Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Although this intercooler isn't a 4x4 one this time it's my 1st attempt at a water to air one. The core was supplied by the customer and it's going into the battery area of an EL Falcon turbo 4 litre 6 cylinder. This is still "work in progress" as another 90 degree section needs to be welded on yet.
As you might expect space is at a premium and technically it's the most difficult I/cooler I've built to date. The 1st pic shows just how difficult as I had to segment a "doughnut" to tighten up the radius to fit within the confines I had imposed. This was all well until I realised I would be unable to weld the internal radius all the way around and so seal both the water and air sides. In the end I had to cut the doughnut in half like the tail of a lobster then weld 1/2 the tube internally and replace the cut section and weld the rest as far as I could go.
The 2nd pic is before the top was welded on and shows the water spray bar and the water outlet.
Some pics below.
Regards Andrew.

that is truly a work of art

The next pic shows how the inlet tube actually goes through the water canister, this allows the inlet charge to be cooled already before it goes through the I/cooler core itself. The water canister can also be filled with ice or an ice/water slurry for peak cooling.
The last pic shows the tubing into and out of the intercooler. Where it says "inlet from turbo" I have to weld another 90 degree section here so that it points towards the turbo.
Regards Andrew.

hey andrew
found out the hotrods and shit today on way back from Wandin

Sunday 19th of February - Thunderbirds Rod & Custom Club of Vic Inc. 13th All American Display and Swap Meet
Gembrook Sports Ground. Gembrook. Vic. (Melways 312 D8). Classics, Vintage and Veteran, Hot Rods, Customs, Pickups, S/Wagons all welcome. Aussie Falcons, Holdens Chrysler Valiants up to 1975 welcome. Must be Show Class. Details - Dennis Jones: (03) 5942 7391 or Terry Thomas: (03) 5968 4641

http://www.chevcarclubvic.org.au/events_calendar.htm

calendar has PLENTY more where that came from, so pick a few!

Is the tank going to be full of water? If so then why the spray bar? I wouldnt have thought it would make much of a difference if any with or without a spray bar. Most important thing with a Water to Air is keeping the water cool. Needs a good seperate radiator for this and the more water capacity the better.

Ruff, by "spray bar" I actually mean the water inlet tube has a series of holes so that the water is introduced evenly and will flow through the core over the whole width rather than just in one place. The canister is full of water or water/ice at all times.
It will be using a separate radiator and we are looking at another water holding tank to increase the water volume as well. This extra tank can also be filled with water/ice as well.
Regards Andrew.

with the later hiluxs not having enough room for a air to air intercooler but room for a second battery u could have a nice little business there, hell with most 4x4s having enough room for a second battery and not much else u could be on a winner

looking good

Loooove your work bench
Peter.

N*A*M wrote:that is truly a work of art

X2

That is amazingly neat work. Im assuming its TIG welded?

v840 wrote:

N*A*M wrote:that is truly a work of art

X2

That is amazingly neat work. Im assuming its TIG welded?

yup all TIG.
Thats pretty much standard for his work. Ive seen some of the IC he has done for show cars.. Awesome shit

bogged wrote: .. Awesome shit

You're not wrong.

Now why isnt that hanging in the Louve in Paris ?

What does one of those babies set you back?

I dont know much about IC but does having so many sharp right angle bends do much to the airflow pressure?

Andrew the other thing your goping to need on that is a radiator cap that can release pressure otherwise once the water heats up its going to blow a hose off. But you prob allready have this in mind.

wouldnt the second radiator have the cap on it? What about a air bleed hose out the top of the cooler?

god damb how nice do the welds look
with my tig work was that good

although im only doing alluminium tool boxes so it only need to get good peno and not resemble bird shit
granted im only a aprentice so im expected to be shit lol


looks like it would have been fun to make (im being serious) i love making special jobs not quit the usual stuff, where the boss says just make it with in this and that and you design the rest

get a kick outa it when it turns out realy good and doesnt need much modding


cheers
elliot

Would it be any advantage to fin the "Inlet tube from turbo" to give a better cooling effect. Every little bit counts. You may have thought of it already and there is sum reason it can't/wasn't done. It's probably a bit late now too. Fanbloodytastic welding boyo.

Hot Damn, those welds do look sexy, and I agree that if the front mounted radiator has a rad cap there is little need for one on the I/C tank.

I also agree that while the tank is extremely well made, pressure drop will possibly be its only downfall due to the amount of bends in it. Of course if the turbo is big enough and capable of high boost pressures I couldnt invisage that being a huge problem. Got any specs on the turbo/engine this is for?

RAY185 wrote:Hot Damn, those welds do look sexy, and I agree that if the front mounted radiator has a rad cap there is little need for one on the I/C tank.

I also agree that while the tank is extremely well made, pressure drop will possibly be its only downfall due to the amount of bends in it. Of course if the turbo is big enough and capable of high boost pressures I couldnt invisage that being a huge problem. Got any specs on the turbo/engine this is for?

First post says EL 4.0 6cyl sedan

Ok, doesn't say what turbo but I would imagine similar to one of these new xr6 jobbies.

high n mighty wrote:

RAY185 wrote:Hot Damn, those welds do look sexy, and I agree that if the front mounted radiator has a rad cap there is little need for one on the I/C tank.

I also agree that while the tank is extremely well made, pressure drop will possibly be its only downfall due to the amount of bends in it. Of course if the turbo is big enough and capable of high boost pressures I couldnt invisage that being a huge problem. Got any specs on the turbo/engine this is for?

First post says EL 4.0 6cyl sedan

Ok, doesn't say what turbo but I would imagine similar to one of these new xr6 jobbies.

Yep, I read the first post too. I understood it was a 4.0 6cyl EL, thats why I didn't ask what SORT of engine it was. What I was asking was the engine/turbo specs.

Examples:
How much boost pressure is he planning on running?
Has the engine had any work done internally to handle said boost pressure, eg..decompression plate, ported and polished heads, etc..?
Is it a XR6 turbo (like you assume) or is it a bigger ball bearing type?
Is he planning on running a programmable ECU?
etc
etc

Furry muff?

RAY185 wrote:

high n mighty wrote:

RAY185 wrote:Hot Damn, those welds do look sexy, and I agree that if the front mounted radiator has a rad cap there is little need for one on the I/C tank.

I also agree that while the tank is extremely well made, pressure drop will possibly be its only downfall due to the amount of bends in it. Of course if the turbo is big enough and capable of high boost pressures I couldnt invisage that being a huge problem. Got any specs on the turbo/engine this is for?

First post says EL 4.0 6cyl sedan
Ok, doesn't say what turbo but I would imagine similar to one of these new xr6 jobbies.

Yep, I read the first post too. I understood it was a 4.0 6cyl EL, thats why I didn't ask what SORT of engine it was. What I was asking was the engine/turbo specs.
Examples:
How much boost pressure is he planning on running?
Has the engine had any work done internally to handle said boost pressure, eg..decompression plate, ported and polished heads, etc..?
Is it a XR6 turbo (like you assume) or is it a bigger ball bearing type?
Is he planning on running a programmable ECU?
etc
etc
Furry muff?

This turbo setup is on the 4 litre EL engine, I'm only involved in the intercooler fabrication side of things. The motor has been built and is ready to go in the car, it has a standard crank but aftermarket conrods and pistons, the bottom end has been balanced. The head has just been cleaned up in the ports as they flow pretty well anyway, the turbo is a TO4b on a highmounted stainless manifold and it has an external 45mm wastegate along with a blow off valve to be located near the throttle body. It will be running a Wolf 3D programmable ECU and max boost pressure will only be about 1 Bar (approx 15psi) It's anticipated to be around 250 kWatts @ the wheels, this is quite achievable with these engines.
Regards Andrew.

Sounds good, thats a decent sized turbo to run 15psi on, I can't imagine the bends in the IC would be an issue. Keep us posted on the progress!

RAY185 wrote:Sounds good, thats a decent sized turbo to run 15psi on, I can't imagine the bends in the IC would be an issue. Keep us posted on the progress!

Thanks Ray. The bends aren't perfect but they are fabricated from a doughnut which has been segmented to tighten the radius and has been smoothed out internally so it's not as bad as it might be. Unfortunately, space constraints wouldn't allow standard doughnut or mandrel bend dimensions.
Regards Andrew.

awill4x4 wrote:
This turbo setup is on the 4 litre EL engine, I'm only involved in the intercooler fabrication side of things. The motor has been built and is ready to go in the car, it has a standard crank but aftermarket conrods and pistons, the bottom end has been balanced. The head has just been cleaned up in the ports as they flow pretty well anyway, the turbo is a TO4b on a highmounted stainless manifold and it has an external 45mm wastegate along with a blow off valve to be located near the throttle body. It will be running a Wolf 3D programmable ECU and max boost pressure will only be about 1 Bar (approx 15psi) It's anticipated to be around 250 kWatts @ the wheels, this is quite achievable with these engines.
Regards Andrew.

Nice work there
Any idea on costs if you were to make one for someone else?

I have a skyline with 2.5 litre turbo straight six that I am aiming for 200rwkw with.
I was going to buy air to air intercooler for the front like everyone else but air - water might be better.
I could use the stock intercooler location for the radiator and keep it all nice and stealthy.

What size is the unit?
Would you consider making more?

cheers

z

Dead Sexy! Wish I could weld...

Been admiring your work and watching this thread for a while now, and two things occur to me.

1. The "extension" with the inlet tube through it has a rectangular profile. If you made it more trapezoidal ( i.e \____/ in shape) would that help squeeze in sections of a standard donut, rather than performing all that surgery? Or, instead of building the tank and then welding in segments of pipe could you get a mandrel bent pipe and build the tank around it? (No, I'm not a fabricator. Yes, that's right, I have no idea. )

2. Cool water from "radiator" will be more dense than hot water leaving the intercooler. Inlet at top I understand (cool incoming water will sink, and help create current) but outlet at bottom on other side means you won't be sucking out the hottest water. Worst case, you may end up with flow diagonally down through the tank (greatest flow direct from inlet to outlet) and a pocket of hot water at the top of the core meaning a significant portion of the core isn't actually cooling. Or am I missing something?

Cheers,

Scott

Sorry - third thing.

3. Air outlet at the top. Hot air rises? Probably won't matter at high cfm?

What's the application? Strip car? Daily Driver? Tow vehicle? Curious about the duration it will spend working hard.

Cheers,

Scott