Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I know we can all break diffs and axles but how are we doing it?

Has anyone broken an axle or diff in Hi range?

Is an auto easier on the driveline than a manual?

What about U joints and tailshafts has anyone broken them?

I have broken 2 10-spline series axles while driving downhill in high range. I'm sure though that the break actually occured offroad in low range, but the actual failure occured whilst engine braking downhill on road.

EDIT - the full list:

My father or I broke 3x 10-spline rears and one 4.7 pinion in his 88" IIA, on 32's.

I broke 2x 10-spline rears in my LWB IIA on 32's. Then I broke one non-genuine 24 spline salisbury rear, and one front 4.7:1 ring and pinion, also on 32's.

Maxi-drive axled and lockered salisbury rear, and Stage 1 V8 font (4.7:1) have since been holding up fine on 33's.

I never managed to break anything in my 3.9D 110 with stock drivetrain on 32's or 33's, even though it has plenty of low doen torque. I have seen plenty of ISUZU diesel stage 1's break stock front diffs though.

I've broken a diff and an axle. Low range, lots of tyre spin and lots of boot on a steep hill climbing into a step.
I was playing on a hill in the Lake Lyall area (Lithgow NSW) that is used for driver training with the military Unimogs. I hadn't been able to pop the front of the Disco up a step the last time I tried it, but this time I couldn't get the rear up. A little bit of boot and things went badly. Check the video clip! (1.27mb).
Slunnie bows out!

Just lining up for my last run of the day!

Almost ready to go.

and Simba in the blast off position (just before the axle let go).


I broke the diff

and the axle.

Full pics and video at:
Broken rear D2 diff

I make sure that I air down these days.

Mate thats a clean break in your diff there. The two times i have blown my rear diff it was messy as with all centre gears broken or chipped. My breakages have occured due to backlash in my four speed. I THINK! Both times i have been off the loud pedal after giving it a big bootful when she blows. Its as if with the backlash makes it take that extra second to catch up forcing all the pressure to happen at once a second after i back off.

Im not really mechanically so i hope this makes sence. Cant wait to get some more strength!

I have heard of ppl blowing out rear diff in high range just from booting it from a set of lights.....


I did this last weekend..... got the front up in the air and landed and both front wheels stopped suddenly..... the rest is history well a huge pita anyway..... TuffRR busted a hilux cv on the same track D110V8D busted all his engine and gbox mounts and Walkers clutch packed up.... we didn’t get to bed until 4am the next day......








all i can say is upgrade!!!

Mick

I would have thought the Hilux CV was an upgrade, I don't know what the problem people have with Rangie CVs, I've never seen one break, Toyotas and Nissans yes, but never a Rangie. Diff centres, thats another story.

mangie wrote:I would have thought the Hilux CV was an upgrade, I don't know what the problem people have with Rangie CVs, I've never seen one break, Toyotas and Nissans yes, but never a Rangie. Diff centres, thats another story.

Rangie cvs break pretty good

The toyota standard stuff (but not 80/100) may not be much of an upgrade, but buying longfielded or longfield CV's are.

mangie wrote:I would have thought the Hilux CV was an upgrade, I don't know what the problem people have with Rangie CVs, I've never seen one break, Toyotas and Nissans yes, but never a Rangie. Diff centres, thats another story.

I'm agree. The old 2 piece Rangie CV's are great IMO.

Mickrangie, you did a bloody good job on that diff center

Trav

thanks! I break good!! Tossing up what to upgrade it with now.... arb, Jacmac or maxi.......

I also run the 2 pcs cv... good fuse and easy to change

I've seen stub axels go before CV's, now that's a better fuse

mickrangie wrote:thanks! I break good!! Tossing up what to upgrade it with now.... arb, Jacmac or maxi.......

I also run the 2 pcs cv... good fuse and easy to change

Ooh ya know that feeling!

Are our axles really this bad?

Almost makes me proud of my set of Dana 30/35.

Almost makes me proud of my set of Dana 30

yep, never had a problem twenty years ago with my front D30 in my old CJ with 31's.....

Apart from a stripped rear drive member spline on a 1963 88 inch in the last 30 years with 3 109 inch 2 88 inch 2 Classic Range Rovers I havent broken any drive line components. Stuffed a few Toyotas and damaged a few Nissans though.

zuffen wrote:I know we can all break diffs and axles but how are we doing it?

Has anyone broken an axle or diff in Hi range?

Is an auto easier on the driveline than a manual?

What about U joints and tailshafts has anyone broken them?

Hi Zuffen. Look like most of us have tales of woe when it comes to Rangie axles. Personally, I have only blown 1 centre .. way back in the early days of Rangie ownership (vehicle number 2) .. flat to the floor up a very nasty hill, pregnant wife in the passenger seat in lots off pain and I was trying to get her up the hill and then to hospotal as something was definately wrong ... up a rock ledge, got airborne ... foot still flat to the floor ... landed and yes, you guessed it the diff gears came out the back of the housing .... in bits.

Anyway, learnt a lot since those days. Years later managed to break a few fine spline axles on my old winch comp rangie but that had 36 inch tyres and f & R air lockers although the axles only ever broke when I was reversing after being stuck on a hill or similar .. the moment I selevcted reverse it would braek an axle (either front or rear). SOlution was maxidrive axles .. never did it again .. also learnt never to select reverse with locker engaged as I managed to blo w couple of the later smaller CV's that way.

Never broken one in high range though.

To answer your other question re the auto and is it easier on the axles, I personally believe it is. I put a ZF in my old comp Rangie and I believe it was far easier on the driveline .... can't really give you a back to back comparison but my gut feel is that the auto was definately easier on the axles. .. and helped the car climb just about anything it was pointed at.

Never broken a uni joint or tailshaft ... tailshafts usually only fail when they are under extreme power strain (eg lots of horses under the bonnet) OR when they have been damaged like if they are bent from hitting or sitting on a rock.

Cheers
Simo

Nearly all of these type of failures are fatigue failures.

Normally after a number of stress cycles, a crack starts at a small imperfection in the region of a stress raiser. The crack grows as the number of stress cycles increase, until the cracked component can't carry the load and it breaks.

The number of stress cycles for a crack to start, or from crack initiation to final breakage depends on the magnitude and nature (eg fully reversed etc) of the stress. Low stress = large number of cycles, high stress = low number of cycles - they are all cumulative (Miner's rule is used in engineering calculations to determine cumulative damage from the loading spectrum).

What you were doing when the break occurs is not particularly relevent, because if a crack has started, the strength is much reduced. Except that the crack propogates quickly under high loads, and cracked parts are not suitable for absorbing impact loads.

A small broken piece can't fit between meshing gears, so catastrophic failure results - as shown is some of those pics.

Thanks guys.

I have a Maxidrive rear and open front with Maxi axles.

Tyres are 33x12.5 at the moment but they could go up to 35's.

I broke a short front axle once, but that was caused when I ripped the whole swivel off the end of the housing. I guess that one doesn't count.

I also run a Torquflite behind a 4.0 litre Lexus engine which is certainly feeding the driveline a lot more mumbo.

Later this year the engine is being upgraded and should be putting out 550lbft of torque.

My main use of the vehicle is road transport so I'm concerned as to if it will hold together on the street. It will also have a few 1/4 mile passes to see what it can do.

With the torque it has it will be devastating in low range.

Zuffen, I don't think you have to worry about breaking things on-road. A mate in the brisbane rover club has a bush-rangie with a 5.2L? (bored & stroked rover V8), and another mate has a very heavy disco with a 3.9. Both have MD lockers and axles front and rear and are on 35's. These vehicles only ever break the occasional 110 CV, or even much less often a rear ring and pinion - but only ever offroad in low range.

You weakest link is the 2 pin open diff - this would worry me.

Slunnie, was that a stock axle and diff you broke?

cheers, Serg

Gday Serg, the axles and diff were stock. I was thankful that it didn't snap on the other side of the flange though with the D2 being a semifloat setup.

I've done 3 axels in a day before, two while winching with no load

Broken 2 Rangie rear tailshafts

Broke a rear axel on the road (350 chev, 35's, welded diff, bootfull of throttle)

Never broken a Rangie CV

Never bent a rangie trailing arm

Never broken a rangie diff centre

Maggot4x4 wrote:
Never broken a Rangie CV

Never bent a rangie trailing arm

Never broken a rangie diff centre

yr just not trying hard enough!!!

I've only broken a rear tailshaft in my Fender.



And that was more my fault than it being weak.

I ran 37s for a good while ad this was all I broke. All axels, CVs and centres are stock. No lockers, just factory ETC.


Micka

you broke good!! nice work!!

The stuff that we seem to break mainly are rear tailshafts at the uni's and rear lower suspension links. A occasional stocker rear diffs and plenty of 10 spliners for the fella that runs them. Lockers and Maxi's never really break, though one of us has twisted a maxi axle (lots of weight, 35" Simex and 200kw chip upgrade)

I heard of ppl twisting maxi axles but never breaking them...... good thing i guess

mickrangie wrote:I heard of ppl twisting maxi axles but never breaking them...... good thing i guess

I think RUFF has broken a maxi axel.

They seem to prefer JacMac axels to maxi drive.


Micka

Micka wrote:

mickrangie wrote:I heard of ppl twisting maxi axles but never breaking them...... good thing i guess

I think RUFF has broken a maxi axel.

They seem to prefer JacMac axels to maxi drive.


Micka

The Maxi-axle is twisted, not broken, and RUFF thinks it came from Ralph's hybrid.

RUFF wrote:
I have a twisted Maxi Axle at work...

I also have some twisted 4340 axles

Bush65 wrote:You weakest link is the 2 pin open diff - this would worry me.

I agree with John, it would be a good idea to fit a MD or JM HD centre as a minimum. I have seen a few of these fail, either through too much torque, or because the pin rotates, wearing the circlip, and eventually tries to fall out with catastrophic results...

rick130 wrote:

Almost makes me proud of my set of Dana 30

yep, never had a problem twenty years ago with my front D30 in my old CJ with 31's.....

Uhm, maybe that was a bad example - I'm on my 4th U-joint/shaft right now, and I'm only rocking 30's!

(Let's not talk about the rearend)