jet A1 with no diesel as long as you use a valve lubricant addative like used in leaded engines for unleaded fuel. Or if you have access to mil spec avtur then you won't need it.

It will depend on your engine, later models won't like it, earlier low tech engines will probably tolerate it.
My humvee is ex-USAF so I'd reckon it has spent most of its life running on jetfuel.
Mixing it with diesel would be the go and for peace of mind fit a EGT so you can compare temps with and without jet.

post 97 aus diesels should run viton seals and will be ok with avgas ie doesnt need the lubritcity of sulphur. temp is the onl.y thing I can thik of, and the two stock oil thing would probably inhibit the burn and cool it down

According to my reading currently the cetane spec on diesel fuels is a minimum of 40. There is no minimum spec for Jet A (using ASTM D-1655 specification)

Sounds a bit hit-and-miss, in that if the cetane is higher than 40 you will get more performance but if it is below 40 you wont.

More can be read at :

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/edit ... n&-nothing

Tom Sheppard covers the topic on P26-15 of his excellent book 'Vehicle-dependent Expedition Guide' intended for those who travel to remote locations and may need to try different fuels. He outlines that in Canada, pure Jet-A is run in diesel engines to lower the cloud point (waxing) to -48 deg C.

On page 2.6-16, Tom advocates the use of 'lubricity additives' to compensate for the Jet-A once it exceeds 50%. Apparently some US injector pump maufacturers make 'Arctic' pumps to compensate for low lubricity diesel but Lucas and Bosch do not consider it necessary.

Have run a mix for years with no problems at all. 50/50 was what I used to run. Get a white spirits drum and take it away. Just don't get caught. Could be deemed as theft as most of the fuel and oil is recycled. But give it a go. Works a treat.. Slight power gain as well.

I don't know how u can get a slight power gain 82 lux, It gives about 80% power compared to diesel and runs hotter too. It's dryer so it's good to jam a few hundred mils of oil in per tank too. Why haven't you started yet?

More info ..

In my previous post I referred to Diesel having a Cetane rating of 40. Seems this is for the US. In another post on another Oz forum there is the following quote:

"our cetane number at Mobil refinery is a consistant 52 > 53 leaving the refinery , all the refinerys in Australia run very close specs"

see http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=F ... c&start=15

If this is so, it further undermines the possibility of a performance gain from Jet-A

ozhumvee wrote:It will depend on your engine, later models won't like it, earlier low tech engines will probably tolerate it.
My humvee is ex-USAF so I'd reckon it has spent most of its life running on jetfuel.
Mixing it with diesel would be the go and for peace of mind fit a EGT so you can compare temps with and without jet.

Nah wouldnt have been JETA1. Thats the good stuff, that I think most of the world uses comercially. Also most jet/turbo prop A/C use in aus including Mil stuff. But the Yanks (defence) use JP-8 which is a crap fuel. And life spans of every thing that runs on it is reduced. But they can justifie the expanse. Also it helps with logistics. As everything that is supposed to run on Jet fuel or diesel is retuned to run on JP-8. So when they goto war they only need one type of fuel to cater for 90% of there fleet.
Toughnut maybe able to confirm or deny. Since I think he said he had spent abit of time in Pakistan so may have worked with the US Defence forces.