Outer Limits 4x4 Board

After losing the clutch last weekend, I found that the spring in the master cylinder had busted and I thought this was my problem. Got a new spring and new seals for master & slave and went to put it all back today.

When installing the slave cylinder I found that the arm which connects to the thrust bearing was floppy and I could easily move it back and forth. I am now thinking that I might have destroyed the thrust bearing. I put it back together and bled the clutch anyway but have not got any peddle pressure.

What have people done to replace the clutch at home? Removed the motor or the gearbox. If I had a hoist I would say the g'box for sure but I know what a PITA removing the g'box is at home. Getting it out is not too bad, getting it back in just about broke my back last time (and the tools did not like the way I threw them in frustration ).

Any suggestions or helpful tips?

In my land rovers I always remove the box, as the motor is a bit of a tight fit without dismantling the front of the car. I put the front up on ramps to give me some room to work and support the box with a trolley jack so I don't break my back. If you have a BW or LT230 T-case, life is easier when you split the t-case from the box first, the box is so light after the t-case is gone!!!. If you have an LT95 I would probably pull the engine out!!!

Yep, I have the LT95.

I have been thinking about it for the last couple of hours and I agree, I think I will remove the motor. It might take an extra half day of work but it will be so much easier. I also have a forklift to lift out the motor.

I only had the motor and g'box out at christmas time. I put the g'box back in before the motor and even then it was a horrible job so trying to get it in with the motor already there would be twice as bad.

I WANT A HOIST!

With LT95 Pull the motor, also keep in mind you have to pressure bleed the clutch to get it right and they are a real CRUNT of a thing to get right first go!

hey walker i had the same problem recentley changing my clutch master and slave seals,the arm that connects to the slave cylinder would move back and fourth. I tried bleeding for about an hour with an assistant with no luck.I then used one of those one man bleeding device safter about 5 min i had peddle back.
hope this helps!

auto's looking better all the time adam

when i had my first rangie i had clutch troubles and thought it would have been easier to remove the gearbox as well because i have owned a few landrovers and landcruisers when i did the clutches in them i found this was the best way for me to do them at home but when i did the rangie i was told it was better to remove the engine to do the clutch so i used a chain block hanging from the shed roof and found it was no trouble and didnt take that long it was good practise as i havnt had a rangie for a couple of years now and have just bought another one so will be looking for advice from other rangie owners when i do some more mods to it. cheers rod

I tried a bit of radiator heater hose pipe attached to the top of the clutch master cylinder with a hose clamp, about 3" long, which allowed you to fill the fluid to above the level of the pipe crossing over the back of the engine on the firewall, which is the cause of all the airlock problems. This made the clutch very easy to bleed without buying a pressure bleeder!
JC

I tried a bit of radiator heater hose pipe attached to the top of the clutch master cylinder with a hose clamp, about 3" long, which allowed you to fill the fluid to above the level of the pipe crossing over the back of the engine on the firewall, which is the cause of all the airlock problems. This made the clutch very easy to bleed without buying a pressure bleeder!
JC

ISUZUROVER wrote:In my land rovers I always remove the box, as the motor is a bit of a tight fit without dismantling the front of the car. I put the front up on ramps to give me some room to work and support the box with a trolley jack so I don't break my back. If you have a BW or LT230 T-case, life is easier when you split the t-case from the box first, the box is so light after the t-case is gone!!!. If you have an LT95 I would probably pull the engine out!!!

I find it easier to pull them out in one piece (Lt230 or LT230t) and split them on the ground, its the getting back in in one piece that you want to avoid

cloughy wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:In my land rovers I always remove the box, as the motor is a bit of a tight fit without dismantling the front of the car. I put the front up on ramps to give me some room to work and support the box with a trolley jack so I don't break my back. If you have a BW or LT230 T-case, life is easier when you split the t-case from the box first, the box is so light after the t-case is gone!!!. If you have an LT95 I would probably pull the engine out!!!

I find it easier to pull them out in one piece (Lt230 or LT230t) and split them on the ground, its the getting back in in one piece that you want to avoid

That is true - in the old days when I had to lift the box out it was easier to split first. Now I can drop it out from underneath it is easier to do it in one piece. Re-aligning the box-tcase on re-assembly is a real ba$tard if not split.

mark4130 wrote:hey walker i had the same problem recentley changing my clutch master and slave seals,the arm that connects to the slave cylinder would move back and fourth. I tried bleeding for about an hour with an assistant with no luck.I then used one of those one man bleeding device safter about 5 min i had peddle back.
hope this helps!

Ok thanks everyone.

mark, are you saying that the arm which which pulls back the thrust bearing was loose for you and you could puch this arm right back or pull it right forwards? I would have thought that you should not be able to push this arm back as it should be pushing on the thrust bearing. This is the reason I thought the fault was inside the clutch rather than just not bled properly.
I don't want to go pulling the motor if it is just a matter of bleeding problems.

There will always be some movement in the clutch fork, its just a matter of whether its excessive or not, some thrust bearings are prone to sliding back on the sleeve they are fitted to, and the fill method JC mentioned would work, i use my compressure with reg set very low and an ould cap to pressure bleed

yeh mate the arm moved aprox 60mm back and fourth,i thought the same as you the motor's coming out!Im glad i ended up trying the one man bleeding system,saved me hours of work!

good luck
mark

Cool. You have given me some hope.

When you say "one man bleeder" is that just the hose with a one way valve at the end. I have one which has a ball bearing in the end of it but I have always found the 2 man job a lot easier (with brakes anyway).

I will definately try the radiator in the filler trick and hope that works.

I always do it with 2 people because i like to see the fluid flow myself, like i said they ARE a crunt of a setup, so are the brakes for that matter, if i was you i'd make 100% sure there bleed correctly before removing the box, trust iv'e done it before , it involves lots of yelling and screaming when you work out you didn't need to get to the clutch!generally its only ever the master or the slave, occassionally the thrust bearing (can happen) or the pressure plate collapses (very rare and you've probably cooked it so you should know) if the plate is stuffed the clutch will be like the peddle is depressed and you want go nowhere

speaking of which were the symptoms
1. the clutch would not disengage as in constant drive or

2. the clutch continually slipped

Clutch would not disengage.

The clutch plate itself is not stuffed as there was no burning clutch smell and it drives fine ie. no slipping.

When I pulled the master cylinder apart I found that the return spring had snapped in 2 which I assumed was the entire problem. Hopefully that is all it is and i just have to bleed it properly.

The thrust bearing and clutch is only 3 month old, I replaced them when i put the new motor in, in January. The Rangie only gets used a couple of times a month but that is very hard use. When it failed I had already towed one other Rangie up Ellis Tk and was almost finished towing the 2nd one up (both had lost front drives) so everything was really getting a pounding.

Chances are your not bleeding it correctly then, if all is new i doubt it would fail, good chance to put a seal kit through the slave aswell.

Done. Forst thing I did was seals in master and slave.

Just host do you get that clip onto the clutch fork. The one that was on it was broken and I tried for ages to get the new one on and ended up giving up and not using it.

cloughy wrote:With LT95 Pull the motor, also keep in mind you have to pressure bleed the clutch to get it right and they are a real CRUNT of a thing to get right first go!

It is mutch easier to move the engine forward to do the clutch than pull the g/box out, and yes they are a complete bastard to bleed - took me 2 days to do mine 11 years ago.

Just host do you get that clip onto the clutch fork. The one that was on it was broken and I tried for ages to get the new one on and ended up giving up and not using it.

As far as i can remember, there is no trick, beyond the power of swearing your ass off - or removing the gearbox

A huge thankyou to everyone who has helped on this thread. I tried bleeding it again today with a hose stuck into the top of the reservoir to get the level up higher. It still took a bit of work but the clutch is now working fine.

It feels so good not having to remove the motor!

so why did it fail??
Was it the angle it was on?
Sucked in air?

Stupid clutch!!!

No it failed because the spring in the master cylinder snapped. It's just that after I repaired all that and it still wouldn't work I thought that it was something more serious........but it was just my shoddy bleeding.

Good news. And after all that, hurry up and put the ZF in!