Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I helped a mate in Italy (Michele) install his cro-mo longfields and rovertracks axles on the weekend.

Apparently this was the first longfield conversion in Italy, and possibly the first in europe. We learnt a lot about LR engineering tolerances. The stub axles had 0.2mm difference in diameter, so one needed boring and one didn't. The longfields also had 0.1mm difference in diameter in the section that runs on the bronze bush. So one of the rovertracks bronze bushes we used (not the same as toyota - made so you don't need the steel sleeve) had to be bored slightly.

We also found out that between 1986 and 1997, LR changed the brake caliper bolts from M12 coarse to M12 fine.

Now some pics:

Boring the chrome balls, and machining/boring the stub axles:

Parts after machining:
Axle comparison:

Michele already has rover ARBs F&R and 24 spline rovertracks rear axles. So the new front rovertracks inner axles are 24 spline on the diff end and 30 spline on the CV end.

There is a huge difference in size between the silly little rover 1" 32 spline inners and the 1.3" 30 spline inners.

And almost finished...

The rovertracks drive flanges were extremely beefy, and use series end caps.

We also swapped the 1997 model swivel housings for 1986 model ones with an oil drain. The swivels, hubs and bearings are now oil lubricated, so everything should last longer.

Good Work!!!

where do u go 4x4ing in Italy? I didn’t see much country side when I was there a few years ago....


Mick

where do u go 4x4ing in Italy? I didn’t see much country side

I think you have to get out more

Call me next time!


Nothing "extreme" but there are some nice places you have to visit,I attached a couple of pics below.


Back to the ToyRover conversion...
...finally!...whoa...I think I spent the last month or more just checking and re-checking things to headache...it was a slow process...and I am slow as well when it comes to modify my truck...as Ben found out


Again,thanks mate.

Later...

I took my cousin from Milano 4x4ing here in Melbourne last year and he crapped his pants!! He also told me no one in Italy goes four wheel driving cause there are no four wheel drives or places to drive them…… I think he needs to get out more!!

Some notes...

My truck had double lipped seals already fitted.
Although we really appreciated this bonus which saved us from some extra work,I'm not aware of any modification of this kind made by the previous owner...
Anyway

We had the balls bored,although,as far as I knew,you're only supposed to do that if you want to fit a Toy diff as well,in which case they have to be bored to 1.350”.

The inner axles...we chatted a lot about the need of martacking them,
as they came without circlips.
I was quite sure my Longs already had some interlocking device to avoid the axles shifting forth and back.
We did a very scientific experiment to check it out by fitting the axles to the CVs and playing tug of war in the parking lot.

I believed my RT axles sport a snap ring (EDITED) but no I was wrong.

cause there are no four wheel drives or places to drive them……

This is true in some way.
You are not allowed to drive off road,but in the end it comes to the region and officers...some allow,some not.
Recently a well known area by the Po river has been closed after the usual yahoos ruined the ground several times and left damages behind.
Mass 4x4 tourism is not appreciated,especially if common sense is ignored...

Michele wrote: I believe my RT axles sport a snap ring which goes in the Long,and this fits inside the race (CLICK).

No need of the circlip so.

I will confirm later.

There was definitely no snap ring on the rovertracks axles or in the longfield, that is why I was surprised when they locked in securely and wouldn't come apart. Be interested to hear Keith's answer. When I got my longfields, there were some c-clips inside the box - they seemed like they were just bent wire though, not spring steel.

'nuff said!

I will let you know,I'm curious.

P.S.
See my edited post above

Michele wrote:...The inner axles...we chatted a lot about the need of martacking them, as they came without circlips...

I have the 80 series longfields, which are different.

My understanding is that you don't need a martack with 30 spline Longfield Chrome Moly/300M cv's. The bore in the star is longer and has a groove for the snap ring.

Bush65 wrote:

Michele wrote:...The inner axles...we chatted a lot about the need of martacking them, as they came without circlips...

I have the 80 series longfields, which are different.

My understanding is that you don't need a martack with 30 spline Longfield Chrome Moly/300M cv's. The bore in the star is longer and has a groove for the snap ring.

There is a snap ring groove in the middle of the star in both my 30 spline longfields (Mk 1) and Michele's (Mark 2). But while I had snap rings supplied with the kit, Michele did not.

I thought that the axles would need to be martacked, but when we fitted the axles into the CVs (no snap rings anywhere) the axle was held in as tightly as in a normal rover CV.

Just asked Keith,and he told me it's sort of a debate over there as to whether or not the clips on the
axles are needed if there is sufficient means to keep the axle from
going to far into the CV... It this case we do so there is no circlip...

Boh?

Michele wrote:Just asked Keith,and he told me it's sort of a debate over there as to whether or not the clips on the
axles are needed if there is sufficient means to keep the axle from
going to far into the CV... It this case we do so there is no circlip...

Boh?

But we are talking about what stops the axle from coming out of the CV, not what stops it going in too far.

During the manufactuing of the shafts we make certain that the splines are stopped at a specific dimension creating a shoulder... This prevents the shaft from going in to far..

Good work guys!!!

Keith

revor wrote:During the manufactuing of the shafts we make certain that the splines are stopped at a specific dimension creating a shoulder... This prevents the shaft from going in to far..

Good work guys!!!

Keith

The Problem they are going to have with no Circlip is if the axle does not sit up against the cross pin in the diff centre then its going to come out of the CV which will more than likely strip the splines off the end of the axle or out of the star.

Ben you say the axle was tight in the CV but as soon as the splines get a little wear in them (Which they will) the axle will start floating.

nice work Ben and Michele !

Looks familiar

RUFF wrote:
Ben you say the axle was tight in the CV but as soon as the splines get a little wear in them (Which they will) the axle will start floating.

I agree Tony, and was all for martacking them. If the axles start floating, they only have about 10mm to move before they hit the cross shaft. It is not a big job to pull the axles out and martack them later.

RUFF wrote:as soon as the splines get a little wear in them (Which they will) the axle will start floating.

Aaaaah!Let me enjoy them a bit at least!!!!


Nadim,did you martack your axles ?

It is not a big job to pull the axles out and martack them later
Nice excuse for you to come back again,and maybe have a ride in the Alfa Daytona

Define Martrack?

Tack weld?

No I didn't, didn't needed to...

DiscoDino wrote:Define Martrack?

Mar probably come from the originators name and tack comes from tack weld. A small tack weld on the axle spline that will prevent the axle from moving further into the cv.

The stress raising factor can be improved by extending the length of the splines beyond the end of the cv star (so the stress raiser from the spline runout does not coincide with the stress raiser from the cv star fitted to the axle). But then there is nothing to stop the axle from moving into the star (and out of the diff side gear). A small tack weld on the splines (martack) will prevent this.

If the martack is small and done properly, the axle strength will not be compromised. If not done properly it will affect the axle fatigue strength.

IMHO Longfield introduced a good feature by putting the snap ring groove in the star. This way the snap ring prevents axle movement in both directions. So you can have longer splines for better stress raising factor and no need for a martack which would be at the critical position for fatigue. The groove is well away from the critical position for fatigue stress so does not affect the fatigue.

When cv's were breaking often, eliminating the snap ring by having a suitable length axle and a martack, made changing cv's on the trail easier. But now the failure is moved away from the cv, I would use a snap ring.

Hey Ben!

Simon here from the old Black Stump forum ... long time mate. Listen, when the hell are you returning to Australia - I could still use your help with lets see here ...

# - Series disc brake conversion

# - Your custom leaf springs set up!

I've only been able to get back to the restoration - still not finished - sad eh? Work work and more work and being overseas the last couple of years has left the 2a 88" in the garage. I've just had a chance to look over our old chat on your custom leaf springs and am currently hunting down some good condition SWB Rovers like you suggested. What are your suggestions with regards to a Series Disc Brake conversion by the way? Since I have rolling chassis, now would be the time ... any chance you could tell me what I need?

My e-mail is psi_fan@yahoo.com ... hope your enjoying Europe still.

Best regards, Simon.

Budeye wrote:Hey Ben!

Simon here from the old Black Stump forum ... long time mate. Listen, when the hell are you returning to Australia - I could still use your help with lets see here ...

# - Series disc brake conversion

# - Your custom leaf springs set up!

I've only been able to get back to the restoration - still not finished - sad eh? Work work and more work and being overseas the last couple of years has left the 2a 88" in the garage. I've just had a chance to look over our old chat on your custom leaf springs and am currently hunting down some good condition SWB Rovers like you suggested. What are your suggestions with regards to a Series Disc Brake conversion by the way? Since I have rolling chassis, now would be the time ... any chance you could tell me what I need?

My e-mail is psi_fan@yahoo.com ... hope your enjoying Europe still.

Best regards, Simon.

Hi Simon, yep still enjoying europe, but don't get to play with landies as often. For the disc conversion there is lots of good info on http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php and on here of course. Just do a search on both.