Outer Limits 4x4 Board

$35
not too bad i'd say

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/K-N-Air-Filter-t ... dZViewItem

$15 postage is a bit rich, but its still cheap

yeh but arnt they over $100 in store?

Stick with a decent paper filter if you're wheelin' or driving in dusty conditions. K&Ns, etc. let far too much dust through for most wheeling applications.

AJFeroza wrote:Stick with a decent paper filter if you're wheelin' or driving in dusty conditions. K&Ns, etc. let far too much dust through for most wheeling applications.

Hi all,

AJ, why do you think the K&N Filters let "far" too much dust in? They are a world-wide company who have invested millions of dollars in research and development in this field. If you cared to do some reading before making statements like that you'll find that independent labs test their products as well as their own scientific boffins.

Perhaps the greatest testament to their product quality is that over the last 35 years, they have sold over 20 million air filters, yes maybe not all 20 million or even 1/2 of these would have been for 4wd applications, but that’s still a lot of people that can't be wrong about using a K&N Filter.

Cheers izy

I'm not totally sure what type the k&n is...

But I had the oiled up type fitted to my zook, and with the snorkle picking up leaves and junk, the filter became blocked to quickly, with the crud sticking all over it.

I have returned to normal zook filter, didn't notice any power losses, but the crud mostly falls to bottom of airbox now, and it is very easy to blow the dust out of filter regularly.

Just my experiences.
christover

christover1 wrote:I'm not totally sure what type the k&n is...

But I had the oiled up type fitted to my zook, and with the snorkle picking up leaves and junk, the filter became blocked to quickly, with the crud sticking all over it.

I have returned to normal zook filter, didn't notice any power losses, but the crud mostly falls to bottom of airbox now, and it is very easy to blow the dust out of filter regularly.

Just my experiences.
christover

Hey Christover,

All K&N Filters I have dealt with are the cotton type that you oil up, I have a pod style filter in my Mazda, to get around the problem of having crud sticking to it all the time you can buy what’s called a FILTERCHARGER, which is like a sock made of fine mesh which makes stuff not stick to the actual filter but drop to the bottom.

Cheers izy

izy wrote: All K&N Filters I have dealt with are the cotton type that you oil up, I have a pod style filter in my Mazda, to get around the problem of having crud sticking to it all the time you can buy what’s called a FILTERCHARGER, which is like a sock made of fine mesh which makes stuff not stick to the actual filter but drop to the bottom.

Cheers izy

Thats an easy solution, problem solved.
Mine was a freebie, from a mate who changed his project.
Don't think I could afford one anyway.
But for anyone travelling inland Aus, decent dust filtering is cheaper than killing an engine.
Have seen engines eaten away by outback dust.

christover

christover1 wrote:I'm not totally sure what type the k&n is...

But I had the oiled up type fitted to my zook, and with the snorkle picking up leaves and junk, the filter became blocked to quickly, with the crud sticking all over it.

I have returned to normal zook filter, didn't notice any power losses, but the crud mostly falls to bottom of airbox now, and it is very easy to blow the dust out of filter regularly.

Just my experiences.
christover

Hey be careful when doing this, if youre using compressed air you can be blowing tiny chunks of paper out of the filter leaving tiny holes for more and more larger particles of dust to get through.

PJ.zook wrote: Hey be careful when doing this, if youre using compressed air you can be blowing tiny chunks of paper out of the filter leaving tiny holes for more and more larger particles of dust to get through.

Good point, I don't usualy, I normaly just give it a shake.

christover

izy wrote:

AJFeroza wrote:Stick with a decent paper filter if you're wheelin' or driving in dusty conditions. K&Ns, etc. let far too much dust through for most wheeling applications.

Hi all,

AJ, why do you think the K&N Filters let "far" too much dust in? They are a world-wide company who have invested millions of dollars in research and development in this field. If you cared to do some reading before making statements like that you'll find that independent labs test their products as well as their own scientific boffins.

Perhaps the greatest testament to their product quality is that over the last 35 years, they have sold over 20 million air filters, yes maybe not all 20 million or even 1/2 of these would have been for 4wd applications, but that’s still a lot of people that can't be wrong about using a K&N Filter.

Cheers izy

They may have invested millions of dollars and they are a good filter for letting a lot of air through but IMO they dont trap enough fine dirt for 4WD!! applications and as christover said they block up with leaves making them useless anyway. Maybe you should stick with your road cars and do some reading about 4wd's before you get up people because they actually go offroad to get dust in their air filter. And all those people that "cant be wrong" probably use them on road where they should be and where they are good! Everything has its place. Of course feel free to use them in very dusty conditions if you dont value your engine.

dont they say something on the box about offroad use????

i know i have read it somewhere that its not good for offroad, because its excessively (is that a word?) dusty for the filter to handle...

izy wrote:

AJFeroza wrote:Stick with a decent paper filter if you're wheelin' or driving in dusty conditions. K&Ns, etc. let far too much dust through for most wheeling applications.

Hi all,

AJ, why do you think the K&N Filters let "far" too much dust in? They are a world-wide company who have invested millions of dollars in research and development in this field. If you cared to do some reading before making statements like that you'll find that independent labs test their products as well as their own scientific boffins.

Perhaps the greatest testament to their product quality is that over the last 35 years, they have sold over 20 million air filters, yes maybe not all 20 million or even 1/2 of these would have been for 4wd applications, but that’s still a lot of people that can't be wrong about using a K&N Filter.

Cheers izy

Dude before you get off and galloping on your high horse take a look at this thread some very good and informiative tech in here in relation to oiled cotton gauze filters V paper V oiled foam etc

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... air+filter

love_mud wrote:

izy wrote:

AJFeroza wrote:Stick with a decent paper filter if you're wheelin' or driving in dusty conditions. K&Ns, etc. let far too much dust through for most wheeling applications.

Hi all,

AJ, why do you think the K&N Filters let "far" too much dust in? They are a world-wide company who have invested millions of dollars in research and development in this field. If you cared to do some reading before making statements like that you'll find that independent labs test their products as well as their own scientific boffins.

Perhaps the greatest testament to their product quality is that over the last 35 years, they have sold over 20 million air filters, yes maybe not all 20 million or even 1/2 of these would have been for 4wd applications, but that’s still a lot of people that can't be wrong about using a K&N Filter.

Cheers izy

Dude before you get off and galloping on your high horse take a look at this thread some very good and informiative tech in here in relation to oiled cotton gauze filters V paper V oiled foam etc

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... air+filter

Naaayyyy horsey....

That thread just has a heap of people moaning about not being able to oil there filter correctly and has hence caused engine damage. I am yet to find some real research/evidence as to this "they don't like dust" thing people ramble on about. One of the posts even talks about motorcycles which really couldn't be a more positive case for oil type filters.

Cheers izy

what about oiled foam filters??

gee i have never seen a buch of ppl get so worked up over an air filter


personally i have one & they are great, you should be pulling any filter out regularly & cleaning it so there shouldnt be leaves sticking to it

i've got a K&N in my jimny, it's been there for a year now and i haven't ever had to clean it yet

i personally, i wouldn't use any thing else.


mitch

mooman wrote:i've got a K&N in my jimny, it's been there for a year now and i haven't ever had to clean it yet

i personally, i wouldn't use any thing else.


mitch

Ha-ha so you’re telling me your engine hasn't exploded yet? WOW that is incredible!

gravey wrote: gee i have never seen a bunch of ppl get so worked up over an air filter

It doesn't matter what "side" your on. Air filtration is an extremely important issue. I have seen many engines killed by poor filtration, mostly by outback dust .
This is why people get "worked up "
All opinions are important, too, as this is how we learn from each other.
Through friendly, tho often emtional and fun, discussion, rather than just agreeing with each other.
This is better than a flaming type forum, where the only point is to insult, or "win" an argument for fun.

(hope this isn't offensive, it's not meant to be)
christover

gravey wrote:gee i have never seen a buch of ppl get so worked up over an air filter


personally i have one & they are great, you should be pulling any filter out regularly & cleaning it so there shouldnt be leaves sticking to it

Actually .. no you should not be pulling it regularly, you should only be pulling it if there is a loss in fuel economy and or performance.

If you are going to be in dusty conditions it would be best to have a pre filter. Everyone should be aware of their 4wding conditions before they leave. At the end of the day any air filter is going to allow small amounts of dust in no matter what the brand is, its just a matter of deciding is a small increase in power worth the risk or money.... just my 2 cents in.

Eff

Eff wrote:If you are going to be in dusty conditions it would be best to have a pre filter.
Eff

I totaly agree..
For my outback trips in my Moke, I used a Donaldson pre cleaner on the end of my snorkle, the type that looked like a fish bowl.
Air filter stayed cleaner and healthier for much longer.
A breeze to empty, too.

My zook will get 1 one day

christover

izy wrote:

love_mud wrote:

izy wrote:

AJFeroza wrote:Stick with a decent paper filter if you're wheelin' or driving in dusty conditions. K&Ns, etc. let far too much dust through for most wheeling applications.

Hi all,

AJ, why do you think the K&N Filters let "far" too much dust in? They are a world-wide company who have invested millions of dollars in research and development in this field. If you cared to do some reading before making statements like that you'll find that independent labs test their products as well as their own scientific boffins.

Perhaps the greatest testament to their product quality is that over the last 35 years, they have sold over 20 million air filters, yes maybe not all 20 million or even 1/2 of these would have been for 4wd applications, but that’s still a lot of people that can't be wrong about using a K&N Filter.

Cheers izy

Dude before you get off and galloping on your high horse take a look at this thread some very good and informiative tech in here in relation to oiled cotton gauze filters V paper V oiled foam etc

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... air+filter

Naaayyyy horsey....

That thread just has a heap of people moaning about not being able to oil there filter correctly and has hence caused engine damage. I am yet to find some real research/evidence as to this "they don't like dust" thing people ramble on about. One of the posts even talks about motorcycles which really couldn't be a more positive case for oil type filters.

Cheers izy

Izy did you actually bother to read the thread ?? or just the bits that suited you ?

I sell a lot of K&N air cleaner kits for Harley Davidsons and I have customers who ride all over australia with them and have no issue's whatsoever. They are also exposed in most cases with only a small cover to block a bit of rain and normal road dust and perform really well. We dont see any problems with the engines when using the product otherwise we simply wouldnt stock the product.

Well i have tryed a standard paper filter then a Unifilter and now a k&n airfilter in my Jimny and i can tell u its the best filter i have ever put in.Unifilters don't even have a seal around the the ends of the filter.There is quite abit of a gap around the edges of the filter and the airbox and water used to get in as there as there was no rubber seal and the tightness of the top and bottom box of the aircleaner was not great enought causing it 2 suck in water.Ive never has the problem with the K&N Filter.I'll keep using the K&N ...They were designed for the Paris to Dakar rally so they must be allright and tell me there isn't any fine dust there.

salli wrote:Well i have tryed a standard paper filter then a Unifilter and now a k&n airfilter in my Jimny and i can tell u its the best filter i have ever put in.Unifilters don't even have a seal around the the ends of the filter.There is quite abit of a gap around the edges of the filter and the airbox and water used to get in as there as there was no rubber seal and the tightness of the top and bottom box of the aircleaner was not great enought causing it 2 suck in water.Ive never has the problem with the K&N Filter.I'll keep using the K&N ...They were designed for the Paris to Dakar rally so they must be all right and tell me there isn't any fine dust there.

And the care factor about long term durability on those motors is pretty low ... they need to last several thousand Kms and their through .. same reason F1 motors used to only run tiny thin little piston rings etc ... to make max power for a short period of time .. long term durabiltiy was a very low concern...

AFIK most mining equipment still uses paper style filters and those motor's last 10's of 1000's of hours use in some very horrendous conditions ...

Yeh well i would rather loose some engine life for more power ...i can buy a 2nd hand motor for $950 anyway and in the Jimny i need every kw i can get.Look why do some people run mineral oil's when they could buy expensive Full synthetic oils which would extend engine life as well? You get what you pay for.Do you run synthetic oils in your engine and drive train? If not why .. You know its better than mineral products. If your so worried about airfilters ,why arn't u so fussy about Synthetic oils?

salli wrote:Yeh well i would rather loose some engine life for more power ...i can buy a 2nd hand motor for $950 anyway and in the Jimny i need every kw i can get.Look why do some people run mineral oil's when they could buy expensive Full synthetic oils which would extend engine life as well? You get what you pay for.Do you run synthetic oils in your engine and drive train? If not why .. You know its better than mineral products. If your so worried about airfilters ,why arn't u so fussy about Synthetic oils?

Who said I dont ?
I use synth in the driveline, but I use a semi-synth in the engine.. as the full synth got eaten rather quickly in the patrol...
In the Zuk I just used to change the engine oil very regularly ... I only ever topped up the sand in the front diff .... and the rear I added a new banaana peel very month or two.. gearbox and t/case were semi synth as well and check and changed on a regular basis due to possible water contamination.

Thats not the point .. the point is that K&N are touted by those that dont know squat about quality filters as being some miricle filter .. and get very defensive of their precious red bit of oiled cotton .. there are better far better options