Outer Limits 4x4 Board

what the topic says, like dogs who are confined to teh showring generally degenerate, i see the same thing happening with 4bys, newer models made to look good, and handle better onroad, with not as much importance put onto offroad ability

will we see a degeneration of 4bys in years to come?

DiStuRBeD wrote:what the topic says, like dogs who are confined to teh showring generally degenerate, i see the same thing happening with 4bys, newer models made to look good, and handle better onroad, with not as much importance put onto offroad ability

will we see a degeneration of 4bys in years to come?

nissan has picked up a heap of the mine business as they are live axle so I reckon they will stick to live axle for a while yet

Tiny wrote:nissan has picked up a heap of the mine business as they are live axle so I reckon they will stick to live axle for a while yet

Sales to mines would only make a small percentage of total sales. The majority of sales go to soccer mums who want a large 4x4 to handle like a falcon or commodore. Without a doubt, the next model patrol will have at least IFS.

DiStuRBeD wrote:will we see a degeneration of 4bys in years to come?

what do you mean - WILL WE?? its been happening for the last few yrs...

yep, next patrol is IFS, and will be some crap computerized disaster too.

COOL ! the partrols gunna be as GAHEY as a 100 series cruza . hahhahahahahahahahahahaha

jugger wrote:COOL ! the partrols gunna be as GAHEY as a 100 series cruza . hahhahahahahahahahahahaha

that would be impossible

bogged wrote:

jugger wrote:COOL ! the partrols gunna be as GAHEY as a 100 series cruza . hahhahahahahahahahahahaha

that would be impossible

It may be GAHEY,

But at least it's not a Datsun

Surely nissan will leave something to compete with the live-axle 70 series cruisers? (that's assuming the next gen 70's are live axle )

But yes, at least when it comes to the wagons, i can't see them getting any better, that's or sure.

-Stu

dogbreath_48 wrote:Surely nissan will leave something to compete with the live-axle 70 series cruisers? (that's assuming the next gen 70's are live axle )

But yes, at least when it comes to the wagons, i can't see them getting any better, that's or sure.

-Stu

I had heard something about the 70's coming out with Prado running gear, but I called bullsh*t on it so I dunno

least a patrol is still not a camry i would never buy a ifs 4wd nor would i be bothered paying more money for a 4wd that is weak in most aspects.e.g: axles, diffs, gearboxes and stupid spare tyre location.

There will always be a handfull of live axles, and even if they DO start to phase them out completely, there will still be a few around atleast till I die . There's still Jimny, Wrangler, GU, 75 Series IIRC with live, plus there has to be demand for them in the states, and europe where 4x4ing is much more common, so we are bound to get some similar models... or just imports. Could increase the demand for dana's in aus, and lower the price?

well jeep is doing both ... by the sounds of it bring out soon a soccer mum car and the next wrangler is spose to be

Yeah the next wrangler should be as good off road as the current. Better yet if we get the Rubicon option here with D44 front and rear, remote disconnect front sway bar, 4:1 transfer case with SYE, 32" tyres stock, slight lift over non-Rubicon 2" I think. The US get that option on the current wrangler, hopefully we will get it too with the choice of V6 petrol or diesel.

Whether you like Jeep or not, at least in the US they still cater for those who want a more capable factory vehicle and also for those they don't.

Well if that is the future of 4x4s, it dark, its almost tommorow, I am going to duck outside and give the old GQ a spit and polish!

ofr57 wrote:well jeep is doing both ... by the sounds of it bring out soon a soccer mum car and the next wrangler is spose to be

Ford did the 2wd and AWD in the territory, why cant they all give that option?

It would fuck scruby up, but then it wouldnt be $$$$ viable for them to do - it would be easier with ~70%+ of 4wds sold never seeing dirt, to just make them all 2wds .. or would it?

Sell 4wd version for $60k like now, and the 2wd versions for $50k or less. I think that they could be on a winner with the people who only drive them to "be safer", or higherup to perve on slags in Scarlets...

Good point bogged, i think ford made a wise decision to offer AWD and RWD as it will spend 99.9% on the road same as most of the playdo's and poojero's - mummy shopping trolley's.

TuffRR wrote:

Tiny wrote:nissan has picked up a heap of the mine business as they are live axle so I reckon they will stick to live axle for a while yet

Sales to mines would only make a small percentage of total sales. The majority of sales go to soccer mums who want a large 4x4 to handle like a falcon or commodore. Without a doubt, the next model patrol will have at least IFS.

You'd be very surprised dude. A mate of mine runs gas pipeline projects in Russia, Georgia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and a couple of other remote and extreme weather parts of the world. He demands that the head contractor provides Nissan Patrols (us. about 30-50 vehicles) as they're the only thing that can handle 46C+ to -40C, and the terrain encountered aswell.

George is only one of thousands of project managers throughout the world who need capable 4by's for construction, mining and piping projects throughout the world. Not to mention the UN and other military groups.

a big factor is the availability of spares and repairs. everyone in aus runs toyota's cause you can find parts for the bastards everywhere. we tried defenders, pootrols and landbruisers. all of them had their faults somewhere, but the landbruisers were easier to find support for. some times you'd be out back of nowhere and you'd offer some cocky 50bucks for the springs off an old bruiser under a tree and you'd be out of the shit. not to mention all the crews run toymota's.

if they're gonna keep offering better offroad vehicles for big remote area projects they need to have the support there to maintain them. i don't care which brand they are, they all cop the same abuse and they all yeild. so i reckon it's a bit more than just having the vehicle on offer.

but i agree that oil/gas industry and mining use a lot more vehicles than you'd think, not only that but they go through the vehicles quicker too and demand more spare parts.

apart from that rant, i've never driven an IFS 4b, is there really that much difference??? or was it offered and everyone is jumping on cause it's an easy sell to soccer mums??? was the only real difference the fact they offered it which made their vehicle better. now eveybody offers ifs/irs so they're all back to brand loyalty??? in the city, you can get support for any vehicle so it's hard to stand out from the pack.

just thinking aloud

rangemann wrote:
apart from that rant, i've never driven an IFS 4b, is there really that much difference??? or was it offered and everyone is jumping on cause it's an easy sell to soccer mums??? was the only real difference the fact they offered it which made their vehicle better. now eveybody offers ifs/irs so they're all back to brand loyalty??? in the city, you can get support for any vehicle so it's hard to stand out from the pack.

just thinking aloud

I've never either, but was camping up at wattos and a friend came in his newish work dunnydore. IFS/IRS IIRC (howz that for accronyms ), anyway, the dirt road in was bumpy and corrugated and painful as hell for driver (me in live axle 4B) and passenger, and i had to drive slow for it to be bearable. Then we went into town in the commo and it was like driving on tar

I think the basic idea with IFS is that if one wheel hits a bump in a live axle, the shock travels through each side of the car/axle, and it travells further, so the 'bump' lasts longer... but in IFS each side is independant of eachother so when one side hits a bump the other doesn't move, and that one side can move down/up and back to normal ride position much easier... i think

Well my fleet co-ordinator told me today that none of the big players will be making wagons anymore as they are all going to have either AWD or RWD things like the Territory.
Holden has a new one coming out soonish name started with a C
Ford have the Territory
Toyota don't know but the camry wagon is gone
Subaru have forrester and outback
Mitubishi not sure but wagons gone

So all of the protests against the soccer mum 4x4s was all in vain (not that i participated).
Apparently the premier is shitty because he doesn't want to have our government logo on things like Ford Territorys because they are upmarket priced and it looks like a waste of money in the public eye.
So there you go

What we need is someone to start building/importing a vehicle like the old willys jeeps, or internationale scout, or an old 40. bare as rough as guts A/T vehicle. 2 live axles, a big donk, big tyres, and lots of clearance. All standard. Easy to replace parts, like kevlar panels, Dana diffs etc. Not making em into rock crawlers from the factory, but atleast they'd have the potential. Just target them to mining/agri/military and government, when Nissan/yota pull out of the real 4b range this new 4B will have 100% market share... looks like a great opportunity, I just whish i had a lazy few hundred mill to go into production

DiStuRBeD wrote:what the topic says, like dogs who are confined to teh showring generally degenerate, i see the same thing happening with 4bys, newer models made to look good, and handle better onroad, with not as much importance put onto offroad ability

will we see a degeneration of 4bys in years to come?

I think it doesn't matter how capable a 4wd off the factory floor, a large percentage of us will still have to modify them, "to make them better" with personal touches etc. There's a bit of "Tim the Tool Man" in all of us, we are never satisfied with OEM but manufacturers will continue to cater for market demand ($$$$) they have created an image through advertising over the years of car like comfort and qualities in a big safe fun 4wd/AWD to gain more sales especially from soccer mums and the like, plus they are always under pressure from various bodies to "tone down" the big bad "monster truck" image.
Medium and hardcore 4wdrivers only make up a small percentage of the whole 4wd scene so it's not surprising that manufacturers are producing a higher percentage of softroaders these days which means one things for sure: Aftermarket manufacturers are going to be around for a long time yet