Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Will they fit with only a 2" sus lift? or should i get 30mm coil spacers as well?

Kruza wrote:Will they fit with only a 2" sus lift? or should i get 30mm coil spacers as well?

Does not matter if they will or not...cause you will have them off more than on.

Your front diff will go BANG

Just ask JOHNZ what happens with bigger tyres on Cruiser front diffs.

to answer the question - yes they will fit with 2" lift, but they will rub badly on articulation and possibly just on steering. even 2" coils with 30mm spacers will be borderline.

as for breaking the front diff, that's a lot of rot, drive sensibly and it will be fine. you can strengthen the front diff a LOT by fitting an air locker, and upgrading the mounting studs can give a slight increase in stiffness that may also be helpful. my 80 has 5" lift, 315/75 16 tyres, front and rear lockers, and has been punished without any drama from the front diff. The thing to watch out for is reversing uphill and/or with steering wound on but once again, good sense will keep you out of trouble.

Thanks, So the easy answer is No they wont fit.

So should look at getting something smaller?

Kruza wrote:Thanks, So the easy answer is No they wont fit.

So should look at getting something smaller?

nah get a bigger lift dude it will look fruit on 35's and 4" springs

dumbdunce wrote:to answer the question - yes they will fit with 2" lift, but they will rub badly on articulation and possibly just on steering. even 2" coils with 30mm spacers will be borderline.

as for breaking the front diff, that's a lot of rot, drive sensibly and it will be fine. you can strengthen the front diff a LOT by fitting an air locker, and upgrading the mounting studs can give a slight increase in stiffness that may also be helpful. my 80 has 5" lift, 315/75 16 tyres, front and rear lockers, and has been punished without any drama from the front diff. The thing to watch out for is reversing uphill and/or with steering wound on but once again, good sense will keep you out of trouble.

Dude...you have an 80. He has a 105.

Front diff will break. The 4.3 ratio in his diff is FAR weaker than the 4.1 in your diff.

80 series will cop the big lift/big tyres thing all day. But the 4.3 is made of butter. JOHNZ has broken 3 front diffs.

Here is the thread about it....

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... light=toyo


I am not trying to stir shite. Just telling what I know and have personally observed.


Micka

Micka wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:to answer the question - yes they will fit with 2" lift, but they will rub badly on articulation and possibly just on steering. even 2" coils with 30mm spacers will be borderline.

as for breaking the front diff, that's a lot of rot, drive sensibly and it will be fine. you can strengthen the front diff a LOT by fitting an air locker, and upgrading the mounting studs can give a slight increase in stiffness that may also be helpful. my 80 has 5" lift, 315/75 16 tyres, front and rear lockers, and has been punished without any drama from the front diff. The thing to watch out for is reversing uphill and/or with steering wound on but once again, good sense will keep you out of trouble.

Dude...you have an 80. He has a 105.

Front diff will break. The 4.3 ratio in his diff is FAR weaker than the 4.1 in your diff.

80 series will cop the big lift/big tyres thing all day. But the 4.3 is made of butter. JOHNZ has broken 3 front diffs.

Here is the thread about it....

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... light=toyo


I am not trying to stir shite. Just telling what I know and have personally observed.


Micka

MICKA IS RIGHT 100 SERIES FRONT DIFFS ARE WEAK AS PISS. IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE. 4WD MONTHLY EVEN BROKE A FRONT DIFF ON A TEST LAST YEAR. I HAVE BROKEN 3 DIFFS IN 4 MONTHS IN MY 100SERIES , YET I NEVER BROKE A DIFF IN MY 80 SERIES IN NINE YEARS.
EVEN LOCKERS DONT HELP. I HAD A AIR LOCKER & A DETROIT & DIFF BROKE BOTH TIMES DOING LESS THAN 2000 RPM

CHEERS JOHNZ

Got some the other day, dosen't rub much under flex but I still have my sway bars in.

Big tyres, bad picture due my having the shakes-



And before I put them on with the skinnies-



I have a flex photo but I am waiting for it to get developed. Should be up next week.

Kramer, how much lift and what size tyres did u get?

Where are u having the problems with them rubbing?

I haven't put a lift in at all (same height as the second photo), but will be putting in a 3 inch (still legal I think) just to help clear the sills and stuff.

The tyres are maxxis buckshot mudders 315/75/16.

It rubs on the inner guard (its plastic) when I turn, eg into the driveway etc. Dosen't seem to rub under flex in the rear but I still have swaybars in so that may help that. Under the front it will rub when turning full lock under flex.

Ok Tuf105 floggs the shit out of his unlocked 105 series and i mean he gives it arseholes and he hasnt broken it yet. Even goes hard on/ close to full lock. Put a solid front pinnion spacer in to stop the pinnion riding up the crown wheel if your worried.

it can't be just the ratio difference that is making them break, there has to be something else wrong. there are plenty of 80's etc out there running 4.88's, 5.29's, even 5.7's without busting all the time. My bundera had factory 4.875:1 gears, weighed 2300kg, high pinion front, and copped a caining, and the housing is the lightweight hilux style with the smaller carrier bearings. there is a bent axle housing or something in play that is causing these breakages. Busting a diff driving up a kerb? That just doesn't happen.

Think of the number of 105 series, and 78/79 series out there in mining and other industries, some with factory lockers, there's thousands of them out there being driven HARD by careless employees, if there was a serious, recurring problem with those diffs toyota would know about it, and there would be more public awareness of it. 315/75's aren't even that much bigger than the stock tyres, they are slightly smaller than 35's, and stock skinny 7.50/16's are about 32".

johnz I'm not calling you a fibber but running gear breakages just don't happen under low stress conditions - is it possible that the breakages happened soon after a big obstacle that was tackled with lots of loud pedal, and did not become apparent until the next, "soft" obstacle? it just doesn't make sense that you should bust stuff so easily.

(Also someone (Bush56?) please explain to me why a solid pinion bearing spacer is any better than a collapsible spacer? Aparet from making the diff slightly easier to assemble/reassemble to replace a pinion flange seal, it should make no difference to the strength of the assembly as far as I can see.)

cheers

DD

Thanks guys,

Im going to be ordering the 315/75R16's Wranglers, tomorrow. So will see after the weekend whether or not i need to put the coil spacers in.

Will post back to let you all know if they fit or not.

mate in my 4wd club has a 100 series 4.5l petrol, was running 35" coppers mudders, now 37" radial claws. he will drive full noise, ie on rev limiter, stuck in bog holes and the like, never once had problems with front diff.

Ive seen the 100 4.3 ratio diffs break so many times when out wheelin and most have been doin the reversing thing when they broke, but have seen them go drivin forwards as well. I got a HDJ80 with factory lockers and have givin it the berries ( well as much as a 1HDT can ) with upto 38's on and is still on its original diff centres ( have re bearinged the rear ) had the 4B 7 years now and done some hard wheelin before i got my 80UTE goin and now on family trips when i bolt on some big rubber. Ive made heaps of custom front diffs a few for hard core 80's but most for 78's & 100's and no come backs to date as its a fair exspense to replace the front and the customers have gotten sick of replacin with the same bits so invest in a tougher assembly that allows them to do what they want and go where they want with out the fear of the diff letting them down . I now what ive done with my 80UTE with the BB Chev and no STD front diff would have survived the abuse and im still haven't broken a front Nissan Centre. Not that im pushing the Nissan barrow but they have got good diff centres and heaps of factory ratios to pick from.

Wally

Kruza wrote:Im going to be ordering the 315/75R16's Wranglers, tomorrow.

What do you expect they will be worth?

I paid 330 a tyre prob 6 months ago


sorry for the hijack



Dan

MQ080 wrote:

Kruza wrote:Im going to be ordering the 315/75R16's Wranglers, tomorrow.

What do you expect they will be worth?

$330 got a quote on monday, and ordered them today will be on tomorrow

dumbdunce wrote:it can't be just the ratio difference that is making them break, there has to be something else wrong. there are plenty of 80's etc out there running 4.88's, 5.29's, even 5.7's without busting all the time. My bundera had factory 4.875:1 gears, weighed 2300kg, high pinion front, and copped a caining, and the housing is the lightweight hilux style with the smaller carrier bearings. there is a bent axle housing or something in play that is causing these breakages. Busting a diff driving up a kerb? That just doesn't happen.

Think of the number of 105 series, and 78/79 series out there in mining and other industries, some with factory lockers, there's thousands of them out there being driven HARD by careless employees, if there was a serious, recurring problem with those diffs toyota would know about it, and there would be more public awareness of it. 315/75's aren't even that much bigger than the stock tyres, they are slightly smaller than 35's, and stock skinny 7.50/16's are about 32".

johnz I'm not calling you a fibber but running gear breakages just don't happen under low stress conditions - is it possible that the breakages happened soon after a big obstacle that was tackled with lots of loud pedal, and did not become apparent until the next, "soft" obstacle? it just doesn't make sense that you should bust stuff so easily.

(Also someone (Bush56?) please explain to me why a solid pinion bearing spacer is any better than a collapsible spacer? Aparet from making the diff slightly easier to assemble/reassemble to replace a pinion flange seal, it should make no difference to the strength of the assembly as far as I can see.)

cheers

DD

i broke 3 diffs on 3 trips . the first could be as you said [previous abuse] as i bought the 100 series s/hand. 2nd diff broke within 6hrs with air locker fitted & 315s. i literally idled everywhere everywhere i went a 1993 pajero went although not as easily. by 2pm diff broke

next trip new diff & new detroit at ormeau on the water fall track both front wheels spining on the ground [not in the air] at 1500 rpm & bang.
eight mates could not believe their ears. micka was one of them.
i had taken my 80 series through there many times before & no problems.

the 8" hilux diff breaks in hilux's & prado's although not as often. same diff in 100 series.
100 series broken diff are all over the internet.

YOUR BUNDERA IS HALF THE WEIGHT & DOES NOT HAVE THE TORQUE
OF A TURBO 100 SERIES

CHEERS JOHNZ

Johnz, I gather you haven't been around here for long......

Dumbdance is very well known here and has been here for a long time, he certainly knows what he is talking about when it comes to Toyotas.

As you said you bought the 100 series 2nd hand, it could have been thrashed in a previous life. Your comments does not warrent that all 100 series are crap, I know a few friends who own one and have air lockers and give it heaps at times and not have a problem.

You will always have the odd 4wd in any model or make that will have problems

JOHNZ wrote: YOUR BUNDERA IS HALF THE WEIGHT & DOES NOT HAVE THE TORQUE
OF A TURBO 100 SERIES

Little bit "one eyed" don't you think, and lose the capslock man we don't want to start a war.

4.3 is a good strong diff not a great deal of difference from a 4.1 really

If i had broke even 1 diff after paying good money to have it rebuilt or replaced I'd have been asking some very pointed questions about the quality of parts and service where ever I had got it from, after just 1 trip. But 3 diffs in 3 trips?
C'mon, what is the whole story here? Where did you get those diffs from? Who installed them for you? What where you doing at the time of each breakage? What sort of wheeling do you do? I would love to know the answers to just those 1st 2 questions so I can avoid the place.

Thankyou for you time
Bundy_Harry

Mad Cruiser wrote:Johnz, I gather you haven't been around here for long......

Dumbdance is very well known here and has been here for a long time, he certainly knows what he is talking about when it comes to Toyotas.

As you said you bought the 100 series 2nd hand, it could have been thrashed in a previous life. Your comments does not warrent that all 100 series are crap, I know a few friends who own one and have air lockers and give it heaps at times and not have a problem.

You will always have the odd 4wd in any model or make that will have problems

Hey i am not having a go at dumbdance. I've had toyota's for 20 yrs & been very happy with them. i was just stating the facts. 3 broken diffs [ no full noise wheel stands or anything like that]the 2nd diff was done by toyota under warranty. the third diff was done by diff lapping. If you have mates that have no problems that's great for them. but there is plenty of 100 series owners that have lots of problems. on this site & 4wd monthly.I had an 80 series for 9yrs same driver,same tyres,same tracks no problems.
i still love the 100 series, i am just pissed that the front diff keeps breaking
& Toyota are voiding warranty so I making sure everybody knows about it.
the fact still remains that the front diff is undersize for a 4wd of this size & weight. Other member of this forum have see these diffs break it's not just me. it's very disapointing when a pajero goes up hills that break 100 series diffs. 100 series seem to be more vunerable than 80 series. the only basic difference is more weight & lower diffs. I can not think of any other reason.[ kept stripping teeth from crown wheel ] I have fixed my problem by fitting a nissan centre which is much bigger [the crown wheel teeth are twice the size].
If someone asks for advice on any vehicle & you know there is a problem would'nt you tell tell them. unfortunatly i was not aware of the problem when i bought my 2003 100 series. I should have kept my 80 series.

cheers Johnz

Bundy_Harry wrote:

JOHNZ wrote: YOUR BUNDERA IS HALF THE WEIGHT & DOES NOT HAVE THE TORQUE
OF A TURBO 100 SERIES

Little bit "one eyed" don't you think, and lose the capslock man we don't want to start a war.

4.3 is a good strong diff not a great deal of difference from a 4.1 really

If i had broke even 1 diff after paying good money to have it rebuilt or replaced I'd have been asking some very pointed questions about the quality of parts and service where ever I had got it from, after just 1 trip. But 3 diffs in 3 trips?
C'mon, what is the whole story here? Where did you get those diffs from? Who installed them for you? What where you doing at the time of each breakage? What sort of wheeling do you do? I would love to know the answers to just those 1st 2 questions so I can avoid the place.

Thankyou for you time
Bundy_Harry

The !st & 3rd was at ormeau with quite a few other guys & they were amazed at how easily the diff broke. the 2nd diff was at janowen hills 4wd park & a pajero went everywhere i went, although he tried a lot harder than i did. most of the driving that day was done at idle up 2000rpm. i was running 315/75 -16 mudstars.

cheers Johnz

i saw a mate blow his front diff on his 100s running an air locker f&r and 305's
He was winching up a hill just on idle. He got slightly in front of the cable, as he went to put his brake on, BANG went his front diff. We have it on video and have gone over it and evryone was shocked how easy it went.
He now drives a GU.

BTW Toyota replaced it under warrenty.
The owner of the Wonangatta caravan park has blown 2 in the front of his ute.

I too give mine a hard time . Locked and 315/75/16 and has been sweet..

But ,when in standard form i busted one .....

Never reverse up anything steep,and never snatch anyone in reverse either...

i have a club member who has been through 6 diffs...i think its all about how and who sets the centres up.............

For those of us who don't know Toyotas that well, the 100 series people are talking about here - are they IFS or live axle versions?

DD

From 4.3 to 4.1, is it possible the difference is thickness of the crown wheel?

As to your question about the collapsible spacer: I haven't seen the setup (so I'm probably wrong again ) but I can imagine a hypoid pinion will transmit axial force? Just my intuition speaking...

Cheers,

Scott

I also was with Johnz on some of the trips ( the mentioned Paj driver) and was amaized at what happened. The scarey part is that a stock Grand Vitara ( suzi) went up before me. There was no wheels in the air ( well not from JohnZ ( Paj has a nasty habit of wheelstanding) and he was just idling. We have reviewed the video and there is nothing that would indicate he was pushing it. When we looked at the 3 diffs it is straight metal fatigue from the way the metal has fractured.

I have heared of more and more 100 series with broken diffs. It seems to becoming more and more common.

I have known JohnZ for quite a while and he is an avid Toyota supporter but from what I have now seen, I will not be looking to update to an 100 series.

A mate of mine with a 1HZ N/A is on his 5th, doesn't thrash it, we have met people while out and about that have broken more, on the other hand another mate had his 1HZ running 18psi and thrashed the crap out of it every where, blew the engine up, did gearbox linkages etc but never did a diff in the 5 years he had it. Greenfourby had a petrol auto and thrashed it as well and again no broken diffs

I have no dought there is an inherant problem that effects some. It seams the folk who have broken one have broken several and most I know have ended up driving likl girly men coz they are so scared of breaking them and still break them driving this way

I was just rereading the comments. Mad Crusier and Dumdance, I think John is just one very disapointed Toyota driver. He has been singing their praises to me as long as I have know him and for this to happen to him was very upsetting for all who were there. I know JohnZ still thinks that the 100 series is a great 4wd but is upset that he has had to resort to splicing a Nissan Patrol diff to get around the issue.

I don't think he meant anything by the caps lock.

Put yourself in his shoes, you break 3 diffs in 4 months of your prized 4wd.
The car was off the road while it was being fixed and Toyota was giving him the run around as well as having his nose rubbed in the Paj/ Suzi thing as well as co piloting in a Paj on some trips for me.......now that hurts.

Now back to the Mitsi site for me. I don't want to get you TLC guy's upset.
you are bigger than me........

using new login so you can't find me.................

before I go, are they breaking in more manuals than autos????

Therefore the problem does not lie with Toyota Landcruisers, it usually lies with the people who repaired the diffs, they could have not done something right there such as right torquing bolts sealing up etc