Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Pretty happy with my Shorty on gas but it really struggles on 33's especially with towing my boat. Been into turbos for a good many years and allways had pretty quick street cars. Fourbies are unreal but having a little more grunt would be nice.
Here is my goal and my plan

what i have
90' Swb on LPG
rebuilt auto with a few better bits (torrington rollers) big trans cooler
new cylinder head with genuine gasket
2inch OME
33's
265 000kms on the engine

Now i dont want to go silly so no big boost, 4psi max as i dont want to stress the trans or the slug. The turbo im after is a 13B rotatry (standard) as these flow huge amounts of air, Lag is of no real concern as i want my torque increase at 2200rmp onwards. For once in my life I have a car which i can use the standard header to mount the turbo, this is gonna save me some dosh too. I have a realistic 170mm of space between the rail and block so a clever adapter will be fabbed up, MIG is going to be fine as its a decent distance from the exhaust ports. This will be a VERY Low mount turbo. Picked up a supra intercooler off ebay for 100bucks, these work fine for anything up to 170kw at the wheels, im aiming for 130, this cooler fits with minimal fuss if anyone is interested.
Im doing all the fab work intercooler pipes etc with mild steel.
I have spoken to ONTRACK4x4 who will be looking after a LPG throttle body conversion, a suitable dizzy and ignition only computer. I do have an old Motec but I think there is better new stuff out there.
Exhaust wise will be running with what i have (std) for a while. But really looking forward to getting some power and econnomy figures up.
I aim to have this happening for under 2K Possibly making kits.
Will keep posting my progress
cheers Brunsy

sounds like a great idea, specially using the rx7 turbos and other parts that are cheap to obtain.

how much are you thinking a kit would cost

Brunsy wrote:Now i dont want to go silly so no big boost, 4psi max as i dont want to stress the trans or the slug.

you could safely go to 9psi without straining much. some are running 20

yeah i agree with bruce the tb42 are quite strong alot of guys run 10 - 15 psi into them. 4psi aint going to do much and the gearbox and motor will hold up fine.

There was a bloke on here who did it a while ago on his shorty he used parts off a skyline and a few other bits and pieces achieve about 170kw at the rear wheels quite easy with about 10psi.

cheers bogged,
I would love to do this but coz everything is going to be on the cheep, ie average intercooler, standard exhaust, small pipework and less than ideal turbo, i want to be conservative.
Around town im happy with the power in reality i only want somthing for those long hills (the spur) between 2200-3500rpm and from the advice of poeple on here pacemakers and sports system does very little for power for a fair amount of $$. Anyway I told the missus the aircon will work better on the way to eildon if she lets me turbo it LOL.

PS airpowersystems have centrifugal kit for the GU4.5 running 4psi making 130rwkw but at nearly 7K not worth it.

Will compression need to be lessened for such low boost or can you get away with standard comp?

Make sure you get pics of your turbo manifold. I was under the impression that the easiest way was to use a manifold for a turbo diesel as they are the same?

Brunsy wrote: Lag is of no real concern as i want my torque increase at 2200rmp onwards.

why do you want your power so high in the revs?

From the various turbos i have played with, T3's and small T4's will generate usefull boost at around 2000rpm on 3 Litre engines. The TB being large capacity hence moving a fair amount of air needs somthing big so as to not impede airflow up in the revs. Big Diesel T4's are cheep as are RX-7 turbos and most are oilcooled only, less mucking around. I personally dont like low rpm shove in the back stuff anymore anyway. This is sort of just a fun project for me anyways as im studying fluid mechanics at uni as part of my engineering degree, i just want to see if i have learnt anything usefull (probly not).
The TD-42 turbo header WILL fit my head but havent been able to find one, and i really am on a budget so will make do with the standard Petrol one. If this conversion produces even moderate gains im sure plenty of OL slug drivers will be interested.
Like many of my naturally aspirated skylines and my GQ 3.0L once turboed gave noticalbe gain in economy as you are not ringing its neck to go places. As for compression someone asked the TB run a very low static comp anyway, and blokes have run up to 15psi on standard hi kay engines. I would not even consider doing this upgrade with out some form of charge cooling, its power return justifies the effort.
cheers Brunsy

Hey Brunsy.

I'd like to follow every turbo move you make. I have a 1990 TB42 Maverick running petrol only, and need a bit more power.

Assuming you are going to a 'blow-through' configuration, how are you planning to seal the carby? Or are you planning something different?

Have you thought about a small supercharger?

Cheers
Dave

I'm interested to see where you tee into for the oil and water feeds for the turbo

I have just recently done this on a tb42e.
Used an rx7 series 5 turbo. I run 8psi and it makes 199.6hp @ wheels on 35 muds. I was very happy with the outcome, did it for under 2G but the extra torque and hp spun my HD clutch straight away so i had to put a suitable clutch in (an extra $700 to take into consideration). The 100% power gain makes a phenominal difference. I run the factory computer at this stage aswell.
My system consists of :
rx7 turbo
3in hiflow exhaust
front mount intercooler
custom manifold
custom airbox and snorkel

Hope this can be of some help or if anything else inspire you to definitely do it

If you need water for the turbo i have never had a problem just tee-ing into the supply heater hose just short of the firewall, just pirtek brass fittings did the job. Oil im hoping is fed from the a blanking bolt under the exhaust manifold, i saw one this arvo but it may be a water jacket???? dunno but many also run a oilfiter extension with provision for tapping into. Nissan are usually good with generic blocks for turbo and N/A.
And hows that, another bloke has just finished this same conversion, turbo and all.
I did consider surperchargers too for a short while but most obtainable stuff is off small Jap engines not really suitable for a 4.2, forget the toyota one everyone swears by, I intercooled a VP running one and it was dissapointing to say the least. Vortex and Capa are all still big dollars second hand, anyway im a rough prick when it comes to lining up pulleys and belt drives tedious stuff!!.
Im not using the carby at all, I will keep the lower runners and just have a simple Gas Research throttle doing its thing. Last few times i have been to calder have seen some very simple 250 falcon engines with this sort of arrangement, they idle, start and pull fast times, this negates the need for expensive fuel supplies, full engine management . Would like to think i can get away with my ONE converter, many of the turbo fellas run TWO.
Hopefully have some pics up this weekend of the intercooler in place.
cheers Brunsy
\
Just looked under the bonnet of the old mans F250 powerstroke, thats got a suitable turbo..........LOL

what dizzy / ignition set up will you run ?

For the dizzy
either a custom built boost compensating mechanical from ONTRACK4x4 or possibly a TB42E unit and spark only computer. Cross that one when i get to it.

Brunsy wrote:If you need water for the turbo i have never had a problem just tee-ing into the supply heater hose just short of the firewall, just pirtek brass fittings did the job. Oil im hoping is fed from the a blanking bolt under the exhaust manifold, i saw one this arvo but it may be a water jacket???? dunno but many also run a oilfiter extension with provision for tapping into. Nissan are usually good with generic blocks for turbo and N/A.
And hows that, another bloke has just finished this same conversion, turbo and all.
I did consider surperchargers too for a short while but most obtainable stuff is off small Jap engines not really suitable for a 4.2, forget the toyota one everyone swears by, I intercooled a VP running one and it was dissapointing to say the least. Vortex and Capa are all still big dollars second hand, anyway im a rough prick when it comes to lining up pulleys and belt drives tedious stuff!!.
Im not using the carby at all, I will keep the lower runners and just have a simple Gas Research throttle doing its thing. Last few times i have been to calder have seen some very simple 250 falcon engines with this sort of arrangement, they idle, start and pull fast times, this negates the need for expensive fuel supplies, full engine management . Would like to think i can get away with my ONE converter, many of the turbo fellas run TWO.
Hopefully have some pics up this weekend of the intercooler in place.
cheers Brunsy
\
Just looked under the bonnet of the old mans F250 powerstroke, thats got a suitable turbo..........LOL

I met a guy the other week with a Supercharged VL 3 litre 6 engine in an FC Holden. The supercharger is from the Commodore V6's and he bought it new from Eagle Spares in Dandenong for $1100.00 ( but he did work next door and may have been given a discount )

Sounds like a good project. With the low compression ratio I reckon your timing might be alright on low boost.

I have had a hand in a few cars and we seem to get about 5 or 6psi before detonation occurs. This is mainly in falcons though.

Prolly a stupid question, but what happens with the already bad economy after the turbo install on a tb42 ?

Economy Will be better, the tubo is making the engine more efficient as a machine, but with that comes the ability to consume more air and fuel so if you drive it hard it will use more juice. Boost is usefull energy that is normally wasted on a normal combustion engine. In what im doing, economy will not be altered as the turbo is only going to be a kind of helper later on in the revs, not a big power hike across the whole rev range. Sure with more air filling the cylinders more fuel will have to be added but its better than being flat to floor doing 70 up a long hill, that cant be too economical either. I am going to post some very accurate fuel consumption figures up when it comes together.

Brunsy, I priced the Bosch HEI distributor with boost retard on it at $770 from Performance Ignition Services. But that will also depend which cap and leads you will use, choice of two. But I do have an efi distributor spare and wondered about the ignition only computer option. I assumed more expensive. They and ICE have said that with the factory compression ratio, stick to about 4-5psi and no more than 6. They both also said that the timing will be what decides if you get turbo lag. The right timing will all but eliminate it off boost. Can some ignition only computers have a knock sensor linked to it? That would help heaps.

Ive been in Zac's Rig. It goes very hard. His set up is very neat and fairly straight forward but time consumeing. Apart from a blow off valve and a boost controller, the only touchy part was geting the timing and fuel pressure working together. In the end the timing was set to 6deg btdc and the fuel pressure at 45psi I think. ( tell me if Im wrong Zac). From dying in the arse going up a hill in fifth gear to picking up speed in fifth gear, its well worth the effort.

I also went to Performance ignition in Mitcham today, explained what i need and they suggested modifying my dizzy to electronic for around 500 and then a decent coil, they are fairly confident that it will do a reasonable job with low boost. Dont know why they would tell you boost is an issue due to compression, as these motors can handle a fair whack of boost.
Priced a Gas research Carby supplied and fitted $1650 OUCH wasnt expecting that at all. Like most things mechanical, start looking into them abit and there is usually somthing cheaper and just a suitable out there. Does anyone know much about them?? like how do you adjust one for boost, is it a linear thing or can u vary mixture referencing with boost????

Keep an eye on eBay - interesting what pops up:

http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search ... category0=

Ciao

Dave

Heaps of people, including LPGAS1, have all said don't use GasResearch stuff as the gains aren't worth the $. Great for performance when setup properly. Not to say it doesn't suit a daily driver, just not needed. I'd personaly prefer it still but they all said fit something Impco and use the efi manifold. Every LPG place has Impco parts, knows the product, it's cheap etc. As for GR setup with turbo, just need a balance tube between mixer and converter, and someone to tune it properly on a dyno. Want me to price GR stuff? What size mixer and would you like a converter with that? DIY install though.

More timing getting rid of turbo lag.. what a load of B.S.
Another turbochager option would be ford Xr6 turbo; has T3 base
but this would cost a lot more than import wreaker rx7 turbo

I agree

I agree too. Who said more timing would get rid of turbo lab? Probably melt a piston instead.

more timing at idle and low revs will definetly reduce your turbo lag.

and enough timing at idle and the exhaust temp will oxycut the turbo in half. Lag is mostly the turbo's reluctance to speed up (mass). Sure most engines idle "sweeter" with more advance, but this puts the whole show closer to detonation.

good luck with it , sounds like you have all the info you need

Haven't read the whole thread, Ive run a GQ shortie tb42 for 2 years on 15 psi with a roller GT3582 .70 comp and .83 exhaust A/R. It still goes strong 220 rear wheel kW but I put valve springs on recently due to some valve float. Iv'e 13 years dyno tuning experience at Gasresearch, ignition wise for LPG with a turbo you'll need ideally programable ignition. Set up with 15 degrees idle, 38 degrees cruise and around 15-25 degrees total depending on inlet air temps and boost level, more boost less total timing. Get a good dyno operator. Be vary scared of the e-bay turbos I've seen many fail in short periods, they are generally plain bearing turbos with large comp housings and small turbine housings which is good for your application as will spool quickly but the turbos dont have 360 degree thrusts and fail, MTQ can fit a 360 0degree thrust for about $350.00 as the turbos are generally copies of Garrett turbos. Best advice is guy a good turbo like a Roller for $1500-$1900 and don't have the hassle. E-Bay turbo wil cost $500 to buy and $1200 to repair with a new core when it fails.