Outer Limits 4x4 Board

has any1 thought bout d possiblity of fittin a blower of say the 1.6 corolla motor an boltin it up to a ferozas hde engine? i mean itl bolt up fine wif minor mods but it should fine yet deliver more botom end on low boost for things like low geard 4wdin.
wat u think?
n would d botom end be able to handle dis extra power wifout shitin itself? plus u wouldnt hav to push ur motor so hard to make it move either.
giv me ur thoughts or known knowledge bout dis issue.

wen u say 1.6 roller motor
which one like the name of the motor
i would try and get an efi roller motor and save some hassle
and im not 100%sure on this
but you could gear it so the blower hits boost lower in the rev range
but then it would be working pretty hard in the higher rev range

im think mud4B used a blower off a subaru and put it on a 1.6 zuk motor and he geared it highly running high boost (and i think it died) but it might be able to be used on lower boost and run well

The blown corolla 1.6l is a '4AGZE'.. which uses the SC12 supercharger.

This would be an awesome swap into a Feroza, as these engines love modification and most people end up swapping the supercharger for a turbo, due to the ceramic pistons, lower compression and strong internals.
You may have a problem fitting it up to the Roza running gear though.

I think the cost in modifying your motor to fit the SC12 would be too large for the small increase to be gained.
You could almost use a turbo instead and buy parts to suit your specific requirements.
A guy on here is in the process of turboing his Feroza... he also has an MR2 with a 4AGZE which is turbocharged (cant remember his name)... maybe talk to him as he knows about both of these.

Am currently supercharging an F300 HD series engine. Using an SC14 blower ( yep its too big - but not expensive ). There's a very early pic on WARFS.ORG and have submitted many pics etc to the moderator for a future article

Am interested in more bottom end torque which is where a blower beats a turbo instalation. The engine is having a complete rebuild / tune with as many good bits as I can find / afford. This is a "spare" engine so time is not a consideration.

Give me a yell if your seriously interested.....

Sounds good man... The SC14 will really cram the air in there! You wont need to overwork it anyway
Pics please

iam interested as i tow a 14ft boat and my tool tralior i have had many talks with poeple about s12 charger but i was told not to get rid of my black box and the short piece of duct as this helps the performance so to build this in pipe and install s12 /s14 is big $$$$$ to gain little hp but they are electric clutch on them so you can use anly when you need ,please show some pics as u go . thans

This is not a rush project so don't expect it completed by tomorrow...
Am sending pics/details to WARFS.ORG a few at a time ( as I get things done ) so perhaps if you ask Jonathon Morrison ( the WARFS webmaster ) nicely he may have the time to post some.

Nice work on the brackets- I take it you're not having aircon? Are you making it all yourself?

What's the donor engine out of too- the rocker cover is different to the normal Feroza one?

No its a non aircon model but uses an aircon condenser as the heat exchanger for the air to water intercooler system. The aircon bracket forms part of the blower mount and was a easy place to start. As the engine has Wildcat 4 into 1 extractors I had to juggle things so as to make it all fit. It would be possible to fit the blower to an aircon equiped vehicle with a redesign of the botton mount.

An SC12 blower being smaller would also help - but I didn't have one at hand so its the bigger SC14 running at 0.6 crank speed. Its probably going to be the wrong drive ration but can be easily changed later.

The rocker cover is a HD unit - with a bit of work done on it ( yes its vanity but we all have faults ) - I think it looks good.

All the work is being done by me as its a "spare" engine and so theres no deadline. Engine is mildly modified - bored, cam, balence, pollished rods and crank, forged pistons, nmenonic valves, flowed benched, ported and pollished, machined chambers - lots of time and minimum money.

Sounds like it will be a powerful engine when you've finished. Are you a mechanic and are you going to be programming the Motec yourself?

What gearbox are you planning on running behind it?

That looks very nice and professional.

What pistons will you be running on it?

As for gearbox / Transfer will initially use stockie but in the longer term its open season as long as "rock hoppers" are available. ( suggestions appreciated ).

This is the beginning of a larger project that will eventually deal with the whole power train /brakes/traction control - but its a part time scheme so no timeline

As for injection, I am using a different approach of leaving the stock system alone and fitting an auxillary MAP ecu to add the extra fuel via a pair of extra injectors after the intercooler. This way I don't have as much tuning to do and its going to be clean at normal loads ( got to keep the green police happy ). Have done this before and its an effective solution.

Ignition is via a programmable ecu and a fixed hall effect pickup in te remains of the disy. All timing is programmable back from a 60 Deg BTDC reference point.

Pistons will be ARIES forgings custon machined, have had the discussions but not got them yet ($$$).

What computer are you going to use to control the ignition timing? Something like the Deltamax from Delta Digital?

No - its a custom based on an ATMEL ATMEGA 8535 chip, its also tasked with idle speed control and interface to the existing ECU for things like throttle position.

I am using a GMC throttle body (+/- 80mm ) which uses a stepper motor idle speed control and variable resistance throtle position sender. The Daihatsu throttle body uses switches and the #$%^ thermal idle adjuster so some control and adaption needs to be done.

THe electronic ISC also will be tied into the winch control so the engine goes to about 2000 RPM when winching - this will give me around 120 Amps from the BOSCH altenator ( 60 amps at idle ).

Are you designing the ignition controller yourself?

Depends on when Silicon Chip release their MAP controlled ignition project - if it takes too long then yes but if its availalble (and does the job ) them I am not going to reinvent the wheel.

Their standard timing control system ( non forced induction ) works well but is too limited for a boosted engine - have used a few .

This still requires another micro to control the ISC system and interface to the stock ECU - but in reality the Silicon Cip projects usually are well designed and executed so a composite system will probably be the result.

When is that kit supposed to be done and have you got any more info on it? I've been looking at doing something like that for ages, but don't want to invest $330 in the Deltamax.

The other kit you mentioned I take it was the one with the numeric keypad to program it, that was sold at Jaycar?

The ICS shouldn't be too hard to do (well not comapred to the ignition timing control anyway!)

I think the cost in modifying your motor to fit the SC12 would be too large for the small increase to be gained.
You could almost use a turbo instead and buy parts to suit your specific requirements.
.....c i did think bout the turbo setup but i need the power down low mainly for offroad use, but a bit for road use too.
c im sik of usin more clutch 2 rev hard for climbin rock hills an d such. botom end deilvery from a blower would b more appropriate den a turbo which wil deliver power higher up in d rev range.

But you can get a turbo to come on at the same rpm or even earlier than a blower will come onto boost... It all depends on the bits you choose, like i said.

The turbo can spool up at a low rpm if chosen correctly... but will not be that useful for the higher rev range..

My rocky starts spooling up at around 1400rpm (maybe lower)... I could easily change the turbo so it spooled up at 2.5-3k rpm.... But that is not the range where i want my power to be at.

A good blower can be ON BOOST at idle which will give you truck loads of toque at very low (<1000) revs

hi, i wanted to put my old sc12 onto the feroza, but decided not to for the effort involved moving/removing stuff etc for it to fit. i am however a BIG fan of the 4agze engine, and would like to maybe one day put a complete smallport MAP version 4agze into the feroza.

but for now i am in the process of turbo'ing it instead. i am useing my spare t25, which is a little larger than i wanted. the subaru gt forestor turbo would be a great match for the feroza engine, it would spool up nearly straight off idle, i might still try to find myself one of them at a later date. i'll see how the t25 goes 1st.

i am hopeing to bolt it all up in a week and 1/2 when i have my week off work (gotta love 2 and 1 roster) . i've finaly found the w2a intercooler i have been searching for (which should arrive next week). i still need to finish making my dump pipe and new exhaust system.
(there are some pics in the link in my siggy).


MightyMouse, very horny looking set-up.
one thing i might add though, with the heat exchanger you are useing. i used a a/c condensor on my mr2 as one for a while, sure it worked ok, but not to the w2a core's potential. i have since ghetto modified a vn aluminium radiator to use as my heat exchanger. i picked up nearly 50k's extra in fuel economy on the hi-way because it cooled the charge air so much better. something to think about later maybe, a aluminium radiator will work much better than a a/c condensor.

HotFourOk wrote: A guy on here is in the process of turboing his Feroza... he also has an MR2 with a 4AGZE which is turbocharged (cant remember his name)... maybe talk to him as he knows about both of these.

*EDIT* Tufferoza is the guy i was reffering to... lol
Welcome to the party

Tufferoza

Are you going to run an aftermarket computer on the feroza once the turbo is bolted up

For sheer "off idle" torque you can't beat a supercharger - its certainly possible to get a turbo to work at low RPM by selecting the right size A/R
exhaust housing but its not going to be great at higher RPM.

With a SC14 blower it has heaps of spare capacity so its more a matter of keeping the boost down.

As for the comments about the aircon core for the air to water IC - can't argue with actual experience so I will keep an eye on the charge temperature. Its just there's not much room up front and the AC condensor just slots in.....

The ignition controller is different from the one currently sold at Jaycar - it was mentioned as a future release in the Silicon chip auto performace magazine ( can't remember its actual name ). With MAP control of timing it seems a perfect solution if it ever gets released.

rocknferoza wrote:Tufferoza

Are you going to run an aftermarket computer on the feroza once the turbo is bolted up

no, not at first. i'm going to try a few little tricks i've learnt over the years i've been playing with boost. if they work, great. if not then i'll venture further.

tufferoza wrote:

rocknferoza wrote:Tufferoza

Are you going to run an aftermarket computer on the feroza once the turbo is bolted up

no, not at first. i'm going to try a few little tricks i've learnt over the years i've been playing with boost. if they work, great. if not then i'll venture further.

What about the ignition timing curve?

JEEZ, these tech for turbo and superchargers are sure complicated

murcod wrote:

tufferoza wrote:

rocknferoza wrote:Tufferoza

Are you going to run an aftermarket computer on the feroza once the turbo is bolted up

no, not at first. i'm going to try a few little tricks i've learnt over the years i've been playing with boost. if they work, great. if not then i'll venture further.

What about the ignition timing curve?

i'll post what i try and how it works when the time comes.

just an update on my turbo project. i've been driving it around the last 3 days with 'boost'.. not a great deal by anymeans but enough to notice a differnce to it's power delivery (eg. has more go). first couple days i had not modified the actuator rod (which is set to open at 7psi) so i was only easing the boost in when i drove it to around 4psi, when i go a little over 5psi the ECU would cut out. haha
today modified the actuator rod so it opens with less boost, only set it to 3psi for safety peice of mind at the moment. i havnt added an extra fuel injector yet as i intend, all i've done it retard the timing a little (well i think i have as the timing mark doesnt line up like in the manual).
i need to find or buy a wideband air/fuel mixture meter so i can see if and how much it is leaning out before i wind the boost back up. plus sort out the extra injector i want to add.

here's some pics of the stuff i've done so far here
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657917/4

going fishing tomorow out on the beaches, so hopefully with the revs etc that may be needed in the soft sand and up the dunes ect i dont blow it up...

How long has all that gear taken to make!? Nice work with the intercooler- looks like a factory fit.

I see the Feroza is in many pieces too- front diff and gearbox out.