Outer Limits 4x4 Board

4wheelingSA magazine is doing a tech article on the 9500lb "chinese" winches. Full strip down and inspection (electrical and mechanical) followed by some serious attempts at killing it.
We are also testing it for temp, time and amps back to back against a Warn 9500i.

I would like to include some feedback from owners of these winches. A few paragraphs on what you have done with it, what has broken/failed, how long you've had it and whether you are happy with it. Some pics of either the winch being used or just the front of your vehicle would be good too.

If you're interested in contributing send a few words (Microsoft Word preferred) and photos and your name to fourwheelingsa@optusnet.com.au

Thanks in advance

(to download the mag in pdf format - its a freebie - go to www.4wheelingsa.org )

I'd be very interested to see the results when its done - can you post them up here when the testing is finished?

Cossie wrote:I'd be very interested to see the results when its done - can you post them up here when the testing is finished?

It will be a 3 or 4 page tech article in the 4wheelingSA magazine which is free and non-commercial. Autumn edition should be available on first of March.

I should also say that doing this testing is a DIRECT RESULT of questions about these winches coming up so often here on OL. Like our previous front vs rear difflock test and IPF Fatboy globe tests its just regular 4WDers thoroughly testing products that they have bought.
No commercial bias, influence or agenda.

How did you test front versus rear difllock by the way?

Beastmavster wrote:How did you test front versus rear difllock by the way?

Click here and find out:
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/4wheelingSA/ ... 021-30.pdf

Andrew - you need to fix the link...

Your difflock test is interesting - would be interesting to repeat the test using a range of vehicles though. And on other/steeper hills. I think that the steeper the hill, the more the rear locker would win-out.

ISUZUROVER wrote:Andrew - you need to fix the link...

Thanks for that. I didnt notice that ) had snuck into the addy.

ISUZUROVER wrote:Your difflock test is interesting - would be interesting to repeat the test using a range of vehicles though. And on other/steeper hills. I think that the steeper the hill, the more the rear locker would win-out.

You have to also allow for the fact that if the Patrol didnt have a rear locker at all there would an excellent LSD in there which further adds to the argument that a front is better if you only want one.

Maybe not for the next issue but we are going to do the difflock test again using a 90 series (IFS) Prado.

I sent you a little report on my experience with the chinese winchs no photos though

kingchevy wrote:I sent you a little report on my experience with the chinese winchs no photos though

Thanks. Got it. Thats what we want - first hand experience.

Given your location and occupation are there any comments you can add on other winches or winches in general?

Yeah the x9 series winchs are complete rubbish as well with a badly designed motor and gearbox setup.There is also no such thing as a waterproof winch I dont care what anyone says I have seen alot of winchs in my time and there all end up water damaged if you drive through water. Most of the warn series of winch are all exellent I dont see to many for repairs also the magnum winchs wernt that bad but I dont think they make them anymore. Other than that I cant tell you a hell of alot more except the winch I run on my car.

On my truck I run a warn 8000lb high mount with the 6hp motor upgrade and gearbox breather setup and this winch has to be the best setup for anybody who wants to do serious winching I have flogged this winch to death and it has never let me down once and beleive me I use it ever weekend from winching people along the beach to out of insane bogs to well you get the idea. And the bueaty of it was that it was cheap I found a guy who had a high mount that was stuffed sitting in his shed with a good gearbox. I also had a complety shagged one sitting home I sent both of them to s.g leslies and got them rebuilt and upgraded to the 6hp motor for get this 1400 including freight
so for a total cost of 1500-1600 I had a comp winch I know you can get a old worn out high mount for about 500 around the place and get the same conversion done. why buy a 2000 dollar low mount

AJ wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:Andrew - you need to fix the link...

You have to also allow for the fact that if the Patrol didnt have a rear locker at all there would an excellent LSD in there which further adds to the argument that a front is better if you only want one.

Maybe not for the next issue but we are going to do the difflock test again using a 90 series (IFS) Prado.

but again, that means it's only patrol oriented... the results wil lbe vastly different for different vehicles. i don't know that much about patrols, but i've heard their hard to get flexing in the front, so of course a lockers going to help on the end that lifts wheels more often... same as with an IFS prado.

whereas it'd be a true comparison if you had something that had as good a front travel as rear travel.

bad_religion_au wrote:but again, that means it's only patrol oriented... the results wil lbe vastly different for different vehicles. i don't know that much about patrols, but i've heard their hard to get flexing in the front, so of course a lockers going to help on the end that lifts wheels more often... same as with an IFS prado.

whereas it'd be a true comparison if you had something that had as good a front travel as rear travel.

4wheelingSA magazine is just 4WDers writing up trips & tech to share with others. No different to OL or other forums except we present it in a pdf magazine format. Its not a commercial venture. We rely on 4WDers like you and me to write up he stories. If you have a 4WD with manual difflocks front and rear then Id love for you to repeat our testing, take some photos, write it up and send it to me. Thats what we're after. Go for it! Find a steep low traction hill and run at it unlocked, front locked, rear locked then both locked. Do it twice and send me the story.

AJ wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:but again, that means it's only patrol oriented... the results wil lbe vastly different for different vehicles. i don't know that much about patrols, but i've heard their hard to get flexing in the front, so of course a lockers going to help on the end that lifts wheels more often... same as with an IFS prado.

whereas it'd be a true comparison if you had something that had as good a front travel as rear travel.

4wheelingSA magazine is just 4WDers writing up trips & tech to share with others. No different to OL or other forums except we present it in a pdf magazine format. Its not a commercial venture. We rely on 4WDers like you and me to write up he stories. If you have a 4WD with manual difflocks front and rear then Id love for you to repeat our testing, take some photos, write it up and send it to me. Thats what we're after. Go for it! Find a steep low traction hill and run at it unlocked, front locked, rear locked then both locked. Do it twice and send me the story.

yep i download it every time it's released and my brother and i are looking at writing up a story about OZROCK.

sorry if it read like i was paying out your test, guess too many years of science makes me look for as many variables to test as possible. it was definately an interesting article, and top points for going out and investigating one of the longest running 4x4 debates out there.

once i get my front to flex (yep i'm guilty of that as well ) one day i'll head out to a "controlled" environment with an open diff, an auto locker, an lsd, and two welded diffs (i'm too cheap for manual lockers), and try all the possible combo's and add that to what you've already collected. should make for interesting reading if nothing else

bad_religion_au wrote:yep i download it every time it's released and my brother and i are looking at writing up a story about OZROCK.

sorry if it read like i was paying out your test, guess too many years of science makes me look for as many variables to test as possible. it was definately an interesting article, and top points for going out and investigating one of the longest running 4x4 debates out there.

once i get my front to flex (yep i'm guilty of that as well ) one day i'll head out to a "controlled" environment with an open diff, an auto locker, an lsd, and two welded diffs (i'm too cheap for manual lockers), and try all the possible combo's and add that to what you've already collected. should make for interesting reading if nothing else

I didnt take it like you were paying it out. If we can get 10 different vehicles to do the test then it will tell us a LOT about not just diff locks but also about how different vehicles put their power down.
If we were a commercial magazine we would get 10 different vehicles, fit F&R airlockers to them all and then print a conclusion that double difflocks works best.

OZROCK story sounds good. Can I have it for the next edition? I would need it by the 25th of Feb to make the Autumn edition.

AJ wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:yep i download it every time it's released and my brother and i are looking at writing up a story about OZROCK.

sorry if it read like i was paying out your test, guess too many years of science makes me look for as many variables to test as possible. it was definately an interesting article, and top points for going out and investigating one of the longest running 4x4 debates out there.

once i get my front to flex (yep i'm guilty of that as well ) one day i'll head out to a "controlled" environment with an open diff, an auto locker, an lsd, and two welded diffs (i'm too cheap for manual lockers), and try all the possible combo's and add that to what you've already collected. should make for interesting reading if nothing else

I didnt take it like you were paying it out. If we can get 10 different vehicles to do the test then it will tell us a LOT about not just diff locks but also about how different vehicles put their power down.
If we were a commercial magazine we would get 10 different vehicles, fit F&R airlockers to them all and then print a conclusion that double difflocks works best.

OZROCK story sounds good. Can I have it for the next edition? I would need it by the 25th of Feb to make the Autumn edition.

I can really really really try to get it by the 25th feb. i can't make guarentees yet. would you prefer a writeup on the last event, or like a profile type thing?

also do you have guidelines on how you want the stories submitted/ picture quality etc?

bad_religion_au wrote:I can really really really try to get it by the 25th feb. i can't make guarentees yet. would you prefer a writeup on the last event, or like a profile type thing?

Event write up or profile. You choose.

bad_religion_au wrote:also do you have guidelines on how you want the stories submitted/ picture quality etc?

Microsoft Word format or just text. Photos can be any size as I reduce and compress them to suit. Around 200kB each is OK.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:How did you test front versus rear difllock by the way?

Click here and find out:
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/4wheelingSA/ ... 021-30.pdf

Andrew - you need to fix the link...

Your difflock test is interesting - would be interesting to repeat the test using a range of vehicles though. And on other/steeper hills. I think that the steeper the hill, the more the rear locker would win-out.

I thought it'd be a single vehicle test, and the difference between front and rear flex capabilities is going to change the results on different vehicles. Whether or not it is sufficient to CHANGE your end result would be interesting.

I'd expect say in a IFS the Front locker would have a greater effect than say in a sierra which often have as good front end flex as back end flex.

SWB versus LWB differences would be interesting too.

I've heard the theory front is better before.

I'm looking at front assistance now to go with my rear factory locker.

Beastmavster wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:How did you test front versus rear difllock by the way?

Click here and find out:
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/4wheelingSA/ ... 021-30.pdf

Andrew - you need to fix the link...

Your difflock test is interesting - would be interesting to repeat the test using a range of vehicles though. And on other/steeper hills. I think that the steeper the hill, the more the rear locker would win-out.

I thought it'd be a single vehicle test, and the difference between front and rear flex capabilities is going to change the results on different vehicles. Whether or not it is sufficient to CHANGE your end result would be interesting.

I'd expect say in a IFS the Front locker would have a greater effect than say in a sierra which often have as good front end flex as back end flex.

SWB versus LWB differences would be interesting too.

I've heard the theory front is better before.

I'm looking at front assistance now to go with my rear factory locker.

Only for patrols have I commonly seen the front locker/rear LSD combo. Everyone else seems to fit a rear locker before a front. Or in toyotas with the same diffs front and rear - buy a rear locker and move the LSD to the front. Definitely interested in seeing more testing...

BUMP

Any more winch comments/stories?

Thanks guys for the feedback - both onlist and by email.

We have pulled apart the winches for inspection and photos and will do the first round of testing this weekend.

We have ended up with 4 new winches for the testing:
1 $400 ebay 9500lb
1 Terrain Tamer 9500lb
1 Ironman 9500lb
1 Warn 9.5XP

Keep the feedback coming as the testing is going to be done for 12 months to get a real world idea of durability.

Do you have any means of testing if they are actually 9500lb? I'd be betting a few of the ebay specials fall pretty short of their claimed ratings!!!!

Shame there was no T-max for the test... I would have liked to see how it compared.

ISUZUROVER wrote:Shame there was no T-max for the test... I would have liked to see how it compared.

T-Max, X9 and Magnum/Tabor are all missing in this test.
We have a Magnum for photos and internal inspection only.

I think we have enough to comment on the value of $400 vs $1000 vs $2000 winches, which was the reason for doing this in the first place.

Cossie wrote:Do you have any means of testing if they are actually 9500lb? I'd be betting a few of the ebay specials fall pretty short of their claimed ratings!!!!

Hauling a 2.5t Defender up a steep hill will tell us a lot about winch performance. 4WDmonthly did a winch capacity test a while ago and all of those tested met the makers claims. We are more interested in durability and real world performance. Thats why we are going to do this for 12 months.

Any progress on testing the winches?

Chris.

cbr wrote:Any progress on testing the winches?

Chris.

Its been a long haul but mag "should" be available to download next week.
Only a month late

Still not there ... or am I missing somthing??

Previous mags are quite good

got a 9500lb brawn

had solenoid problems earlier but they put a new "sealed" unit in it and since have had no problems. given it a real workout too!

of course a 'slowmount' will never be as quick as a 8000lb highmount esp. when freespooling under no load.

any news on the latest issue?

Its ready, just need to tidy up the contents page.
Hopefully I can send it to Terry tonight and get it uploaded in teh next few days.

I'll post a message here when its up

Sorry this one is SO late but Ive been flat out with other things plus trying to test and write up the winch story.