Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I know that this question is getting hammered heaps but its really hard to get some no fuss to the point answers!!

I have a 1989 WT Sierra. I want to swap the 1.3 for a 1.6 carby 8v Vitara motor. Thats it.

What do i need apart from the long engine and adaptor plate AND what is a fair price for a second hand engine??? ( In Perth by the way ) Do i have to change anything?? etc Engine mounts, starter motor???

Any help would be great

Thanks
Marc

if you are going to a vit motor why not opt for the more powerful 1.6 EFI ?

The Great Gonzo wrote:if you are going to a vit motor why not opt for the more powerful 1.6 EFI ?

Or a far more uncommon, harder to find, harder to install but way more fun F6A 660cc Turbo...

The Great Gonzo wrote:if you are going to a vit motor why not opt for the more powerful 1.6 EFI ?

might be an issue for engineering/legality in some states.

Easier to do the carby engine, but not as satisfying I'm sure.

No no i want the carby 1.6. Nice and easy i dont want anything out of the ordinary just a slight power upgrade. Is it hard??

NO !!!!

are you using a sierra Box ?? guessing so !!!!

need to add some width to the bellhousing !!!
the Vit bolt pattern , is wider !!!

the top bolts need to be drilled out to 1/2" , also the starter motor holes need to be made larger !!!!

you can either go Vit Hi-tourqe starter , or use ya sierra 1 !!!
need to linish some of the block away to clear the sierra starter !!!

give a mate of mine a ring !!!! its a Melbourne No. !!!
03 9761 4694 !!! Joe !!! 4PLAY OFFROAD !!!!
does only Zook Mods & work !!!!!

can give you engine $$$ & advice !!!!

Definitely no expert but my experience so far:

*Carby makes life much simpler
*Starter motor- you'll have to find one of the small Vitara ones there's too much grinding to do on the standard one. I have an OEX one, PN RXS249
*Oil Pan - my RRO kit said unless you have a 3" lift you need to change the oil pick up and adapt the 1.3 oil pan on. I reckon if you moved your front axle abt 2" forward you'd clear as well (Hmmm how hard is that to do??)
*Engine mount- the RHS engine mount needs to be adapted. If you buy one of the kits it'll come with em.

Well after alot of phone calls and research here is what i thought was the best deal around here.

1.6 block and a 1.3 head, fully reconditioned, everything done. $2250
Adaptor kit to 1.3 to 1.6. $495
Fitting ( Done by the same guys ). $450
Total $3195

Does that seem like a good buy? I can get a SECONDHAND one fitted for $2250 but its second hand, might of done 200,000kms you just dont know.
OR i can get just the engine secondhand for $850 and try and do everything myself.

Not sure really what the best way to go is, PLEASE HELP

Cheers in advance
Marc

shark
the best way is to PISS the carby idea off and for the same moola you could have a EFI installed.why waste your money.not meaning to confuse you by all means if you want the carb go for it but efi is soooooooo much better.

what about 1.3 efi (Gti)????????

mike wrote: I reckon if you moved your front axle abt 2" forward you'd clear as well (Hmmm how hard is that to do??)

rear springs up front

2 Cents worth................ EFI !!!

Shark wrote:Well after alot of phone calls and research here is what i thought was the best deal around here.

1.6 block and a 1.3 head, fully reconditioned, everything done. $2250
Adaptor kit to 1.3 to 1.6. $495
Fitting ( Done by the same guys ). $450
Total $3195

Does that seem like a good buy? I can get a SECONDHAND one fitted for $2250 but its second hand, might of done 200,000kms you just dont know.
OR i can get just the engine secondhand for $850 and try and do everything myself.

Not sure really what the best way to go is, PLEASE HELP

Cheers in advance
Marc

I'd also budget for a new heavy duty clutch unless yours is in great nic. (the 1.3 clutch is used in this conversion)
Another factor in the EFI route is the exhaust manifold is different.
I think I'm gonna luv my EFI once it's on the road but so far I'm 4 months down the track... over 4.5k down with a further 1.6k bill in dispute... and it's still not useable :-( ouch...

hmm... that's no good at all

N*A*M wrote:hmm... that's no good at all

not wrong about that...

the cheapest i got quoted to fit an EFI Vitara engine into my sierra was 800 inc gst... the most expensive was 1200 inc gst... both of these quotes were ontop of what ever the engine cost (1850 - 2500)...

but even the most expensive of these two options only amount to 3700...

I hope yours turns out well Mike - it's clear you are going to have put a packet into it by the time its done.

best of luck.

Shark wrote:Well after alot of phone calls and research here is what i thought was the best deal around here.

1.6 block and a 1.3 head, fully reconditioned, everything done. $2250
Adaptor kit to 1.3 to 1.6. $495
Fitting ( Done by the same guys ). $450
Total $3195

Does that seem like a good buy? I can get a SECONDHAND one fitted for $2250 but its second hand, might of done 200,000kms you just dont know.
OR i can get just the engine secondhand for $850 and try and do everything myself.

Not sure really what the best way to go is, PLEASE HELP

Cheers in advance
Marc

If you were in Brissy I'd say take my spare Vitara gearbox/transfercase and my engine and I'll get and EFI one to put in mine instead

I would just run with the entire 1.6 motor head carb intake the lot, I run a carb 1.6 with a 1.3 head running 1.6 exhaust valves (produces better low end and a bit better high end mid range is so so) with a 1.3 intake and a 1.6 carb. The carb tends to ice up a bit on really cold days as the 1.3 intake does not seem to floe enuff hot water to keep it ice free.
As for EFI I have found I have long since run out of traction and or nerve long before the motor runs outa fuel due to starvation .. (vehicle has run laying on the passager side as well as was still pulling 3000 rpm when I could get the front end no closer than 2 feet to the ground in front of me due to the steepness of the hill I was attempting to climb and provided enough torque to begin to crush a boxed rear spring pads)

If I were to do it again I would still do the carbed and use the money i didnt spend on the PITA that is the EFI computer and loom on maybe some lockers or perhaps a winch ..

Will take a few digi pics of my setup tommorow.

love_mud wrote:As for EFI I have found I have long since run out of traction and or nerve long before the motor runs outa fuel due to starvation .. (vehicle has run laying on the passager side as well as was still pulling 3000 rpm when I could get the front end no closer than 2 feet to the ground in front of me due to the steepness of the hill I was attempting to climb and provided enough torque to begin to crush a boxed rear spring pads)

If I were to do it again I would still do the carbed and use the money i didnt spend on the PITA that is the EFI computer and loom on maybe some lockers or perhaps a winch ..

This is true Guy - it may not be very frequent that any of us are pushing our cars to the point that fuel starvation becomes an issue - but when it does - it quickly becomes a major PITA.

For example, when we went out to Toolangi a few months ago with a Pinzgauer, we went and had a look at Killer Hill (a steep off camber piece of track)... Now the Pinzgauer had been unstoppable so far for the whole day and had done every track just as easily, if not easier than the G-Wagon, but once it got half way up killer kill it stalled out, started again, coughed and spluttered etc for a good 10 minutes before eventually the owner of the car opted to back down the track again and take an easier route.

Now we had just gotten the G-wagon up it, and we know that in every right the Pinzgauer should have made it (afterall - it still had 5 out of 6 wheels on the ground) - but it couldn't do so because of the fuel starvation issues it had being a carbie engine.

The Point? - having / not having Fuel injection is going to be the same as having / not having lockers... eventually you will get to a piece of track that you know you would be able to drive if you have it, but you don't, so you can't.

And, if you have an opportunity to pick between a locker and open diffs - you would pick a locker right? I think that a smart decision is to pick EFI over a carby with future driving requirements in mind.

Cheers.

greg wrote:

love_mud wrote:As for EFI I have found I have long since run out of traction and or nerve long before the motor runs outa fuel due to starvation .. (vehicle has run laying on the passager side as well as was still pulling 3000 rpm when I could get the front end no closer than 2 feet to the ground in front of me due to the steepness of the hill I was attempting to climb and provided enough torque to begin to crush a boxed rear spring pads)

If I were to do it again I would still do the carbed and use the money i didnt spend on the PITA that is the EFI computer and loom on maybe some lockers or perhaps a winch ..

This is true Guy - it may not be very frequent that any of us are pushing our cars to the point that fuel starvation becomes an issue - but when it does - it quickly becomes a major PITA.

For example, when we went out to Toolangi a few months ago with a Pinzgauer, we went and had a look at Killer Hill (a steep off camber piece of track)... Now the Pinzgauer had been unstoppable so far for the whole day and had done every track just as easily, if not easier than the G-Wagon, but once it got half way up killer kill it stalled out, started again, coughed and spluttered etc for a good 10 minutes before eventually the owner of the car opted to back down the track again and take an easier route.

Now we had just gotten the G-wagon up it, and we know that in every right the Pinzgauer should have made it (afterall - it still had 5 out of 6 wheels on the ground) - but it couldn't do so because of the fuel starvation issues it had being a carbie engine.

The Point? - having / not having Fuel injection is going to be the same as having / not having lockers... eventually you will get to a piece of track that you know you would be able to drive if you have it, but you don't, so you can't.

And, if you have an opportunity to pick between a locker and open diffs - you would pick a locker right? I think that a smart decision is to pick EFI over a carby with future driving requirements in mind.

Cheers.

If you wanna do it cheap and easy go carby. If fuel starvation becomes and issue go turbo and LPG on the 8v motor.

As I said I'd go EFI - but that's on a Vitara not on a Sierra, and I can plug all the EFI stuff straight into my loom except for the fuel pump.

It's bad enought trying to put the motor in a smaller car without doing the EFI conversion too - I've done a few engine conversions in 2wd cars and there's always at least 2-3 times as many pointelss problems as you expect or budget for.

I think if EFI is your thing then there's cheaper and easier motors to use than a Vitara motor - the benefit in using the Vitara motor as opposed to say a 13b turbo rotary, a 4AGZE Corolla or a 3.8 V6 is the fact that they are relatively easy to swap. Don't complicate it by worrying about EFI unless you're sure you can either handle it yourself or have the contacts who can - there's far too many EFI engine swap horror stories and "cheap half finished project cars out there where original budgets double or triple.

Greg all good points .. no denyiong it .. but if going EFI costs to many $$ right now then the carbie 1.6 swap is still good, but most of all its very simple .. hell I did the wireing on mine .. that was about 6 years ago, never touched it again.. did it in one hit . lets see any home grown EFI conversion do that ..
I will most likley do an LP gas swap myself, due to it's simplicity (and its easier on emmisons) but I have been very happy for a long time with my vitara carb and motor ..

i stripped and spliced my vitara 1.6efi loom into my spook.its not hard if youve got a wiring diagram.

Just a quick question guys when changing over the oil pickup and sump ( Oil pan ) is it a straight swap ie 1.3 sump to 1.6 block or does it require some re manufacturing. Gonna attempt to install the engine my self.

Anyone know what a second hand 1.6 8v carby motor should go for. In perth the prices are all over the place.

Cheers
Marc

Shark wrote:Just a quick question guys when changing over the oil pickup and sump ( Oil pan ) is it a straight swap ie 1.3 sump to 1.6 block or does it require some re manufacturing. Gonna attempt to install the engine my self.

Anyone know what a second hand 1.6 8v carby motor should go for. In perth the prices are all over the place.

Cheers
Marc

Good advice from Mud4b in this thread:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6544

mud4b wrote:shark
the best way is to PISS the carby idea off and for the same moola you could have a EFI installed.why waste your money.not meaning to confuse you by all means if you want the carb go for it but efi is soooooooo much better.

You reckon you can do it for the same money? Yeah right.....

For starters the 16V efi motor is normally more expensive by a few hundred bucks than the carby one.

To get all the EFI components (manifold injectors and all the required sensors and computer) you're looking at probably a grand for the factory efi. This doesn't come with an engine from the wreckers - those prices are bare engine prices (likewise the 8V carby has no carby either, but you're looking at a couple of hundred secondhand for the carby and it's done).

If you can do all the work yourself without a wiring diagram, you will still need an uprated electric external fuel pump, (Say another $130 or so for a good one).

Suzisport offered me this as a kit for a pretty reasonable amount - but I was still looking at a grand to put these bits on top of my existing carby engine instead.

If you want programmable EFI add another $500 and then a few hundred more to tune it.....

Still tossing it up - supercharged EFI sounds good - but so does Supercharged twin SU's for about 1/3 the price.

Turbo will cost about the same as supercharged.

Personally if your engine is fine blow some horsepower into it......

That's just on the engine side - how are you mating it up to the gearbox??? Add some more dollars here too.....

i HAVE done it twice now.one had a wolf 3d running the first and the currant has a std computer.i make my own adaptor kits now.i used the std vitara fuel pump......where the hell do you buy your motors from?ive just got another efi frontcut for $1800 and have to make an adaptor kit for $20
then install it into another coily for a mate.by the time im finished it will cost him around $1900 to $2000.............not bad for the performance eh.

Hey mud4b, you say that installing the efi 16v is quite easy??? I have finally decided to spend the extra bucks and get the efi. I can get evrything i need from suzishop for around the $2200 mark ( Ins gst ) What i wanna know is how hard these are to install.

1. Can i use my gearbox that i have now??

2. How hard is it really to wire in, be honest now:)

3. What adaptions do i have to make eg. engine mounts, bell housing etc.

4. Does anything have to be angle grinded??

Im not really mechanically minded but i thought i would give it a go, one of my brothers mates is a mechanic so if i get stuck he can help us out. Is it a weekend job or is it a month job. Sorry about the ammount of questions but you seem to have alot of experience in the area

Cheers in advance for your help

Marc

ok shark good to hear your going the efi.not knowing your skills i cant say that it will be easy for you(you should be fine if youve got some.plus
a mech.to back you up)
#1do you have a 5 speed?if so it will fit.not sure if you have a 4 speed as i have not messed around with one.
#2 the wiring loom can be tricky(if you have an auto loom)you need a wiring diagram.go from that and start stripping out all the things you dont need.you will end up with the wires that come from the e.c.m only.you only need to hook up two wires to your o.g suzuki fuse box.or for a easier way you can use the complete vitara loom and replace the sierra loom completly.then all you need to hook up is your signal and wiper switches and the loom that runs to the rear.and your instruments.the colour of the wires mostly matches between looms.....use your diagram.
#3if you dont buy a adaptor kit you will need to make one.for your g-box plate line the sierra and vitara o.g plates up from the bottom,then from the 2 holes at the top.(these are the only bits that line up)and trace around them.use the sierra starter hole not the vitara.once this is made sit it on the engine and you will have to mark out another plate to mount the starter.you can use your og sierra engine mounting plates(but vitara rubber mounts)and slot the holes.

ran out of room.

#4 the only grinding besides the making of your adaptor kit will be the o.g sierra starter(if you use it,ive heard of other starters you can use)
you need to shave a sparrows fart from the side that faces the block.other than that it will all fit.

if you need more details of the loom or anything please send a pm or e-mail as im happy to help out.

ps when you get your engine make sure they tell you what year model and swb or lwb.this will determin the loom diagram you need.

mud4b wrote:i HAVE done it twice now.one had a wolf 3d running the first and the currant has a std computer.i make my own adaptor kits now.i used the std vitara fuel pump......where the hell do you buy your motors from?ive just got another efi frontcut for $1800 and have to make an adaptor kit for $20
then install it into another coily for a mate.by the time im finished it will cost him around $1900 to $2000.............not bad for the performance eh.

$1800 for an efi frontcut is pretty good.... some places quoted me more than that for a bare engine.

I was looking at a best price of about $1100 for a bare EFI engine - got my carby engine for $800 bare. I got quoted as much as $2000 for an EFI engine and $1700 for a carby engine......

Prices did vary quite a lot so it certainly pays to shop around.

If you have the standard Vitara EFI pump that's fine, but it wont be in the half cut......

Hey Mark yes i have a five speed, the guys where i am buying the engine from have done a few conversions before. They said they could help me with a homemade adaptor kit, you know the welding etc but the wiring information is what i need. I will get the information regarding where the engine has come from tomorrow and then i will let you know. Cheers
Marc