Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Does anybody know where I can get an on car wheel balance on my GU preferably on the Eastern Side of Melbourne, I have had a few suggestions of Beaurepairs in Kilsyth but they don't do it anymore,

Years ago I worked for a company which serviced this equipment (amongst other stuff - I was on "other stuff.") A couple of times I tried to get my Paj balanced with one of these "on-car" balancers, and each time I was told they only worked for non-driven, non-steer wheels - i.e. rear wheels of fwd vehicles.

Perhaps technology has improved?

Scott

bob jane

imho if they cant balance a wheel on a normal balancer they r useless, or u have other problems with ur car.

bazooked wrote:imho if they cant balance a wheel on a normal balancer they r useless, or u have other problems with ur car.

Have to agree from my own experiences.

Bazzle

A normal DYNAMIC (*EDIT* - corrected from static which is another form of balance that is not as accurate ), off car balance is a true balance of a tyre/rim combination for passenger, 4wd and light trucks.
On car balancers are good for making sure the rim is mounted to the vehicle and running true (not off centre on the studs and located accurately). We have one here but don't use it to put weights on the rim, just to spin it up on the vehicle and check for runout in the assembly.

Cheers,
Ryano

Ryano what are on a static balance is for straight line a dynamic balance is what you want if you don't want the steering wheel to shake out of your hands when you try to go around corners,remember the old pushy wheel when you hold it by the axle and spin it it's nice and smooth when you hold straight(static) but when you move from side to side it shakes your arms off!!!!! an on car balancer is a static balancer and is old technology most reputable tyre shops should have the correct equipment to successfully balance patrol wheels (thats if your not trying to cover up another issue with your vehicle)ie worn or out adjustment swivel hub bearings,steeering damper,tie rods etc , Chilli

CHILLI 2 wrote:Ryano what are on a static balance is for straight line a dynamic balance is what you want if you don't want the steering wheel to shake out of your hands when you try to go around corners,remember the old pushy wheel when you hold it by the axle and spin it it's nice and smooth when you hold straight(static) but when you move from side to side it shakes your arms off!!!!!

WTF?

Your pushbike wheel analogy has nothing to do with wheel balance. The wobbling is to do with rotational dynamics and vector addition. The best balanced wheel in the world will still behave the same.

If the wheel and tyre is properly balanced it's properly balanced - end of story. If an "on-car balance" is required, it's compensating for a fault elsewhere in the system.

Scott

Okay then -
Why is it that when I say to people who have GUs or GQs that have had a shimmy problem?

"Get an on car balance - fixed my car wobble straight away."

BOB_1 wrote:Okay then -
Why is it that when I say to people who have GUs or GQs that have had a shimmy problem?

"Get an on car balance - fixed my car wobble straight away."

NJ SWB wrote:If an "on-car balance" is required, it's compensating for a fault elsewhere in the system.

CHILLI 2 wrote:Ryano what are on a static balance is for straight line a dynamic balance is what you want if you don't want the steering wheel to shake out of your hands when you try to go around corners,remember the old pushy wheel when you hold it by the axle and spin it it's nice and smooth when you hold straight(static) but when you move from side to side it shakes your arms off!!!!! an on car balancer is a static balancer and is old technology most reputable tyre shops should have the correct equipment to successfully balance patrol wheels (thats if your not trying to cover up another issue with your vehicle)ie worn or out adjustment swivel hub bearings,steeering damper,tie rods etc , Chilli

You know what I mean Chris. Brain fart.
Got my terms mixed up, and you are correct, DYNAMIC is what I meant.
(Sucks getting old )

My apologies,
Ryano

That's ok Ryano you've got a bit to catch up to me!!!!and to the doubter of the pushbike wheel theory when you've done more wheel balance courses and spent more than 22 years in the tyre industry as i have you then you can tell me your theory!!! why do you think VICTOR BRAY still uses a bubble balancer?it's because he doesn't turn corners!Why do you think touring cars use a dynamic balancer? you guessed it know all!!!!

NJ SWB just thinks he knows everything about everything

Ryano wrote:A normal DYNAMIC (*EDIT* - corrected from static which is another form of balance that is not as accurate ), off car balance is a true balance of a tyre/rim combination for passenger, 4wd and light trucks.
On car balancers are good for making sure the rim is mounted to the vehicle and running true (not off centre on the studs and located accurately). We have one here but don't use it to put weights on the rim, just to spin it up on the vehicle and check for runout in the assembly.

Cheers,
Ryano

yeh and be sure to remove mud and water first

Do you possibly want to get them balanced from the stud holes and not the rim center hole if that makes sense ?

CHILLI 2 wrote:and to the doubter of the pushbike wheel theory when you've done more wheel balance courses and spent more than 22 years in the tyre industry as i have you then you can tell me your theory!!! why do you think VICTOR BRAY still uses a bubble balancer?it's because he doesn't turn corners!Why do you think touring cars use a dynamic balancer? you guessed it know all!!!!

Where did I challenge the differences between static and dynamic balancing? I challenged your "push bike wheel" analogy. I've witnessed the behaviour you describe, and it's what is commonly referred to as a gyroscopic effect. More accurately, it's caused by the way rotational vectors interact, which happens in a non-intuitive fashion. The best balanced wheel in the world will exhibit the same behaviour.

Now, if you're talking about something else, please educate me.

blkmav wrote:NJ SWB just thinks he knows everything about everything

No, I've just been an engineer for 20 years, and know a reasonable amount about physics. I, like others, am here to learn, and I won't sit back when somebody posts something I believe is wrong.

If you post something I believe is wrong, I'll post a response. If you don't like your "knowledge" being challenged, don't post on a public forum.

Scott

nj you could well be right in what you think you know but i can assure you that the reason a wheel is balanced Dynamically is so that it stops the effect that i have mentioned ! i can also assure you that on some vehicles if the wheel is not balanced this way when you take a long sweeping corner the vehicle will experience shaking much like the "pushbike wheel"If you don't agree maybe you should call the engineers that design the wheel balancers and specialized equipment that is used by every tyre shop in the world to help eliminate these and many other road disturbance problems suffered by many late model vehicles or better still maybe you could get a job working with them as you obviously know better than they do!!!

CHILLI 2 wrote:nj you could well be right in what you think you know but i can assure you that the reason a wheel is balanced Dynamically is so that it stops the effect that i have mentioned ! i can also assure you that on some vehicles if the wheel is not balanced this way when you take a long sweeping corner the vehicle will experience shaking much like the "pushbike wheel"If you don't agree maybe you should call the engineers that design the wheel balancers and specialized equipment that is used by every tyre shop in the world to help eliminate these and many other road disturbance problems suffered by many late model vehicles or better still maybe you could get a job working with them as you obviously know better than they do!!!

Are you trying to say that if you balanced a bicycle wheel, then spun it and held it in your hands by the axle, that it wouldn't resist turning?????????? If you are (which is what is sounds like), then you are wrong.

To find out why:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope
http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/ ... 115807.htm

No-one is saying you are not an expert at balancing wheels, just that your bicycle wheel analogy is wrong.

CHILLI 2 wrote:nj you could well be right in what you think you know but i can assure you that the reason a wheel is balanced Dynamically is so that it stops the effect that i have mentioned ! i can also assure you that on some vehicles if the wheel is not balanced this way when you take a long sweeping corner the vehicle will experience shaking much like the "pushbike wheel"If you don't agree maybe you should call the engineers that design the wheel balancers and specialized equipment that is used by every tyre shop in the world to help eliminate these and many other road disturbance problems suffered by many late model vehicles or better still maybe you could get a job working with them as you obviously know better than they do!!!

Gee, you really don't like being questioned, do you? You can't understand what I'm saying, either.

I have never disputed that dynamic balancing is a good thing. I would never choose a static balance over a dynamic balance - but I don't drive as fast as Victor Bray, either. I am also well aware that an "unbalanced" wheel may only exhibit problems at certain speeds, or under certain conditions.

You write "experience shaking much like the pushbike wheel" - it may be LIKE the pushbike wheel, but it's not the same cause. The "pushbike wheel" effect I'm talking about is a basic demonstration used in high school physics, and has NOTHING to do with wheel balance.

If you want to argue, stick with the subject. Don't divert attention by making snide comments about the benefits of wheel balancers, the complexity of the equipment or the intelligence of the engineers who design them. I'm not disputing any of that. I challenged your statement that the pushbike wheel shakes because it isn't properly balanced, and that's what you're upset about. And you've yet to provide any evidence to the contrary.

You can balance a pushbike wheel to eliminate the effect you described?

Scott

What i am saying is that the effect of static balancing is the same as holding a pushbike wheel while it's spinning.(NJ is correct in what he is saying about the gyroscope effect) You could also get a similar effect with dynamic if not performed correctly there is a reason wheel weights are on opposite sides and different spacings if the weights were on different sides but at the same spot it would still not be correctly balanced and would exhibit similar charcteristics.And NJ nowhere have i said the wheel wouldn't do the same if was balanced i said you experience the same effect wheather it be caused by gyroscopic effects or balance further more does a car not suffer from gyroscopic effects if so how do you stop it ?if not ,why not?

apart from ryano how many of you experts have worked fitting or ballanceing tyres? fuck all i would say. its not rocket science.. how many of you would bag out a buubble ballencer? i had a mate here in canberra that worked at jax and could never get his pos gemini to ballance . 80 kph and it was trying to pull the wheel out of your hand. for about a month i said ile balance ya wheels. he said yeah ya bubble balance is a peice of shit bglah blah i balanced them on the old repco balencer and he dident know what to say full tilt in the old gem and not a quibble at the wheel. but ask any one bubble balencers are shit will also point out on car balencers are illegal in the a.c.t