Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hi all,
as you may know or not, am looking at getting a large 4wd to replace the suzuki gv with a 3000+kg towing ability..

Before i make my mind up, can owners of the landcruiser, patrol and disco owners post their fuel usages? probably looking for above 200o year model..

i also want to see the differences between petrol vs diesel..
and petrol vs petrol in different mdels and diesel vs deisel in different models.. so can you specify model, engine and erbox configuration and type of driving.

thanks all in advance

ill start buy addin this....

PETROLS (all the makes your askin about) = BAD FUEL CONSUMPTION
DIESELS (all the makes your askin about) = GOOD FUEL CONSUMPTION

if your looking to tow and are worried about fuel consuption, def dont get a petrol....

Cheers
Grimace

Disco TD5 2000. About 12.5l/100km around town, about 10.5l/100km+ (depending on speeds) on the highway.

AFAIK the 4.0V8 gets about 18.5+ around town and 16.5+ on the hwy.

AnthonyP wrote:ill start buy addin this....

PETROLS (all the makes your askin about) = BAD FUEL CONSUMPTION
DIESELS (all the makes your askin about) = GOOD FUEL CONSUMPTION

if your looking to tow and are worried about fuel consuption, def dont get a petrol....

Cheers
Grimace

Untill we towed to Tuff Truck i would have agreed

I have a 60 series with a 2h by towing around Se Qld i have 1/2 my tank range from 550-600km per tank to spot on 300km a tank while towing and its very slow.

I rescently towed a fully loaded camper(1t)from Brisbane to Tuff Truck. i used 280l which equates to 6.1 km/l

Folowing me was a petrol 05 V8 100 series and used $514 return running on premium fuel.

1700km round trip as well as being able to accelerate up hill.

The 100 series with a fully loaded car trailer (3t) ran at 4.7 km/l compared to the 4.4 km/l i get when towing with the 60

Maybe some of the turbo disel are getting better economy

STIKA wrote: I have a 60 series with a 2h
Folowing me was a petrol 05 V8 100 series

Bit of a harsh comparo, new car V 20yr old car - you would expect it to be different.

'00 GU Patrol 4.2TD Ute with load over 7500klms mixed 2H highway/4H desert ... 14.0lt per 100klms.

I would definitely not buy a petrol-only large four wheel drive.

I am very happy with the running cost on gas though, but you need dual fuel for practical reasons (not straight LPG).

Diesel, well, you have to factor in the huge costs of repairs. I maintain that dual fuel is a better bet than diesel in all those makes.

Specific numbers:

My SWB Maverick got 14.5 litres/100km on petrol only in very good tune on 29" skinny tyres, less on bigger tyres (but never measured sorry).

My LWB Maverick gets 28 litres/100km on gas, in mediocre tune (not tuned since I bought it), on 33" x 12.5" MTRs. Reasons for the difference - slight loss of economy on gas, extra weight of LWB, extra weight of 33"x12.5" tyres & rims, ~ 4" higher on suspension (= drag), idling too high (1100 rpm).

When you consider that a diesel costs more to buy and maintain, and has pathetic power compared to a petrol engine, and LPG is a third of the cost of diesel, 28 l/100km for gas is considerably better than 10 l/100km for diesel. Then again, if I found a good turbo diesel at the same price and engine size as a dual fuel petrol, I would probably go the turbo diesel.

Jason

not post 2000 but might give some idea

Nissan GQ 4.2L pet/gas. and 4.2L dies.

Petrol 55L tank ($72 to fill) = 350km = 6km/L = 15.7L/100km @ $1.31/L = $20.57/100km

Gas 90L us. tank ($41 to fill) = 330km = 3.6km/L = 27.3L/100km @ $0.45 = $12.29/100km

Diesel 90L tank ($120 to fill) = 650km = 7.2km/L = 13.8L/100km @ $1.34 = $18.50/100km

Over an 1800km journey (melb-syd return)

Gas only 6 fills x $41 = $246
Dual Fuel 3 fills x $113 = $339
Diesel 3 fills x $120 = $360
Petrol 6 fills x $72 = $432

chimpboy wrote:Diesel, well, you have to factor in the huge costs of repairs

which you have in petrols too..

bogged wrote:

STIKA wrote: I have a 60 series with a 2h
Folowing me was a petrol 05 V8 100 series

Bit of a harsh comparo, new car V 20yr old car - you would expect it to be different.

dito

chimpboy wrote:When you consider that a diesel costs more to buy and maintain, and has pathetic power compared to a petrol engine
Jason

You obviously havnt driven many new diesel powered 4wds.... all the power in the world is usless without the torque low down... specially when it comes to towing...

Most of the time these days where a diesel lacks high horsepower it makes up for excelent low down torque.

I am not saying the new petrols dont have mega torque figures aswell but to claim a diesel to be soo lacking in power compared to a petrol is pretty much laughable these days...

bogged wrote:

STIKA wrote: I have a 60 series with a 2h
Folowing me was a petrol 05 V8 100 series

Bit of a harsh comparo, new car V 20yr old car - you would expect it to be different.

tsandu asked for figuers thats what i have given him

AnthonyP wrote: You obviously havnt driven many new diesel powered 4wds.... all the power in the world is usless without the torque low down... specially when it comes to towing...

That's true - I admit that.

Most of the time these days where a diesel lacks high horsepower it makes up for excelent low down torque.

I am not saying the new petrols dont have mega torque figures aswell but to claim a diesel to be soo lacking in power compared to a petrol is pretty much laughable these days...

I am not really sure that I agree even so. I can't think of a diesel engine in an Aussie-delivered 4WD where the equivalent petrol doesn't have significantly more power AND torque pretty much through the rev range. Give us some examples!

Jason

chimpboy wrote:I am not really sure that I agree even so. I can't think of a diesel engine in an Aussie-delivered 4WD where the equivalent petrol doesn't have significantly more power AND torque pretty much through the rev range. Give us some examples!

Jason

NISSAN
4.8 Petrol Patrol - 180kW@4800 - 400Nm@3600
4.2 Diesel Patrol - 114kW@3600 - 360Nm@2000
not as much power but plenty of torque availble where you need it

TOYOTA
4.7 Petrol Landcruiser - 170kW@4800 - 410Nm@3400
4.2 Diesel Landcruiser - 96kW@3800 - 285Nm@2200
add a turbo -150kW@3400 430Nm@1400
prime example of orsum pulling power highlighted in bold

LAND ROVER
wellit prob take me 100 years to find that info in a solid state as their site is full of soo much crap....

AnthonyP wrote:

chimpboy wrote:I am not really sure that I agree even so. I can't think of a diesel engine in an Aussie-delivered 4WD where the equivalent petrol doesn't have significantly more power AND torque pretty much through the rev range. Give us some examples!

Jason

NISSAN
4.8 Petrol Patrol - 180kW@4800 - 400Nm@3600
4.2 Diesel Patrol - 114kW@3600 - 360Nm@2000
not as much power but plenty of torque availble where you need it

TOYOTA
4.7 Petrol Landcruiser - 170kW@4800 - 410Nm@3400
4.2 Diesel Landcruiser - 96kW@3800 - 285Nm@2200
add a turbo -150kW@3400 430Nm@1400
prime example of orsum pulling power highlighted in bold

LAND ROVER
wellit prob take me 100 years to find that info in a solid state as their site is full of soo much crap....

Okay, I'll definitely pay the TD landcruiser - 430Nm @ 1400 rpm is fugging awesome, and I am surprised a turbo adds so much torque so low in the rev range.

3.0 tdi Patrol standard can get as low as 10 lt/100 km.
Loaded with all accesories,larger tyres,roof rack, camping gear etc,will see up to 15lt/100km.

is there much noticable difference between the new 3.0TD and 4.2TD in terms of drivability? and power on road?

in consumption it seems the diff from about 10L / 100km to 15L/100km
which seems considerbale.. so am thinking on sticking with the 3Ltd

having said that.. another thought would be the 3LTD would need to be pushed harder to acheive a similar performace to the 4.2TD..
so you would have a 3.0TD pushed hard = 15l/100km where ou can drive he 4.2TD very light foted(giving same performance as the 3.0TD pushed hard) and will still give you 15l/100km.. but you still have the option of pushing the 4.2TD harder if you want the extra $$$$ burnt on fuel..

sorry about all these questions.. but am used to the 2.5L petrol suzuki that is very efficient.. and although i need to get something to tow 3 tonnes.. i would still ike to keep the fuel cost down.. at the moment leaning towards a ~2002/2003 patrol.. the td5's would appear to be the most economical, but as they arent to populer, am thinking parts down the track would be a killer..

hmm just noticed.. the landcruiser has a 4.2TD.. is the partrol 4.2 non turbo? hmm

AnthonyP wrote:

chimpboy wrote:I am not really sure that I agree even so. I can't think of a diesel engine in an Aussie-delivered 4WD where the equivalent petrol doesn't have significantly more power AND torque pretty much through the rev range. Give us some examples!

Jason

NISSAN
4.8 Petrol Patrol - 180kW@4800 - 400Nm@3600
4.2 Diesel Patrol - 114kW@3600 - 360Nm@2000
not as much power but plenty of torque availble where you need it

TOYOTA
4.7 Petrol Landcruiser - 170kW@4800 - 410Nm@3400
4.2 Diesel Landcruiser - 96kW@3800 - 285Nm@2200
add a turbo -150kW@3400 430Nm@1400
prime example of orsum pulling power highlighted in bold

LAND ROVER
wellit prob take me 100 years to find that info in a solid state as their site is full of soo much crap....

There isn't a lot in it for the Discos.
4.0V8 130kw/340Nm or similar
Td5 101kw/315Nm

Slunnie wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

chimpboy wrote:I am not really sure that I agree even so. I can't think of a diesel engine in an Aussie-delivered 4WD where the equivalent petrol doesn't have significantly more power AND torque pretty much through the rev range. Give us some examples!

Jason

NISSAN
4.8 Petrol Patrol - 180kW@4800 - 400Nm@3600
4.2 Diesel Patrol - 114kW@3600 - 360Nm@2000
not as much power but plenty of torque availble where you need it

TOYOTA
4.7 Petrol Landcruiser - 170kW@4800 - 410Nm@3400
4.2 Diesel Landcruiser - 96kW@3800 - 285Nm@2200
add a turbo -150kW@3400 430Nm@1400
prime example of orsum pulling power highlighted in bold

LAND ROVER
wellit prob take me 100 years to find that info in a solid state as their site is full of soo much crap....

There isn't a lot in it for the Discos.
4.0V8 130kw/340Nm or similar
Td5 101kw/315Nm

Then add a Davis chip and intercooler to the disco and it's 170kw and 500nm of torque

The way I see it - to tow 3 tonnes you would need a 3Lt Patrol in manual form ( auto is only 2.5 T tow rated ) BUT they are a dog off boost - you'd have to really row it. I have an auto which I recently got 10.5 lt/100km on highway @92 kmh with tools in back, bars both ends, and roofracks, oh and Autron cruise ( reason for economy run) . BTW auto is great behind 3lt. Around town is about 14.5 lt/100. On a family trip to Perth loaded up to the max with roof rack we got about 13.7 lt/100 ( no cruise and sitting on the limit). Hope all this helps, good luck with your decision. Intersting comparo Simpson crossing, all with family's and attendant crap. Mt Dare to Birdsville, Defender 60lt of diesel. Patrol '02 3lt auto diesel 100lt. Patrol '98 4.5 petrol manual 120 lt.

Maggot4x4 wrote:

Slunnie wrote: There isn't a lot in it for the Discos.
4.0V8 130kw/340Nm or similar
Td5 101kw/315Nm

Then add a Davis chip and intercooler to the disco and it's 170kw and 500nm of torque

An extra 185Nm of torque just from a chip? I have to say that sounds unlikely - is this based on anything except a claim from the manufacturer?

I've got the dyno sheets, though they're a crappy faded fax now. The chips upgrades will give from about 100 to 147kw and up to I think its 450Nm. With the intercooler upgrade it then up to 160/170 - 200/210kw and 520Nm. There is also a 250kw chip apparently, though I don't know anybody with it.

The 160-170kw/520Nm spec I've currently got in the TD5.

do they achieve this by running higher boost ? has the td5 got electronic ECU controlled boost control? I'd be surprised as not even the nissan 200sx i had has that technology, and all the $1k-$2k electronic boost controls were fairly poor.. if they dont run higher boost i cant see how ypu would get so much gain.. and if they do run significantly higher boost.. the turbo will be out of efficiency raise, and it will prematurely fail.. and when it does you better hope one of the fins hasnt been swallowed by a piston (which is usually what happens).

The TD5 already runs at about 17-18psi boost from the factory which I think is why the motor already responds so well to the intercooler upgrade. The chip upgrade doesn't require adjustment of the boost, just checking that it right. If the boost goes up any further the computer limps the motor until the boost is reduced again anyway.

As far as I'm aware, the chip upgrade works by altering the fueling maps. Both ECU setups have multiple maps and as you boot it more, it just keeps changing to more agressive maps.

160kw from a chiped td5 is not un heard of . but hard for the japper boys to beleave that a small diesel can put out more grunt than ther allmost 5.0 liters of japp goodness as for anthony p were you born a tool or was it beaten in to you?

I have a '89 model carby 4.2 litre petrol patrol with manual box.

I get about 18lt/100km - on freeway being totally conservative (not more than 90km/h tailwind etc)

at worst around town when I am late for where I have to be.. I get about 22lt/100km.

On the weekend I went fourbying in mountainous terrain where I was mainly driving in 1st 2nd and 3rd. I spent not more than 10 minutes in 4th and some 15 minutes in low 1st, up a couple of steep bits. I averaged 24lt/100km over the 385km trip. I didn't think that was too bad.

Mate with 3.5 litre supercharged Pajero used almost exactly the same fuel for the trip.

my pootrol (4.5 petrol) uses 17 per hundred on the highway and 22per hundred around town. ( i only just got it a couple weeks ago and have only gone through about 5 or 6 tanks worth of fuel...
or my pajero (2.5 tdi) returns anywhere between 8.5 per hundred to 14 per hundred depending on how hard i boot it.
newer pajeros drink a bit less i think..

i hope this helps..


if you want fuel eficiency then dont get a petrol pootrol....
i think most will tell you the same.

get a diesel if you can afford the $$$

460cixy wrote:as for anthony p were you born a tool or was it beaten in to you?

born... but maybe you could beat sum more into me.... id like that

Engine Code: XY2
Engine Location: Front
Engine Orientation: Longitudinal
Engine Description:
Eight cylinders, V-formation, OHV/pushrods, cast-iron, cross-flow heads.
Capacity (Cm3): 5737cm3
Fuel System Type: PFI
Maximum Power: 215kW @ 4800rpm
Maximum Torque:
475Nm @ 3600rpm Over 400Nm is available at 1200rpm
Cylinders: V8
Valve Train: OHV
Valves Per Cylinder: 2v
Block Material: Cast-iron
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Fuel Type: 91 RON ULP
Fuel Tank Capacity: 80 litres
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