Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys. Went on my first trip in the Sierra on the weekend and damnnn.... sooo much bloody fun. Can't wait to go out again. Mud/dirt tracks were the highlights for me but I had a few issues along the way.

Issue 1: After some thrashing I started to overheat. 4AGE 20v, not revving it up too high though but the lack or airflow over the radiator was the problem. So the overflow bottle was full and coolant was spraying out by the time I pulled over. Once that stopped, I stupidly opened the radiator cap and out sprayed the coolant and water about 3 metres high, getting the engine wet with coolant and emptying my radiator. The only water nearby was creek water so we topped it up with this water (was very clean) and I emptied the overflow bottle back into the radiator as I didn't have any coolant onhand. However, after this, the car now struggles between about 20 and 70% throttle to the point where it slows the car down, even downhill. Just holding the throttle keeps a constant speed but to accelerate I have to floor it. Could this be an issue with the water? I topped up the coolant asap and it now runs fine without overheating. Could this be the moisture from when the radiator sprayed crap everywhere? Like I said, full throttle is fine with no power loss but anywhere around the midrange is totally screwed. It just coughs and loses power. This was still the case over 24 hours after it started most of which the car was not even running (see below).

Issue 2: Driving along and my mate pulls me up to tell me that fuel is pissing out the back of my car. I stop and lo and behold, there is a perfect circle hole in the bottom of the fuel tank which has fuel pouring out of it. The RACQ guy I spoke to later said that it looks like there's been a screw in there and it probably rattled out. Anyway, I bought some metal epoxy stuff and a perfectly sized screw and I wound that in as well as the expoxy around it so it's now a damn solid seal. Don't know why the hell there was a screw hole there unless it was designed as a drain hole. It pulled my car out of action for most of the trip though as we had to leave it at the servo overnight to wait for the auto supplies place to open and sell me some epoxy.

Issue 3: One track had been corregated for grip and this was way too rough for my liking. Crap banging and rattling about like crazy. Definately something I'm going to avoid in the future. Are there things I should check after such driving? I'm thinking of making sure any suspension and steering components are still tight. At this point I'm very happy that I had coils under me and not leafs. The track was terrible.

Issue 4: My mate plowed through a creek a few times in his Vitara. Afterwards his engine ran like crap. Seemed to be the same engine issue as mine although his was even worse. His airbox had water in it which had made it's way through the intake pipe into the box somehow. The filter was a little wet. Would this have been the problem or something else getting wet like his plugs? It didn't really get any better even after 2 hours of driving. Neither did mine.

Anyway, I'm going to buy a thermo fan to help with the cooling. Is this just a more powerful fan that replaces the original?

I'm going to leave the fuel tank for now. I plan not to do much rocky stuff and I have enough lift so it shouldn't get bumped.

I think I'll get a snorkel to keep water out of the intake. I think mud and water are where I want to head with this car as so far they're definately the most fun.

Any advice on the above engine problems is appreciated though. My car never hit maximum temp so I'm hoping I didn't screw my engine with the overheating but it did run worse after this point which I'm hoping is related to the water and coolant spraying everywhere. My mates car also has a problem which was brought on by water.

Thanks guys. I had a blast and can't wait to go out again.

I'll leave it too others to answer most of your questions with regards to water cooling and related issues, but I have a thermo fan and couldn't live without it. My car came with it fitted so I can't make a real-world comparison against a fan-driven one but when it kicks in you know it's on

A nice tip too is to wire an on/off switch for it to your dash so you can turn the fan off so it doesn't draw in water when you're doing river crossings.

The poor engine problems after the trips thru the water maybe electrical related... Wouldnt hurt to check the electrics.(dizzy, leads etc)
Just a thought

Eff

no .2.

Was this is in the middle of the tank? The earlier sierras and posb the coilys had a drain hole in the middle. This plug may have worked it way loose.

Nic

My dads the president of the melbourne jeep owners club and if they stall in water they dont turn the key because if you do all the water in the air box gets in your engine and blowes it up! What they do drain the air box get the water out of the throtlle body and then take out all spark plugs and fire it up(watch water come out of all the holes!) leave it run for 20 minutes or so then put it all back together again. Dont know if you only had a little bit of water in but it may help you pull out the spark plugs and try to get it going! Just a thought.

suzuki boy wrote:My dads the president of the melbourne jeep owners club and if they stall in water they dont turn the key because if you do all the water in the air box gets in your engine and blowes it up! What they do drain the air box get the water out of the throtlle body and then take out all spark plugs and fire it up(watch water come out of all the holes!) leave it run for 20 minutes or so then put it all back together again. Dont know if you only had a little bit of water in but it may help you pull out the spark plugs and try to get it going! Just a thought.

Um....pull out the spark plugs and try to get it running...........good luck lol
If you fill a motor up with water, you pull the plugs out and wind it over to get teh water out of the cylinders. You then have to re-fit the plugs before it will run again . Check all your electrics for water, sounds like this may be causeing your problem. Also check if you have got water/mud in the intake tube and throttle body, as if you have done this, you probably got it inside the motor too. How long was it run hot, running a motor hot for extended period of time will damage it, even if it doesn't quite reach the full hot section. Using creek water also may affect the cooling system if it has fouled any sensors. Make sure this is fully flushed out, as it will also accelerate corrosion oin the cooling system.

Layto....

I may be wrong but isnt the 4age motors originally east west motors??

Therefore you would already have a thermo fan.

CanberraMav wrote:I may be wrong but isnt the 4age motors originally east west motors??

Therefore you would already have a thermo fan.

Engine fans from other 4a motors (like in sprinters and other toyota's) can fit, as these are noth south mounted. If not there isnt too much trouble to find another fan that will mount up, but a thermo would be worth looking at still.
Layto....

Had a look this arvo and my 4AGE which is mounted N/S is already fitted with a thermo fan... damn...

Guess I might need to see if I can get a bigger one or go for a radiator upgrade. Maybe some better coolant.

I didn't take it for a drive but I'll report back in the morning when I know how it went. I'll see how my mates Vitara is going as well.

And as for the hole, it was pretty much dead centre and was definately not damage. Either way, it shouldn't come loose again.

As for how long it was running hot? No idea... but I noticed it when it was at about 3/4. It normally sits just below 1/2.

I assume its efi.
If so, when they get water where its not wanted, the computer compensates, or limps, and even if you dry it out, the computer can get tricked.. Sometimes disconnecting battery, and draining residual charge by turning key, can fix prob by resetting pooter. Worth a try.

Also getting a little of that concrete type mud in the radiator fins can overheat engines, especially finicky ones.

We use a radiator blind in this type of situation, which slides in, or clips on, just for the mud crossing, then comes off.

As stated, an override to turn fan off is wise, as they can throw mud and crud around engine bay.

Overheating can put computer in limp mode, too.

Hopefully motor ain't buggered, but is possible..good luck with it all

christover

what radiator are you using? The alloy ones in the coily's (ive found) are exceptionally good at maintaining temperature. Even if i give mine a hard time, with little motion, it will barely move any higher than halfway on the needle. Most of the time its happy to sit just below half.

4age has the spark plugs in the middle of the head doesn't it ?
Check that they are dry.. Find yourself a tube of silicon grease\dielectric grease and pop a light smear around the ceramic part of the spark plug where the rubber boot contacts it (helps waterproofing) also check the various connectors etc and give em a light spray with a drying fluid to help get rid of any water still sitting around..
put a small smear of dielectric grease on the various connectors again to help keep water at bay..

As far as the dielectric grease goes use it sparingly thin smears only (its much better than silicone sealant as it's reusable and does not "wick" water like a silicone seal that has been broken and put back together)

ensure the engine management computer is high and dry

if your going to play in mud/water get yourself a snorkel and make sure it's water tight to the air box, also get ready for hefty maintenance bills it will destroy seals, contaminate oil get into your wheel bearings etc check all this frequently, Fit a larger radiator you will need wheel speed in bogs which means extend high engine RPM's at low vehicle speeds (not a lot of airflow through the engine bay) also as the radiator gets clogged up with mud it will become less effective so the greater fluid capacity with a relatively course fins (easier to clean and a bit more robust as their thicker) .. Do you have rear disks ... if you don't get some the rear shoes in the drums can last less than a trip if the mud is a bit sandy..

The list goes on ..

Mud is great fun to play in, but you pay a heavy toll as far as maintaining your car

I checked the spark leads although not the plugs as they're not easily accesible but I'll have a crack tonight. Either way, there was not really that much water that went through the engine bay. Only the spray from the radiator.

Also, the problem seems to not really be there when the car is cold but gets worse as I've been driving it for a bit. And it's only at mid throttle. So damn confusing... I put some injector cleaner in there this morning just in case the problem was due to water getting into the intake and in the engine so I'll see how this goes. Also, the ECU reset idea sounds interesting. My ECU is currently located inside the car under the glove box so I can easily access all the connectors. I'm assuming that unplugging it all and then replugging it would be the same as a reset? I'll try this tonight.

If that still fails, then off to the mechanic I'll make sure I find out what exactly the problem was so I can avoid it in the future. Thanks for the help so far. Any more ideas are always appreciated.

I think you can just remove a battery terminal to reset computer.
My mate with the sr20 zook has a battery disconnect switch in the battery cable.
He just turns off battery, turns key and that usually resets it.

christover

Was this is in the middle of the tank? The earlier sierras and posb the coilys had a drain hole in the middle. This plug may have worked it way loose.

No coily I have ever come in contact with has had this.

I had a 4agze motor in my zook and had heaps of heating problems. I went a 3 core radiator from a gemini i think and it still heated up. The exaust manifold temps were creating enough heat to cook an egg on the bonnet.

I never overcame my heating probs i ended up selling the car. Around town it was always fine but off road with little airflow was always trouble. I ran thermos on it also and made a correct shroud and all the normal stuff that is heat related but could never cure the problem. They have a special way of connecting the heter hoses i was told which could have been the problem but i never got that far.


Oh........and also use an aftermarket guage for you temps or make sure your toyota motor has ben fitted with the suzuki sender or your temp readings will be way off.

On mine if the guage got to half the toyota motor would be cooking.

Talk to DREW on here about the heating on 4ag's.

His is running non std accessories and runs ok i believe.

Nic

nicbeer wrote:Talk to DREW

My name's Drew. Coincidence

Thanks for the input so far guys. I think a radiator upgrade should be enough as it only just overheats when not moving much which I noticed after I was keeping a closer eye on it (ie. after blowout).

Besides, winter is coming to I have a few months to sort something out. I just hope that my engine gets better :(

If I'm unlucky and it's screwed, then I'll thrash it till it dies completely, sell the Skyline, and fit a 4AGZE or a 4AGE 16v.

I need more low down torque.

For starters which 20v are you using & with what computer ??
it could be different problems depending on what version.
also what radiator i've tried a few & found that vitara alloy radiators work well with ge's.
how is it plumbed ?.

if your local i can have a look at it for you.

as for torque gear accordingly maybe 5.1s i reckon.

canberra mav sounds like yours had othrer issues like running lean & the standard top mount interwarmer i mean cooler is useless off road.

Dee 4x4 wrote:

nicbeer wrote:Talk to DREW

My name's Drew. Coincidence

hello Drew and Drew my name is also Drew

Woo. Looks like the engine problem went away.

Monday night I cleaned out the air filter which wasn't really dirty, checked all the spark plug leads and the distributor for water, and threw a bottle of injector cleaner in there on the way to work. All of this did nothing and I was left with the problem as well as the idea that water had nothing to do with it.

To describe the problem further, slight throttle was fine, medium throttle upon acceleration would cough and lose power, full throttle was fine. Backing off to medium from full throttle was fine but as soon as you pushed back in, it would die off again until you floored it.

So last night (Tuesday) I decided to take a look at the lines to check for kinks. Everything seemed fine although there was a fuel line that was on a sharp angle which I straightened out a bit. As mentioned by someone else, the ECU could have gone into a limp/retard mode and it was suggested I reset it so this morning before work I pulled out the plugs to the ECU (easier than disconnection my dual batteries as the ECU is under the glove box) and then plugged it all back in.

And it drove perfect all the way to the station. I'm inclined to believe that it was the ECU reacting to the overheating as this was when it occured. Or it could have been the tight hose I adjusted which may have kinked slighlty when the engine overheated due to the high temps. Either way, she's running sweet and I've saved myself a trip to the mechanic.

As for the heating issue, there's a spare switch on my dash which I'm going to hook up to the thermo but I'm also thinking of going dual thermos to cover more of the radiator. I could even have switches for both so I'm not wasting power unless it's needed.

Working stuff out yourself is so much more satisfying that forking out cash and having a mechanic do it for ya. Thanks heaps for the info in this thread. It was invaluable.

Out of curiosity, what can cause a computer to go into limp mode? Its just that my car seems to be fine when accelerting, but when I put medium throttle to try and cruise at a constant speed, it splutters and coughs... (not all the time). Could this be related to an overheating issue?(I have dismissed this problem in my mind though when it does it when the engine is still cold)....


Thanks again,

Beaver

HER'ES A TIP.... Holes in fuel tanks or fuel lines or carby fuel bowls or even fuel pumps can be plugged up with ordinary bathroom soap. I carry a cake in my toolbox for emergencies. Patches can last for months, even years if they don't get wet with water. Petrol eats most epoxy fillers but if you plug with soap and then epoxy over it is almost permanent.

i got the 4age 16 valve n found wen i went through water holes that it wud run shit for a bit, solved this by coverint the dizzy wit a washin up rubber glove with the finger tips cut off for the leads n zip-tied each one to act as a seal. works well for water holes that aren't too deep, its more of a resistance from splsh ect.

and am using a 14" VN comodore electric fan hooked up to a switch. to turn off goin through water wholes ect.

take your radiator out and get it to a radiator specialist. i have found it to be a common overheating problem that they can be up to 80% blocked (internally) and still be ok onroad but shoot off the scale when off roading.