Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Sorry to start again about swopping axles, i'v been reading a lot about this toppic but i cant find a answer anywhere.

I have a 110 from '86 with a 200TDI build in, and for offraod i drive on 36"silverstone's. Lately i'v broke 3 front diff's, 1 front shaft and 1 rear shaft (salisbury). I'v had it !

So i'v been reading all i can find about it.

I'v found that Maggot had nissan axles onder his Range but changed it to toy because of de centerd diff at the rear. It causis fibrations.

There are some that used the diff's of a toy in there rover house, i dont think this is an option for me. I would have to import all the shafts ec.

My question is er anyone who still drives with nissan axles and whith type. I know de GU front axle (233) can be bold right under, but de rear has the problem from the centerd diff. Is it possible to use a MK or MQ rear axle (they are with the diff on the RH side), and does it have diskbrakes. And does it have LSD?

welding and grinding is no problem, budget is


Already thanks for your opinions

Jorrit

I don't believe you can get disc brake MQ/MK rears, only drums. They are also a fair bit narrower than GQ and heaps narrower than GU.

It depends on the driving you are doing. You could go GQ/GU front and landcruiser rear, even one from a 75/78 LC would work.

doesn't Bowy solve that problem yet?

Jorrit, IMO the best option for 110 owners is to upgrade the rear with Dana 60 components and fit a toy diff centre to the front housing.

ISUZUROVER wrote:Jorrit, IMO the best option for 110 owners is to upgrade the rear with Dana 60 components and fit a toy diff centre to the front housing.

Or upgrade the rear with Dana stuff, including 4.1's, and bolt in a GQ front.

Maggot4x4 wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:Jorrit, IMO the best option for 110 owners is to upgrade the rear with Dana 60 components and fit a toy diff centre to the front housing.

Or upgrade the rear with Dana stuff, including 4.1's, and bolt in a GQ front.

That would be a good option too. The only problem is you have 2 different stud patterns then.

If you go the toy/D60 route you have the choice of 4.1:1 4.3:1, 4.5:1/4.56:1, 4.88:1. If you put a nissan axle in the front you have 4.1, 4.3? and which other options???

Maggot4x4 wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:Jorrit, IMO the best option for 110 owners is to upgrade the rear with Dana 60 components and fit a toy diff centre to the front housing.

Or upgrade the rear with Dana stuff, including 4.1's, and bolt in a GQ front.

Don't bother with Nissan stuff. Just do the toy conversion and use JacMac axels.

You can upgrade your axels in the salisbury to JacMac HD 24 spline or MaxiDrive 24 spline.


Micka

ISUZUROVER wrote:

Maggot4x4 wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:Jorrit, IMO the best option for 110 owners is to upgrade the rear with Dana 60 components and fit a toy diff centre to the front housing.

Or upgrade the rear with Dana stuff, including 4.1's, and bolt in a GQ front.

That would be a good option too. The only problem is you have 2 different stud patterns then.

If you go the toy/D60 route you have the choice of 4.1:1 4.3:1, 4.5:1/4.56:1, 4.88:1. If you put a nissan axle in the front you have 4.1, 4.3? and which other options???

The other ratio is 4.625. The sals is narower than the GQ, you could make up a 5 to 6 stud adapter to make it the right width.

Micka, he wants stuff he can source locally, he dosen't want to import stuff.

Maggot4x4 wrote:
He wants stuff he can source locally, he dosen't want to import stuff.

Missed that point. In that case I agree with you. Complete 4.1:1 Nissan front axle, D60 4.1:1 ring and pinion in the rear and some cheap 30-spline 1.3" D60 axle shafts. and some sort of adaptor in the rear to give the sals the same track and stud pattern as the nissan front.

I would have thought that nissan axles would be $$$ in Europe, since they are so rare. And how will this get through a TÜV???

Have seen aftermarket 4.88s for Nissan aswell.

G&J Gears?

ISUZUROVER wrote:

Maggot4x4 wrote:
He wants stuff he can source locally, he dosen't want to import stuff.

Missed that point. In that case I agree with you. Complete 4.1:1 Nissan front axle, D60 4.1:1 ring and pinion in the rear and some cheap 30-spline 1.3" D60 axle shafts. and some sort of adaptor in the rear to give the sals the same track and stud pattern as the nissan front.

I would have thought that nissan axles would be $$$ in Europe, since they are so rare. And how will this get through a TÜV???

I didn't read that part either

I agree with Ben and Maggot.

Or learn how to drive and stop breaking shafts

Thanks for the reactions.

The problem wit just using the toy diff and the rover axle is that the Jacmac stuff is not for sell in the Netherland, so wil have to order it, en it wil be much more expensive than changing axles.

The Nissan front and the Toy (i think it will be a 80 than), was something i though of. But i dont no de disadvantage af that.

I thought that de dana's hat the diff's in the centre or am i wrong?
I dont know if the dana's are easy to get in the Netherlands. I havend looked for them jet.

Is it possible the the problem with the centerd diff wil give less throuble with a 110 because it's 10" longer?

Thanks,

Jorrit

Or learn how to drive and stop breaking shafts [/quote]

I'm trying but it feels like they're from paper or something

The 200TDI is an original disco blok with 111bhp. And i like to see meself as an easy driver slow en easy on the trottel


Jorrit

Jorrit - the Salisbury is exactly the same as the Dana 60, except for a few minor points. So if you can get hold of Dana 60 parts in the netherlands, that may be a cheap way to upgrade. Most Dana 60 equipped vehicles had centred diffs, but you can get axles cut and resplined, or get a huge range of cheap aftermarket Dana 60 parts from the US, including custom axles. It might be cheaper to do this than track down a BIG nissan diff (H260). The smaller nissan diffs would be weaker than your salisbury.

Was it an aftermarket (non-genuine) salisbury axle you broke? I broke one in my 2.25D powered 109, but the Maxi-Drive axles I replaced them with are still perfect.

Having a longer wheelbase should mean the sideways angle of the prop is reduced, but whether that makes a difference to vibration in practice is another matter.

ISUZUROVER wrote:Jorrit - the Salisbury is exactly the same as the Dana 60, except for a few minor points. So if you can get hold of Dana 60 parts in the netherlands, that may be a cheap way to upgrade. Most Dana 60 equipped vehicles had centred diffs, but you can get axles cut and resplined, or get a huge range of cheap aftermarket Dana 60 parts from the US, including custom axles. It might be cheaper to do this than track down a BIG nissan diff (H260). The smaller nissan diffs would be weaker than your salisbury.

What makes it an upgrade then? Will Dana 60 R&P fit the Salisbury?

TLCOR wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:Jorrit - the Salisbury is exactly the same as the Dana 60, except for a few minor points. So if you can get hold of Dana 60 parts in the netherlands, that may be a cheap way to upgrade. Most Dana 60 equipped vehicles had centred diffs, but you can get axles cut and resplined, or get a huge range of cheap aftermarket Dana 60 parts from the US, including custom axles. It might be cheaper to do this than track down a BIG nissan diff (H260). The smaller nissan diffs would be weaker than your salisbury.

What makes it an upgrade then? Will Dana 60 R&P fit the Salisbury?

What makes it an upgrade is that almost all salisburies had 1.24" 24 spline axles, while Dana 60's had 1.31" 30 spline or 1.5" 35 spline. The 1.31" axles can be fitted to a salisbury with some slight stub axle (spindle) boring, the 1.5" with new stub axles from macnamara (or elsewhere) and new bearings (available from any bearing shop). As a guide the largest diameter toyota axle commonly used is 1.3" as are all nissan axles except the 1.47" diameter Semi-floating rear axles for the H260 (someone correct me if I am wrong).

The diff centre/ CW&P of the salisbury is just as strong as a Dana 60, and D60 ring and pinions can be used - you just need to drill out the Sals carrier ring-gear holes from 12mm to 0.5", and use a D60 pinion flange. There are a huge amount of aftermarket parts for the D60, and most of these will (or can be made to) fit a salisbury.

nissan front & toyota (yes 80series rear)
Same stud pattern, go 4.1s run your 36s and be happy

if you fit GQ front get sum spare CVs or order sum heat treated units from sumwhere
if you fit GU front then

ISUZUROVER wrote:

TLCOR wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:Jorrit - the Salisbury is exactly the same as the Dana 60, except for a few minor points. So if you can get hold of Dana 60 parts in the netherlands, that may be a cheap way to upgrade. Most Dana 60 equipped vehicles had centred diffs, but you can get axles cut and resplined, or get a huge range of cheap aftermarket Dana 60 parts from the US, including custom axles. It might be cheaper to do this than track down a BIG nissan diff (H260). The smaller nissan diffs would be weaker than your salisbury.

What makes it an upgrade then? Will Dana 60 R&P fit the Salisbury?

What makes it an upgrade is that almost all salisburies had 1.24" 24 spline axles, while Dana 60's had 1.31" 30 spline or 1.5" 35 spline. The 1.31" axles can be fitted to a salisbury with some slight stub axle (spindle) boring, the 1.5" with new stub axles from macnamara (or elsewhere) and new bearings (available from any bearing shop). As a guide the largest diameter toyota axle commonly used is 1.3" as are all nissan axles except the 1.47" diameter Semi-floating rear axles for the H260 (someone correct me if I am wrong).

The diff centre/ CW&P of the salisbury is just as strong as a Dana 60, and D60 ring and pinions can be used - you just need to drill out the Sals carrier ring-gear holes from 12mm to 0.5", and use a D60 pinion flange. There are a huge amount of aftermarket parts for the D60, and most of these will (or can be made to) fit a salisbury.

Aha, thanks. So everything matches between them two besides the axleshafts? Mine's a little offset, aren't 60's centered?

But, stub-axles?? Aren't we talking about rear axles, what am I missing?

And AFAIK, the H260's have 1.51" axles.

Not all D60's are centred. But there are about 500 companies in the US that will make custom D60 axles to any length you want.

Stub axles (also called spindles) are the parts that the hub and hub bearings sit on (and the axle goes through).

Yes, you are right, H260s have 1.51" 37 spline axles (FC101 Salsburies are 1.47"). But they are semi floating - which is nowhere near as strong as a fully floating axle of the same size.

ISUZUROVER wrote:Not all D60's are centred. But there are about 500 companies in the US that will make custom D60 axles to any length you want.

Stub axles (also called spindles) are the parts that the hub and hub bearings sit on (and the axle goes through).

Yes, you are right, H260s have 1.51" 37 spline axles (FC101 Salsburies are 1.47"). But they are semi floating - which is nowhere near as strong as a fully floating axle of the same size.

The new Nissan rears are full floating, at least over here they are.

Thanks for all the rpl's. At the moment i doubt between

Nissan GQ at the front and a Toy 80 at the back

or

Front and rear 80's

Question is the 80 front as strong as de GQ? And is de 80 rear at least as strong as te salisbury?

2Maggot how much work was it to fit the toy front axle onder the range, i cant find pic's of this swap.

thanks

Jorrit

FBF wrote:Thanks for all the rpl's. At the moment i doubt between

Nissan GQ at the front and a Toy 80 at the back

or

Front and rear 80's

Question is the 80 front as strong as de GQ? And is de 80 rear at least as strong as te salisbury?

2Maggot how much work was it to fit the toy front axle onder the range, i cant find pic's of this swap.

thanks

Jorrit

The toy front diff is a pain in the ass to fit compared to the GQ, you either need to cut all the mounts off both diffs like I did and weld the rover stuff to the 80 diff, or make custom mounts on the chassis to take the 80 series control arms. If you use the rover arms you have to crank them to get them to clear the tierod.

If you use a GQ front, it bolts straight in, all you need to do is make a custom steering arm and panhard.

Here is the link to the whole build up of my truck
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=43387

A stock H260 and a stock 35 spline Dana 60 (with stock spicer axles) should be about the same strength (though the D60 has a lot more potential thanks to all the aftermarket parts).

Both of these will be way stronger than a stock salisbury, due to the salisbury axle diemater.

A stock 80series cruiser diff has a smaller ring gear, so is likely to be a bit weaker in the ring gear than a H260 or D60/Sals. But the cruisers have 30 spline 1.31 axles versus the 24 spline 1.24 axles, so overall, the cruiser axle should be stronger - especially since stock cruiser axles seem to be made from better material than stock LR axles.

ISUZUROVER wrote:A stock H260 and a stock 35 spline Dana 60 (with stock spicer axles) should be about the same strength (though the D60 has a lot more potential thanks to all the aftermarket parts).

Both of these will be way stronger than a stock salisbury, due to the salisbury axle diemater.

A stock 80series cruiser diff has a smaller ring gear, so is likely to be a bit weaker in the ring gear than a H260 or D60/Sals. But the cruisers have 30 spline 1.31 axles versus the 24 spline 1.24 axles, so overall, the cruiser axle should be stronger - especially since stock cruiser axles seem to be made from better material than stock LR axles.

Stock cruiser axels are stronger - no question.

We are currently running stock 60 series front axels in the buggy. Have not broken one yet - despite all of our efforts. We have busted a HTE treated CV though.

The only drama with D60 is width.


Micka

ISUZUROVER wrote:A stock H260 and a stock 35 spline Dana 60 (with stock spicer axles) should be about the same strength (though the D60 has a lot more potential thanks to all the aftermarket parts).

I'm curious about this, what exactly makes them equal strong?

37 vs. 35 spline.
1.51" vs. 1.50" diameter shafts.
10.25" vs. 9.75" diameter ring gear.
3rd member vs. solid housing.

That's all I need to know.

I think with diffs built like those, if one is stronger than the other.... well its purely academic really.

TLCOR wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:A stock H260 and a stock 35 spline Dana 60 (with stock spicer axles) should be about the same strength (though the D60 has a lot more potential thanks to all the aftermarket parts).

I'm curious about this, what exactly makes them equal strong?

37 vs. 35 spline.
1.51" vs. 1.50" diameter shafts.
10.25" vs. 9.75" diameter ring gear.
3rd member vs. solid housing.

That's all I need to know.

It does not work that way.

There is a post in General Tech about this very thing. Sam Overton's post explain the details.

Here is the link...

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... dana+vs+gu


Micka

Micka wrote:

TLCOR wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:A stock H260 and a stock 35 spline Dana 60 (with stock spicer axles) should be about the same strength (though the D60 has a lot more potential thanks to all the aftermarket parts).

I'm curious about this, what exactly makes them equal strong?

37 vs. 35 spline.
1.51" vs. 1.50" diameter shafts.
10.25" vs. 9.75" diameter ring gear.
3rd member vs. solid housing.

That's all I need to know.

It does not work that way.

There is a post in General Tech about this very thing. Sam Overton's post explain the details.

Here is the link...

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... dana+vs+gu


Micka

Interesting thread indeed! But it pretty much only stated that 60's are stronger than GU front axles, and that is no surprise to me. So, that means my question still stands.

One more thing, what vehicles came with full floating 60's? I've never heard of such thing, are they refering to Corporate 14 Bolts?

FBF wrote:...Question is the 80 front as strong as de GQ? And is de 80 rear at least as strong as te salisbury?

thanks

Jorrit

80 front diff is nowhere near as strong as GQ front diff. I would guess (from the specifications that I know of) that the 80 and GQ front axles (halfshafts) are similar strength. 80 cv's are larger (stronger) than GQ. 80's have problems with strength of stud bolts in the drive flanges, so most people increase the diameter from 8mm to 10mm.

Whether 80 rear is as strong as Salisbury is probably academic for most rover owners as the 80 would be strong enough for them (if stud bolts are upgraded). The 79 and 100 series rears are stronger than the 80 IMHO.