Outer Limits 4x4 Board

4.6 or 6.5? I've heard from one source that the 6.5's tend to create more carbon dust and that unless you're competing to stick with the 4.6 so I'm looking for other opinions as to which way to go.

You need to ask your self if the extra cost is worth the extra pull. If you have a normal vehicle then just run a 4.6hp motor. It'll be more than enough to get you into or out of trouble. If you want to speed things up then step up to the 6.5hp motor. This motor seems to handle an extra 12 volts a little better as well.

toughnut wrote:You need to ask your self if the extra cost is worth the extra pull. If you have a normal vehicle then just run a 4.6hp motor. It'll be more than enough to get you into or out of trouble. If you want to speed things up then step up to the 6.5hp motor. This motor seems to handle an extra 12 volts a little better as well.

The 6.5 HP dosen't have more pull as the motor torque is related to volts and amps so changing the motor does nothing there as far as the extra HP goes it gets the job done faster. Torque is the motors ability to do work and HP is the amount of work done over time. Ive got a 12v 6.5 HP on my himount running 24v and it just screems (revs heaps faster )compared to 12v 2.5 hp with 12v, then with 24v, 12v 4.6 hp with 12v, 24v 2.5 hp with 24v and 12v 5.5 hp t-max motor with 12 v. As you can see ive tried quite a few combinations and the Warn 12v 6.5 hp motor with 24v is by far the best combination for performance and is still going well to date. I pump air through the motor and out near the brushes and you can clearly see the carbon dust coming out through the clear tubing. I would be uncomforable not getting rid of the carbon dust especially with 24 volt as if you get a short in the motor it will just fry every thing.

Wally

Yeah you're right. I said it the wrong way around. Other things you can do before spending extra cash on a different motor is to make sure that your solenoid is working effectively and not reducing the power going to your winch and put the solenoids as close to the winch as possible. That's why most fitters place the solenoid box on the bar or even on the winch itself. Having said this you also need to protect your solenoids from the elements so you don't reduce their effectiveness.

I don't have any motor at the moment so I need a new one anyway. It won't be a 24V setup, I will only be running 12V. I have the old style solinoid pack and will make sure it is as good as can be but will probably mount it in the engine bay like my lowmont one was.

80UTE, Got any details/pics on the plumbed air setup?

80ute, if both these motors are put under load the 6hp should have a quicker line retrevial rate, is the right??

Daniels

I pull my motors of after each comp and spray them down to get rid of the crap with co contact cleaner which you can buy from DickSmith, autobarn and so on.

LudaCris

Dave Metcalfe (MMM on this board) has a single solenoid to replace the normal solenoid pack. I replaced my normal pack with one of these and the winch worked heaps harder than normal. They cost a bit over $300 and the people I know that have a spare haven't needed to use it.

toughnut wrote:Dave Metcalfe (MMM on this board) has a single solenoid to replace the normal solenoid pack. I replaced my normal pack with one of these and the winch worked heaps harder than normal. They cost a bit over $300 and the people I know that have a spare haven't needed to use it.

Do you have the solenoid details and where from?
Regards Matt

well worth the $300

matt.mcinnes wrote:

toughnut wrote:Dave Metcalfe (MMM on this board) has a single solenoid to replace the normal solenoid pack. I replaced my normal pack with one of these and the winch worked heaps harder than normal. They cost a bit over $300 and the people I know that have a spare haven't needed to use it.

Do you have the solenoid details and where from?
Regards Matt

Just PM EXTREME MMM (Dave Metcalfe) on this board or send him an email
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... file&u=170

cj wrote:I don't have any motor at the moment so I need a new one anyway. It won't be a 24V setup, I will only be running 12V. I have the old style solinoid pack and will make sure it is as good as can be but will probably mount it in the engine bay like my lowmont one was.

80UTE, Got any details/pics on the plumbed air setup?

Ive got a air horn compressor mounted as high as possible in the engine bay in the inner gaurd. I drilled and tapped 1/8NPT hole into the bottom of the motor close to where it mounts to the winch with enough clearance to get the hose on. Drilled and tapped a 1/8NPT hole motor end cover towards the top so the hotter ait will exit. i fitted 1/8ntp-5/16 brass hose tails to both drilled and tapped holes, fitted clear 8mm plasitic tubing to pump the air into the bottom of the motor and out of the top of the motor cover and back into the engine bay nice and high so to prevent water ingrese when not winching. The compressor runs when ever the winch motor is opereated by picking up power from the winch soleniods.

Wally

DanielS wrote:80ute, if both these motors are put under load the 6hp should have a quicker line retrevial rate, is the right??

Daniels

Because HP is the amount of work done over time the 6HP moto0r can do more work in the same period of time or do the same amount of work in less time so yes it is faster. It does not pull harder as the torque produced is limited by the available volts and amps of the system. I have a 24v system so when charging sits on 28-30v when winching hard the volts drop to 24v so voltage drop is not an issue for me concidering im using a 12v motor. I have broken 11mm plasma rope so i would have to say it pulls harder buts thats related to the 24v and high amps available in my system. Ive got mate with 12v 6hp motors running 12v himount and compared to the 12v 2.5hp himoun on the missus 80 they are heaps faster but noware near as fast as my 24v himount.

Wally

Thanks Wally

80UTE wrote:

cj wrote:I don't have any motor at the moment so I need a new one anyway. It won't be a 24V setup, I will only be running 12V. I have the old style solinoid pack and will make sure it is as good as can be but will probably mount it in the engine bay like my lowmont one was.

80UTE, Got any details/pics on the plumbed air setup?

Ive got a air horn compressor mounted as high as possible in the engine bay in the inner gaurd. I drilled and tapped 1/8NPT hole into the bottom of the motor close to where it mounts to the winch with enough clearance to get the hose on. Drilled and tapped a 1/8NPT hole motor end cover towards the top so the hotter ait will exit. i fitted 1/8ntp-5/16 brass hose tails to both drilled and tapped holes, fitted clear 8mm plasitic tubing to pump the air into the bottom of the motor and out of the top of the motor cover and back into the engine bay nice and high so to prevent water ingrese when not winching. The compressor runs when ever the winch motor is opereated by picking up power from the winch soleniods.

Wally

Wally,

How long have you been running the air horn compressor?

I have been considering using one of these pumps too but thought they'd have a fairly low duty cycle and flog out pretty quickly. Although cheap, I wouldn't like to need to replace the pump once a month, etc.

Cheers,
Kris

80UTE wrote:As you can see ive tried quite a few combinations and the Warn 12v 6.5 hp motor with 24v is by far the best combination for performance and is still going well to date.

What mods are done to run 24v on a 12v motor?

bogged wrote:

80UTE wrote:As you can see ive tried quite a few combinations and the Warn 12v 6.5 hp motor with 24v is by far the best combination for performance and is still going well to date.

What mods are done to run 24v on a 12v motor?

thats a secret

bogged wrote:

80UTE wrote:As you can see ive tried quite a few combinations and the Warn 12v 6.5 hp motor with 24v is by far the best combination for performance and is still going well to date.

What mods are done to run 24v on a 12v motor?

Shhh....you might want to mount a 24V alternator and you'll need the right battery setup too .... but I didn't tell you

cj wrote:

bogged wrote:

80UTE wrote:As you can see ive tried quite a few combinations and the Warn 12v 6.5 hp motor with 24v is by far the best combination for performance and is still going well to date.

What mods are done to run 24v on a 12v motor?

Shhh....you might want to mount a 24V alternator and you'll need the right battery setup too .... but I didn't tell you

I think that's pretty obvious but I think he's asking if/what mods are required on the motor itself.

cj wrote:

bogged wrote:

80UTE wrote:As you can see ive tried quite a few combinations and the Warn 12v 6.5 hp motor with 24v is by far the best combination for performance and is still going well to date.

What mods are done to run 24v on a 12v motor?

Shhh....you might want to mount a 24V alternator and you'll need the right battery setup too .... but I didn't tell you

I think that's pretty obvious but I think he's asking if/what mods are required on the motor itself to run with 24v.

Kris, I run a similar set up to Wally but use an el cheapo from Super cheap auto, cost me $6 but havent had it long enough to know how long it will last. Seems to be a bit better than an air horn comp. I guess only time will tell...

cj wrote:Shhh....you might want to mount a 24V alternator and you'll need the right battery setup too .... but I didn't tell you

Back in ya box Upside down tourer...

Jeff80 wrote:Kris, I run a similar set up to Wally but use an el cheapo from Super cheap auto, cost me $6 but havent had it long enough to know how long it will last. Seems to be a bit better than an air horn comp. I guess only time will tell...

Yeah, I also thought about a cheap tyre compressor but thought the air flow would not be enough to adequately cool the motor.

Air horn pumps are high volume, low pressure but as they are a dry pump I reckon they'd shiat em selves pretty quick.

As you say, time will tell ...

bogged wrote:

cj wrote:Shhh....you might want to mount a 24V alternator and you'll need the right battery setup too .... but I didn't tell you

Back in ya box Upside down tourer...

Ouch! ....but you asked

Yeah, I have made a few other mods to help boost pressure through the winch without blowing seals which work well.

Sorry folks - I'm bored.

Power = current x volts. If the motor has "more power" it's either got more voltage, more current, or both. Yes, the torque of the motor is a measure of it's pull strength. Power is a measure of it's pull speed. If two motors have the same torque the higher power motor will pull faster. (Presuming identical gearboxes...)

If two motors are both running on 12V, the higher power motor is drawing more current.

If we want to get picky, we can talk about resistive losses in the wiring and solenoids, reducing the voltage at the motor so it's no longer 12V (or 24V, as the case may be.) MMM's single solenoid has fewer connections in the wiring, so fewer resistive losses in the circuit. Fewer losses = higher voltage at the motor = more power = .

Cheers,

Scott

[quote="NJ SWB"]Sorry folks - I'm bored. ]

There's one in every crowd

RoldIT wrote:

80UTE wrote:

cj wrote:I don't have any motor at the moment so I need a new one anyway. It won't be a 24V setup, I will only be running 12V. I have the old style solinoid pack and will make sure it is as good as can be but will probably mount it in the engine bay like my lowmont one was.

80UTE, Got any details/pics on the plumbed air setup?

Ive got a air horn compressor mounted as high as possible in the engine bay in the inner gaurd. I drilled and tapped 1/8NPT hole into the bottom of the motor close to where it mounts to the winch with enough clearance to get the hose on. Drilled and tapped a 1/8NPT hole motor end cover towards the top so the hotter ait will exit. i fitted 1/8ntp-5/16 brass hose tails to both drilled and tapped holes, fitted clear 8mm plasitic tubing to pump the air into the bottom of the motor and out of the top of the motor cover and back into the engine bay nice and high so to prevent water ingrese when not winching. The compressor runs when ever the winch motor is opereated by picking up power from the winch soleniods.

Wally

Wally,

How long have you been running the air horn compressor?

I have been considering using one of these pumps too but thought they'd have a fairly low duty cycle and flog out pretty quickly. Although cheap, I wouldn't like to need to replace the pump once a month, etc.

Cheers,
Kris

I run the Hella 24 volt air horn conpressor and has been on for a about a year now. To cool the motor you need flow and not pressure so thats why i used the air horn compressor and the return/exit hose has an open end to reduce backpressure and keep the flow up the compressor only runs when winching to reduce running time. As for mods to the motor its a std 6.5 HP 12v Warn motor. I was informed by very reliable sorce that the std 6.5 12v motor with 24v up its bum was about the best combination and the motors are good value for money if you buy them at the right price. But be warned if you stall the motor its all over as it instantly has a internal melt down and is ready for the bin.

Wally

Sounds good. Thanks.