Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I know there have been heaps of posts on this subject ( I did do a search) but I'll start another one anyway.

I am just about to start changing the suspension on the Rangie.The suspension has not been touched since I bought it and is way to hard for what i do. It has Bilstein shock and I was told that this is half my problems as they are valved very hard.

It has a 2" lift at the moment but I am going to get custom springs made by Browns springs and rated 180lb front and probably 210lb rear and give a 2.5" lift. Does this sound reasonable? Anyone running softer than this?

Next question is shocks. What length should I be looking at based on everyones experiences? Can you get shocks specifically for the Rangie at this length or will I need to get Cruiser or Patrol shocks?

The Rangie is specifically an off-road toy and only gets driven on the road to get to the tracks.

Thanks for the help.

I've had great results with Les Richmond automotive springs. With a steel bar around 50kg, no winch; red front and purple rear, give a good 2" lift with excellent ride quality. My preference is for DeCarbon shocks, but bilsteins , Koni, KYB or Boge work well also.
If you have a bar and winch, and not carrying HEAPS of load, I have orange springs in the front of my RRC with the Isuzu 4BD1 and a steel TJM bar, and orange/purple in the rear. The rear sits higher than the front, but when I fill the 135litre diesel tank etc, it is perfect.

Excellent springs and good price too.

Check out www.lrautomotive.com.au and look at their spring rate comparison charts etc.


JC

Thanks Justin,
I have looked at the LRA site before. They are good springs but fairly expensive. I have always had my springs custom made by Browns Springs (who actually make the LRA springs) and they usually only cost $120/pair. It's a bit more mucking around but as long as you know your weight at each corner then you get exactly what you want. On My Discovery I run 150lb springs on the front with a 2" lift, now you could never get them off the shelf

The other people so speak to are ARB Southern about their Southern Race gear stuff.
They make nice springs in a few rates types for rovers. Only thing is that most of the springs are about 3 - 4inch lift.

Dave.

Thanks Dave. I think I have the springs pretty much sorted, it is the shocks that I really need info on.

Best for front is the 80s. Search and read up on that

Rear - ? Not sure. Im not up to that yet

Why ask the question if it's 'all sorted'???.

The key issue here is the free length of your springs.
If you put longer shocks on and the spring free length is too short then they will fall out all the time.
This can be fixed with Jubilee clips or cones but you will not gain much as there will not be much downward pressure at full shock length.

You can get longer Bilstein shocks from LRA or other people in the group will tell you about Toyota or other shocks, although LRA has a chart of free lengths etc which suggests that there is a bit of dreaming about.
BUt you should be aware that longer shocks require longer bump stops or spacers, the trailing arms need cranking, The front may/will need castor correction etc etc.
I do not know why you make such an issue of it . Green rear springs from a standard 4door give 2 inches on the front, without bull bars. they are 160 LB.

Orange LRA give 2 inches on the back of a 4 door at 180 LBS.
I have this with standard Boge shocks.
With this level of lift you do not need different shocks ,.
AND the ride on my car is superb.
The extra 1/2 inch will cause you more than 1/2inch worth of angst.
And its illegal without an engineers certificate.
Regards Philip A

1103.9TD wrote:Why ask the question if it's 'all sorted'???.

did you read it right through? or just choose to write that cause you think your funny

xxxxxxxxxxx

Ok, in order.

Thanks Dave, I will look into the 80S shocks for the front.

1103.9TD, your a rude bastard aren't you.

Thanks Philip, it's not really an issue, I was just interested in hearing what others have done. I have just finished installing the 4.6l motor and it is finally runing ok so the next project is suspension. I have no idea what spring rate is in it at the moment, all I know is when we go driving I am lifting wheels while other Rangies and keeping all 4 on the ground. The Rangie is a project car, gets driven maybe twice a month on trips and takes all my money...but I love it. The aim is to get the maximum articulation that I can get. But you are right it is all about free spring length. I have no interest in longer cones or having to retain springs, but at the moment the shocks I have are way too short and limit the articulation.

OOPS,
One thing I forgot to mention Adam, because most of the time my RR is unladen or I just can't afford to fill up the Longranger, I fitted 2" longer DeCarbon shocks on the rear to go with the LRA orange/purple springs. I haven't had a bottoming-out issue yet either.
These shocks and springs give me very good rear articulation, and if I let my tyres down a little in rocks etc, I can surprise a lot of people...Without lockers. Auto box with torquey diesel and a 3.23:1 low range.
I 'm thinking of Haultech ETC soon though.

JC

I 'm thinking of Haultech ETC soon though




So am i

Walker,
A couple of further things
I have a working Nivomat at the back and I have a 140 litre tank. and no stabilizer bars.

160 lbs at the front I find are good for articulation and do not bottom at sane speeds. I have an alloy bar and 2 batteries. I actually have LRA "green" which are about 1/2 inch shorter than the OEM green ( 92 4 door rear) as I felt I had lost too much castor with the OEMs

I am getting some articulation bottoming at the back, by the look of the bump stops with my 180 LB LRA "orange" , but it is not noticable even on A grade tracks so I reckon that is just about perfect.
The next up springs are LRA Purple at 17 " free length and 220 lbs, which sounds similar to the ones you are thinking of getting from Browns. They will give more like 3 inches on a light car without long range tank or ARB rear bar. And the ride will not be really good with a light load.

I really do not think you need longer shocks as really stiff springs problem is that the wheel being forced up will not stuff up enough into the bumpstop. When you have nice flexy springs you get more articulation.

Your bad ride is probably from a combination of heavy springs and the Bilsteins. Ride is very subjective but some people like the stiffness of Bilsteins to cut turn in roll.
Why not try the springs first, then replace the bilsteins if you still do not like the ride.
But most aftermarket shocks are valved harder than OEM shocks like Boge . You do not need stiff shocks for hard trail work. In fact IMHO they are a liability as much as stiff springs.
RegardsPhilip A

Thanks again Philip, I appreciate the input.

Since the springs are fairly cheap I might try 180lb on the rear first and see how they go. I never carry anything heavier than the spare wheel and tools in the back, even the rear seat has been pulled out. What I will do is get the springs first then test it all out with a forklift.
With the forklift I can lift one wheel and work out what the max extended shock length I can get without dropping a spring. I can always move shock mounts to cater for closed length.

If nothing else it will give me something to do.

PS. Whats a Nivomat??

Load leveller, Hydromat, thing in the middle attached to the A arm.
probably not on yours, but I reckon are a help for articulation, but some reckon are a hindrance.
They are a combination, spring, shock, and gas filled bump stop. Look up Nivomat on Google and there should be atechnical dissertation on the ZF site.

IMHO, they are great off road as they stop the back drooping on steep hills, they act as a fulcrum for the axle to pivot .

Its only if you have one of these that you can get away with 180 LB springs. If not even a stock disco has I think 180/220 lb dual rates.
Regards Philip A

So is this like a Boge strut or the same thing? I do have a Boge strut on the rear. It is still working ok. I was going to pull it off as most people say to do this but a couple of mates reckon it's a lot better with it on.

I can understand that it would be a great help on a standard suspension but I wondered if , when you lift the car 2", whether it becomes a limiting factor in the articulation???

yes it is boge strutt.

Michael.

Ahh. Thanks Philip, I did find it on the internet. It looks similar to the old Boge strut but with a small coil added as well.

well here is my 2 bobs worth... 2 door rear springs in the front and 4 door rears in the rear give a 2 inch lift with fairly soft ride and good artic the 80 series shocks are good for front but to make the front work you WILL have to either make a 4 link up (as i did ) or remove the front radias arm bolt from the passengers side... for rear shocks again an option is 80 series fronts but relocate them to the X member the load leveller rides from to the front top of the diff this will give you massive travel...( before you start knocking this you experts check out nigels hybrib...lol)
Like you I have a offroad only toy.... road reg but only ever driven to play, and I like to do things on the cheap. Personally I have a dual shock bracket I made up for the front and run a 80 series and the standard rove shock amd in the rear I run Mercedes truck shocks mounted inboard of the rails... as for the load leveller I would leave it it dosent efect flex..
If you want to seee pics of mine just message me..

Mark

Waker Said

I have no interest in longer cones or having to retain springs, but at the moment the shocks I have are way too short and limit the articulation.

I think you are doing your Rover an injustice. If you retain your coils you can pick up a heap more flex without losing control. For you and anyone else who is reading, my advice would be to get the coils you want. Retain them. Flex it up gradually until you are comfortable the coils are not stretching too far and then measure the length you want the shocks to be.

Then you have to find shocks that suit the length you want. I am confident that the Cruiser front shocks will be what you want up front. If they are a little too long, you can get original (factory) length Cruiser shocks which are a bit shorter than the after market Cruiser shocks.

For the Rear, Procomps have a couple of different lengths to choose from that suit more articulation or you can buy a pin to eye adapter and get eye to eye shocks. This way you can get nearly any brand you choose as they are more readily available in the longer lengths (GQ rears)

Sorry to go off topic Walker but I think it is worth considering some more.

Shane

No problems Shane, thanks for the imput and I will do what you say. but a couple of questions.

1. I had heard that there were hepas of choices with the pro comp shock and the prices were pretty good, why not use procomp up front as well or aren't the choices as great?

2. All very well going longer shock but then the compressed length is too long. Should you be raising the bumpstop (therefore losing articulation) or is there an easy way to change shock mountings?

For the front Walker i have used OME N73 Landcruiser shocks 615mm open and 350 closed.Rather than spacing the bump stop i have raised the shock turret 25mm.I have gained extra down travel but not lost any up travel.

For the rear i am running Pro Comp shocks 11.1" travel with my springs retained.To avoid losing up travel again rather than spacing the bump stop i have moved the shock mounts up.

Excellent, thanks, that is just the sort of info I am after. Since I am low on money at the moment I would rather get it right the first time. Like that will ever happen

The front spacers i use are 25mm thick and the spring which is 17" free length just comes loose at full droop.Was fine until i put Haultech's holey bushes in.

The rear the only problem i have now is the trailing arm bushes at the chassis end are binding up on down travel

1. I had heard that there were hepas of choices with the pro comp shock and the prices were pretty good, why not use procomp up front as well or aren't the choices as great?

Naa you can use Procomps up front as well.

JohnZ, Giantracing and myself on this site sell Procomps for $125each or maybe $120 + freight (Correct me if I am wrong)

Great, thanks, I will be in touch when I am up to that stage. I will get the springs first then work out the length I need. Unfortunately I have to replace my exhaust first as I cracked it last weekend.....but I have been wanting a 3" one anyway.

Is there a list available anywhere showing all the available procomp sizes with compressed and extetended lengths?

walker wrote:Great, thanks, I will be in touch when I am up to that stage. I will get the springs first then work out the length I need. Unfortunately I have to replace my exhaust first as I cracked it last weekend.....but I have been wanting a 3" one anyway.

Is there a list available anywhere showing all the available procomp sizes with compressed and extetended lengths?

I notice it bouncing around i think 3' is too big 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 for a v8 is heaps if it too big then you wont get the right back pressure... my 2 cents

Mick

mickrangie wrote:

walker wrote:Great, thanks, I will be in touch when I am up to that stage. I will get the springs first then work out the length I need. Unfortunately I have to replace my exhaust first as I cracked it last weekend.....but I have been wanting a 3" one anyway.

Is there a list available anywhere showing all the available procomp sizes with compressed and extetended lengths?

I notice it bouncing around i think 3' is too big 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 for a v8 is heaps if it too big then you wont get the right back pressure... my 2 cents

Mick

Agree 2.5 is adequete for 3.5 - 3.9 LT.
even if I run a 3 inch system.

but I got 5.7 lt.

Michael.

I have a 4.6l motor in it, is 3" too big for that. I only said 3" because that was what I was told i should get for the 4.6 to get the best out of it.