Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Can anyone help me with the wiring for this relay? ( New-Era NLR - 132) At the moment the spotties turn on and off when the headlights are high and low, but they turn on again when the lights are off. This isn't such a drama, I just have to remember to turn the switch off every time I turn the lights off. I would like to have them wired up correctly however - any help is greatly appreciated.

Attached is a pic of how it is wired up now.

Hi CairnsZook, the diagrams at the site listed bellow will give you the exact wiring for that type relay, including a diagram of the relay.

Cheers and hope it helps.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?t=27229

Interesting, I seem to be the proud owner of a Chinese knock-off of that type of relay (I notice yours says "made in japan").

I think it's a great design. I had to open it up, shorten the springs, and adjust (ie bend with pliers) the arms to get the contacts lined up right and the arm at the right distance from the magnet. Before I did that it kept sticking in the on position.

Anyway. Those diagrams are excellent (as always), but I just thought I would mention that it made extra sense to me to think of the terminals as standing for:

S1 - signal 1/switch 1
S2 - signal 2/switch 2
L1 - lamp 1 (that's high beam in drivesafe's diagram)
L2 - lamp 2 (low beam)
B - battery (positive)
S - well, ground

The Chinese knock-off relay cost me $16, including the fuses, then some time to do their quality control work. Any idea what the better quality Jap ones cost?

Jason

Thanks for the diagrams Drivesafe, they are great. It turns out that I do have it all wired up properly, but still have the problem of the spotties remaining on when the lights are off.

Chimpboy. sorry I can't tell you what it cost. I bought it with my spotties about 4 years ago.

I have been running it directly from the battery to a switch on the dash since then and have only now gotten around to setting it up properly.

I'm guessing the wiring to your switch is incorrect.

Normally the High beam is tapped off and fed to the switch, and then the relay.
That way the spotties can only come on when on High beam.

Drivesafe's diagram shows that.

Glad to bo of some assistance CairnsZook.

Hi chimpboy, off subject a bit but funny you should mention about these Chinese knock-off relays sticking.

Many, MANY moons ago, I was coming from Lithgow to Sydney via Bell’s Line Rd at about 3 am when a car coming towards me didn’t dim his lights.

I flashed him and noticed his headlights went high and low but the Driving lights stayed on so I just flashed him again and we passed.

Next thing I know, he is braking and turns around and then the blue lights come on.

We pull up and one of the cops wants to know what the idea was of flashing them.

I told him I saw his headlights dim but his driving lights remained on and asked if his off sider could dim the lights, which he did and ( thank heavens ) the driving lights were still stuck on.

He apologised and I told him I could fix it if he pops his bonnet.

They opened the bonnet and I showed how using a very special tool, he could fix it any time it stuck.

I then clouted the relay with the handle of a screw driver and all was well.

The point to all this is that the relay was exactly the same as CairnsZooks, a New Era.

Cheers.

drivesafe wrote:I then clouted the relay with the handle of a screw driver and all was well.

The point to all this is that the relay was exactly the same as CairnsZooks, a New Era.

Yep, I was doing the same thing until I got around to fixing it. Tap tap!

I am wondering if this is Cairnszook's current problem - not that the switch is wired wrong but that the relay is sticky.

By the way after the few adjustments the relay is perfect now and it's less fuss to hook up than two separate relays plus two fuses.

Jason

Sticky relay.
mmmmmm. possible.

But he states he can turn them off with the switch.

The fact that hi/lo works as it's supposed to has me baffled though.
(I've also had a couple of beers now, so thinking is not high on the priorty list)

Ralf the RR wrote:Sticky relay.
mmmmmm. possible.

But he states he can turn them off with the switch.

The fact that hi/lo works as it's supposed to has me baffled though.
(I've also had a couple of beers now, so thinking is not high on the priorty list)

You're right. The sticking relays story is interesting, but doesn't explain the problem here.

The spotlights are on whenever the low beams are not energised.

Can't get beyond that.

Scott

NJ SWB wrote:

Ralf the RR wrote:Sticky relay.
mmmmmm. possible.

But he states he can turn them off with the switch.

The fact that hi/lo works as it's supposed to has me baffled though.
(I've also had a couple of beers now, so thinking is not high on the priorty list)

You're right. The sticking relays story is interesting, but doesn't explain the problem here.

The spotlights are on whenever the low beams are not energised.

Can't get beyond that.

Scott

Yes, I agree. The short answer is that there's no way the switch, relay, and lights are wired correctly if the spotlights come on when the headlamps are fully off.

I want to know what voltage is showing at each terminal when the headlights are on high, low, or off, and the spotlights switch is on or off.

For example S1/S2 should show 12V only if the high beam is on and the spotlights switch is on. Overall the terminals should go like this:
It wouldn't hurt to know more about the switch either.

Thanks for all they help guys. The relay is working fine - I pulled the plastic cover off it and witnessed the contacts going up and down - so no problems there. The switch is a simple on/off switch between S1 and the high beam wire under the dash. I also tried a test with the switch between S1 and the high beam on the headlight itself, giving me the same result. I'll see if I can get hold of a multimeter tomorrow and compare it to Chimpboy's voltage table.

Hi again CairnsZook, it sounds like you have negative switched lights.

If so then the common to the headlight globes is going to be positive, ( at all times ).

Again, if so, ( and I’m taking a guess here ) then you have actually picked up the low beam wire as your switching wire, not the high beam wire.

What is happening is when you turn your headlights on, you will most likely be in low beam and as such the wire going from the low beam filament is connected to negative via your headlight switch. This will stop the driving light relay powering

When you select high beam, the low beam wire is disconnected from negative and now goes positive because the other side of the filament is the common wire which is positive at all times.

You can’t get much current through the filament but it is enough to power the relay coils.

This would explain why the driving lights come on when you have high beam on and why they again come on when you turn your lights off.

A quick test is, when your driving lights are on with the headlight switch turned off, pull the headlight fuse out and see if the driving lights go out.

If this turns your driving lights off, the rewire is quick and simple.

Cheers.

Thanks Drivesafe, I'll try that as soon as I can drag myself away from this bloody computer. My right and left headlights have separate fuses though, will this make a difference?

CairnsZook wrote:My right and left headlights have separate fuses though, will this make a difference?

Shouldn’t make any difference other than if you pull one and nothing happens, replace it and try the other. ( fuse that is )

Cheers and keep us informed.

OK, I tried pulling the headlight fuses out with the driving lights on and this is what happened:

Driving lights stayed on.

I then turned the driving lights off and as predicted they went off.

I turned them on again and only one came on.

Turned them off, and yes they went off.

Turned them on again and nothing happened.



Chimpboy, here are the multimeter readings too:


Headlights,spots switch| S1/S2 | L1/L2 | B | S
--------------------------------------------------------
High, on | 10V | 11V | 11V | .2
High, off | 0V | 0V | 12V | -ve
Low, on | .6V | 0V | 12V | -ve
Low, off | 0V | 0V | 12V | -ve
Off, on | 12V | 12V | 12V | -ve
Off, off | 0V | 0V | 12V | -ve



Quite a bit different to yours!

Hi CZ, the only thing I could suggest is that you try testing again with your motor running and see if both driving lights stay where before only one was on.

If they do, I would again suggest that you have some sort of feed back through one of your headlight globe filaments.

This is just a guess ( AGAIN ) but I think the reason only one driving light came on is because the resistance in a filament is right on the border of the amount of current that is needed to operate the relays.

Most Automotive relays can work from as low as 7 or 8 volts.

Cheers and have fun.

PS Best of luck

I have to say, I think the go here is to rip the switch and wires out, and start from scratch.

1. Mount the spotlights and make sure you've wired in a good ground. I would probably ground them to the body/chassis close to them rather than running the ground wire all the way back to the relay.

2. Run the power wires back from the spotlights to the relay L1 and L2 terminals.

3. Run the main power wire from the battery to the relay B terminal. (Unless this wire is quite short, it should have a fuse inline close to the battery).

4. Connect the relay S terminal to ground (but note we might be pulling this off again at step five).

You are now at a point where you can do a few tests with a short piece of wire to bridge different terminals on the relay.

(a) connect B <-> L1: one spotlight should come on.
(b) connect B <-> L2: the other spotlight should come on.
(c) connect B <-> S1: one spotlight should come on.
(d) connect B <-> S2: the other spotlight should come on.

If (a) or (b) doesn't work, then your spotlights are not wired right or are dodgy.

If (a) and (b) work but (c) and (d) don't, then your relay is stuffed or you forgot to connect S to ground.

Okay, now if all the tests worked we're back to the wiring.

We have to work out whether you have negative or positive switched headlights. This is pretty easy. Pull one headlight plug off while the headlights are fully off. Now check the voltage at all three connectors, but remember you have to check voltage vs both -ve AND +ve.

So:

(a) you put the red wire of your multimeter into the red battery terminal, and then touch the black wire to each of the headlight terminals in turn. Do you get 12V anywhere? If so, you have +ve switched lights.

(b) now put the black wire of the multimeter into the black battery terminal, and touch the red wire to each of the headlight terminals in turn. Do you get 12V anywhere? If so, you have -ve switched lights.


[If you get both (a) and (b). you are going to need kerosene and matches to fix the problem]

I recommend trying the above (disconnecting all the old wiring first) and then taking it from there.

OK Chimpboy, I have rewired everything and done all the tests you suggested. They worked as expected, and are negatively switched.

No need for kerosene and matches

Go the Chimp!

Onya Jason! - Good work!

CairnsZook - I suggest you sit down before you open his invoice.

Scott

Okay!

Since you've got negative switched lights, you need to:

5. remove the wire that goes from S to ground, the one you put on in step 4.

Now...

6. Run a short jumper connecting S to B (this is permanent now, not temporary like the ground wire from step 4/5). In other words, S will also be permanently +ve, same as B.

7. Run another jumper from S2 to S1.

8. Run a wire from S1 to one terminal on the switch.

9. Run a wire from the other terminal on the switch to the high beam wire. This is the blue wire on drivesafe's diagram. (It becomes -ve when the high beam is on, otherwise it is neither +ve nor -ve.)

That should be it unless you're using an illuminated toggle switch. If so, you just need to run one more wire, from the third terminal of the switch to a permanent +12V wire somewhere nearby, eg. the cigarette lighter.

I hope I didn't mess up any of that...

Chimpboy - you are a legend!

Everything now works perfectly. I did have the wrong wire for high beam though . The right one was red with two little blue dots.




Thanks, I'll have to drop by with a carton next time I'm in town!

For anybody else contemplating wiring up some driving lights and have a vehicle fitted with H4 headlight globes ( 3 pin ). To save a lot of time and do away with the need for a multi meter, simply run two wires from each of the two relay coil terminals to the plug on the back of the headlight globe.

There are three terminals on the socket ( as per the diagram ), the two side terminal are used for high beam. Connect to the two wires on to the side terminals of the socket. It doesn’t matter which way round and you don’t have to workout if the vehicles headlights are negative or positive, it will still work the new relay and the job is done.

If you want to add a switch to turn the driving lights off while high beam is on ( a legal requirement in most states ) just run one of the wires coming from the headlight, to a switch and then run a wire from the other side of the switch back to the relay’s coil terminal.

Again, it doesn’t matter which wire you use and you still won’t need a multi meter.

This will save you having to go through the nightmare that CairnsZook has just gone through.

Cheers

drivesafe wrote:For anybody else contemplating wiring up some driving lights and have a vehicle fitted with H4 headlight globes ( 3 pin ). To save a lot of time and do away with the need for a multi meter, simply run two wires from each of the two relay coil terminals to the plug on the back of the headlight globe.

There are three terminals on the socket ( as per the diagram ), the two side terminal are used for high beam. Connect to the two wires on to the side terminals of the socket. It doesn’t matter which way round and you don’t have to workout if the vehicles headlights are negative or positive, it will still work the new relay and the job is done.

If you want to add a switch to turn the driving lights off while high beam is on ( a legal requirement in most states ) just run one of the wires coming from the headlight, to a switch and then run a wire from the other side of the switch back to the relay’s coil terminal.

Again, it doesn’t matter which wire you use and you still won’t need a multi meter.

This will save you having to go through the nightmare that CairnsZook has just gone through.

I agree this is the best way to go, but I can't help thinking that everyone should know whether they have negative or positive switched headlights anyway, just as a sort of basic bit of knowledge about their own vehicle.

Anyway, glad this one's sorted!

Hi chimpboy, I also agree that people should know how their wiring works, but on the other hand, I don’t know of any other wiring in a vehicle that causes as much trouble as what occurs all to regularly when people try to hook up driving lights to their vehicle.

It should be straight forward but unfortunately it is also confusing to someone who can’t get their head around the fact that the headlights work literally in reverse on vehicles with negative switched headlights.

Cheers.

"This will save you having to go through the nightmare that CairnsZook has just gone through. "

Nightmare, I agree. Trying to wire up spotlights in the dark, outside, in Tasmania, with winter fast approaching, when you're used to the swealtering humidity of Cairns.

As you said I did learn heaps though - so again thanks fellas

What are you doing moving from Cairns to Tasmania.

Nothing against Tasy but it is a tad cold after being in FNQ.

Cheers.

Maybe this thread should be stickied.
Virtually everyone that has a fourby has spotties, and some of the wiring out there is a bit ordinary.
Maybe the thread could do with a bit of a clean-up before that though...