Outer Limits 4x4 Board

is there a proper tool, like some sort of large drill bit, to notch round tube?

i have been using a grinder, but surley there is something better. sick of gaps when joining tube together.

asked at a fuel tool shops, but they couldnt help.

Speedwerx make a holesaw type tube notcher
Fairly expensive if you only want to a few joins
Tube mitre is a progam you can get What you do is put in tube / pipe sizes (diametres) both base and mitred and the angle you want the tubes to meet at and print out a paper template. You then use this to mark and cut your tube, couple of angled cuts and a dress up with the grinder and your done
Would not let me attach it pm your email and I will send it

speedwerx is shit. i do not care who says what about them, i have tried time and time again. biggest waste of money. every time i have used it i have had to comprimise the fish mouth to use except for the centre on my x on the roll cage. steer clear you have been warned!

i use a plasma now, but a angle grinder and a die grinder works a treat.

cheers bru

when my Father and i started nocking up sliders and bars for mates, we thought about notchers and stuff,

in the end, we built a jig out of a couple of bits of angle, and used a 51mm hole saw (as we use 40NB tube) this gets all out straight joins done, if we need angles we just use the grinder,

I just bought a 50mm holesaw and use that .Works a treat for 90 deg joins.Have also used the tube mitre program and made up a few stensils.
Also used angle grinder and have tried the oxy.
When i can afford it i will get a plasma for sure.

holesaw is the go. ya eat through them pretty quickly though. lucky to get 10 notches outta the cheap ones. but they're like $6 each, so doesn't matter that much

we dont use a notcher, just tack the pipe to a vice clamped to the drill and ya good to go

with the steeper angles, the tube bottoms out inside the holesaw, so you need a grinder handy to take some cuts outta the notch so ya can go all the way through

bru21 wrote:speedwerx is shit. i do not care who says what about them, i have tried time and time again. biggest waste of money. every time i have used it i have had to comprimise the fish mouth to use except for the centre on my x on the roll cage. steer clear you have been warned!

i use a plasma now, but a angle grinder and a die grinder works a treat.

cheers bru

You must be doing something wrong here. We have had our speedwerx for a few years now and it would have done at least a thousand notches (15 tube buggies plus whatever else). If you set it up right you dont have to grind all. I would guess that on over 99% of our notches we never use a grinder. On the moon buggies there is only one notch that we have to grind cause the angle is too sharp. We even use the notcher free hand and just clamp it straight to a tube on the frame (not mounted to the bench)

To notch a tube including setting the angle would take less than 20 seconds and you get an absolutely perfect notch. Couldnt imagine doing it any other way.

Sam

Strange Rover wrote: You must be doing something wrong here. We have had our speedwerx for a few years now and it would have done at least a thousand notches (15 tube buggies plus whatever else). If you set it up right you dont have to grind all. I would guess that on over 99% of our notches we never use a grinder. On the moon buggies there is only one notch that we have to grind cause the angle is too sharp. We even use the notcher free hand and just clamp it straight to a tube on the frame (not mounted to the bench)
To notch a tube including setting the angle would take less than 20 seconds and you get an absolutely perfect notch. Couldnt imagine doing it any other way.
Sam

Sam, when you want to get really serious in tube notching here's what we use every day, a big @rsed bridgeport mill with RMR (rapid metal removal) cutters. We use a protractor to set the angle and tighten the vice and cut, you can't beat these in a production enviroment. Another good thing about the setup is if you only need to take off another fraction of a millimeter just put it back in the vice and cut again, you can't do that with the holesaw notchers.
Cutters are a bit exxy though
Regards Andrew.

awill4x4 wrote: Sam, when you want to get really serious in tube notching here's what we use every day, a big @rsed bridgeport mill with RMR (rapid metal removal) cutters. We use a protractor to set the angle and tighten the vice and cut, you can't beat these in a production enviroment. Another good thing about the setup is if you only need to take off another fraction of a millimeter just put it back in the vice and cut again, you can't do that with the holesaw notchers.
Cutters are a bit exxy though
Regards Andrew.

Thats nice - but you would be supprised how well the speedwerx notcher works. The way we build our buggies we have to notch tubes that are already in the fame (just easier to build them this way) so the mill isnt going to get to those. Also the speedwerx can renotch within millimetres, it doesent use a centre drill. Is has a linear bearing much like your mill - just no powerfeed.

Sam

Probably the only downside to the speedwerx is that it doesent like notching close to a bend cause the pipe vice need a straight piece to run through to clamp onto.

And also its difficult to notch something off the centre line of the tube again because the vice always centres the tube. For example if you wanted to notch some 25NB to join to some 32NB and have it all flat on the outside - it wont do this. It will make the centrelines line up not - the outsides.

Sam

I am getting the TN 100 tube notcher from JD squared through Peter Antunac as well as the model 4 bender. This seems to be the best set-up for tube work as this is widely used throughout the world.
I have got the bend tech programme that gives you the necessary information in a 3 axis format with cooridinates, angles & cutting lengths for notching. Absolutely brilliant.


brooksy

brooksy wrote:I am getting the TN 100 tube notcher from JD squared through Peter Antunac as well as the model 4 bender. This seems to be the best set-up for tube work as this is widely used throughout the world.
I have got the bend tech programme that gives you the necessary information in a 3 axis format with cooridinates, angles & cutting lengths for notching. Absolutely brilliant.


brooksy

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

how easy is Bendtech to use?

You could try the pipemaster...

http://vansantent.com/pipemaster.htm

not that expensive and looks like it would work pretty good, youll still need the grinder but at least it will be accurate. Ill be getting some of these when i start bending tube.

roc70y wrote:

brooksy wrote:I am getting the TN 100 tube notcher from JD squared through Peter Antunac as well as the model 4 bender. This seems to be the best set-up for tube work as this is widely used throughout the world.
I have got the bend tech programme that gives you the necessary information in a 3 axis format with cooridinates, angles & cutting lengths for notching. Absolutely brilliant.


brooksy

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

how easy is Bendtech to use?

You can get the programme now via the internet instead of waiting for the disc to arrive from the US. They're is 4 different programs & the cost is in $US. EZ- $59, EZ-3D - $149, SE- $399, PRO- $275.
The company that designed the program is www.2020ssi.com or go to this site www.bend-tech.com as you can order through their also as it is run by the company.

I was thinking of ordering the pipemaster through trick tools also. They look a great little tool.


brooksy

thanks for all the info guys, i might give the speedwex a try

An easy way around making notches is buying a length of plastic pipe that is the same dimensions as the tube you are going to notch. Take time to cut the pipe to the correct angle and then use it as a template to slide over the tube. You start building up common angles that you can reuse.
Cheap and easy.
By the way how much is the JD2 bender, dies and notcher costing you

Thats what i want to know, final $$ on the bender and die?

awill4x4 wrote:

Strange Rover wrote:

Isnt it a lot stronger if you actually cut into the " other pipe" and feed the ( notched pipe) into it rather than notching it. That way your not totally relying on welds to hold a cage together. Its my belief that sprintcar cages have to built using this method. I hope this makes sense to you as i cant really think of a better way to describe it

Cheers

pongo wrote: Isnt it a lot stronger if you actually cut into the " other pipe" and feed the ( notched pipe) into it rather than notching it. That way your not totally relying on welds to hold a cage together. Its my belief that sprintcar cages have to built using this method. I hope this makes sense to you as i cant really think of a better way to describe it
Cheers

Considering we build and repair sprintcar chassis' as a full time job, I think we're doing it the right way
Regards Andrew.

I hope i havent offended you. I saw you avatar and figured you knew sprintcars. I guess you cleared that up for me.

Do you think the way i suggested would make it any stronger or just a waste of time/ hassle?

thanx

jeep97tj wrote:Thats what i want to know, final $$ on the bender and die?

I am getting my model 4 JD2 bender & dies threw Peter Antunac (OPW) & considering the local made bender from a Melbourne company wants $11,500 for just the bender- NO DIES so when Pete said approx. $4,500 for the JD2 (elect/hydraulic which is what he uses) I was pleasently surprised. Dies range from $280-$600 depending what you want.
You can also get the bender from ABT4x4.


brooksy

pongo wrote:

awill4x4 wrote:

Strange Rover wrote:

Isnt it a lot stronger if you actually cut into the " other pipe" and feed the ( notched pipe) into it rather than notching it. That way your not totally relying on welds to hold a cage together. Its my belief that sprintcar cages have to built using this method. I hope this makes sense to you as i cant really think of a better way to describe it

Cheers

Maybe the actual joint would be strong if you tried to pull both pieces apart latterally but that's not the idea of a cage or frame. The pipe you have "cut into" would no doubt have it's strength comprimised as the tubular shape is where the strength lies. A side impact would see the tube fold open or bend a lot easier if the tube was "cut into" than if you done it the "correct" way as you'd only have half of the tube left and your strength would be in your weld only, not the tube and the weld.

how many notchs can be done on a hole saw before resharping and do you use it on 4140

Strange Rover wrote:

bru21 wrote:speedwerx is shit. i do not care who says what about them, i have tried time and time again. biggest waste of money. every time i have used it i have had to comprimise the fish mouth to use except for the centre on my x on the roll cage. steer clear you have been warned!

i use a plasma now, but a angle grinder and a die grinder works a treat.

cheers bru

You must be doing something wrong here. We have had our speedwerx for a few years now and it would have done at least a thousand notches (15 tube buggies plus whatever else). If you set it up right you dont have to grind all. I would guess that on over 99% of our notches we never use a grinder. On the moon buggies there is only one notch that we have to grind cause the angle is too sharp. We even use the notcher free hand and just clamp it straight to a tube on the frame (not mounted to the bench)

To notch a tube including setting the angle would take less than 20 seconds and you get an absolutely perfect notch. Couldnt imagine doing it any other way.

Sam

are we talking about the same cutter!! I can only assume that you allow excess tube in your bends and clam to the discarded tube, or use a defferent radius bend to mine or smaller diameter tube - i use 50mm mainly. every join on my cage is halfway through a bend and cannot be clamped by the notcher. i guess buggies have mainy straight notches without bends. also unless you cut away the centre line of the tube the saw will not get all the way through even on straight notches, and often jams the cutter when passing through the centre.

please post pics i must be missing something major, have a different notcher, or something.

i am on my 3rd cutter too. i use a reduction drill so it is not too fast and apply water directly to the cut during cutting to save the blades - can't see that i would have done any more than 50 notches with it and at $25 a blade it is a dear method. i have often thought that the milling cutter would be better even in a drill.

with the plasma i just hold the tube to be notched close mark the notch centreline on both sides and a basic shape, 30 sec later i am cleaning out the centre with the die grinder and its 100% - also the edges are fulll thickness and are better to weld as well as being stronger than the paper thin notched ones! the advantage is also where mirrored tubes and hence notches are i just mark by placing the notched tube back to back both ways, cut and its a snug fit, the speedwerx needs the angle changed!

cheers bru

pongo wrote:I hope i havent offended you. I saw you avatar and figured you knew sprintcars. I guess you cleared that up for me.
Do you think the way i suggested would make it any stronger or just a waste of time/ hassle?
thanx

I'm not offended at all Pongo, hence the "winking smiley "
Cutting a hole in a tube to insert another tube would actually weaken the joint drastically and on tubes where both are the same diameter it's simply not feasible anyway.
Regards Andrew.

ahh didnt see the

And now it all makes sense to me now. I love being proved wrong sometimes

Thanx again guys

bru21 wrote: are we talking about the same cutter!! I can only assume that you allow excess tube in your bends and clam to the discarded tube, or use a defferent radius bend to mine or smaller diameter tube - i use 50mm mainly. every join on my cage is halfway through a bend and cannot be clamped by the notcher. i guess buggies have mainy straight notches without bends. also unless you cut away the centre line of the tube the saw will not get all the way through even on straight notches, and often jams the cutter when passing through the centre.

please post pics i must be missing something major, have a different notcher, or something.

i am on my 3rd cutter too. i use a reduction drill so it is not too fast and apply water directly to the cut during cutting to save the blades - can't see that i would have done any more than 50 notches with it and at $25 a blade it is a dear method. i have often thought that the milling cutter would be better even in a drill.
cheers bru

Mine is an eariler version of this one (only thing different is the clamp)

http://www.speedwerx.com.au/tubenotcher.html

And yes we make sure we have a straight piece of pipe going through the vice - we basically design the tube work this way.

Some hole saws are better than others. We always use a cutting compound (trefolux (sp?)).

Also have a belt sander right beside the notcher and we sand the end of the pipe after we notch to make the edges full thickness (its only the tips of the notch where the pipe ends up this) This process takes less time to do that wiping the cutting fluid from the end of the pipe.

If you had to notch most of your tubes midway through a bent I could see that this notcher isnt going to work well.

Sam

DAWSO 4x4 wrote:how many notchs can be done on a hole saw before resharping and do you use it on 4140

On mild steel, using cutting compound, with a slow speed drill (around 600rpm) I would guess over 100 notches. I think we had one hole saw last building a couple of buggies.

You can stuff the hole saw in one go if you dont know what you are doing though - you can chip teeth or bend the saw if the piece you are notching jams the saw.

Sam

Has anyone tried this one before???

It is an actual notcher, not a hole cuuter.

http://www.steeraust.com.au/steer/notcher.htm

Mytqik wrote:Has anyone tried this one before???

It is an actual notcher, not a hole cuuter.

http://www.steeraust.com.au/steer/notcher.htm

only 2 probs i see with that, only does up to 2.9mm wall, and can it do angle notches? or only straight?