Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Went to a 4wd center out of interest this afternoon. Asked for a quote on a lift. For a 45mm lift, looking at $1730 plus labour.

what is the best and yet cheapest way to achieve all round lift on a feroza. I know you can wind the torsion bars up front, but what about the rears. looking at a 1-2" lift.

hehe, i luve 4WD centre's.. go back, tell em you'd like them to take thier pricing, wrap in a neat little bundle, and shove it u......... you know the rest

Was it suspension lift or bodylift? If it was BL just go suspension its easier/cheaper, better and usually safer IMO. Wind up front torsion bars, and get new, lifted rear springs fitted. Springs shouldn't be more than 150-200 ea... think I paid under 700 for all 4 for me. Then pay a mechanic to put em in, shouldn't be more than a couple of hundred in labour. Good idea to replace the 'spring bushes' too.... i dunno about IFS models, you might want to get new longer coils for the front too, and new longer shocks. With rear springs+bushes+mechs labour should be around 6-700 max. Then if you get new shockers your looking at atleast another 5-600. Coils might be a bit under 100 each for the front but someone else here will tell you if you need them or not.

Cheapest rear lift is to find a suitable donor vehicle with 6mm (for Narrow Track IIRC) width leaf springs. Pull you leaf pack apart and replace as much as necessary with springs from the donor vehicle. Not sure where you are, but in Australia the HQ-HZ Holden utes are a good choice.

Extended shackles in combo with the new springs will help provide lift and flex. Get a set of Rancho shocks or similar longer travel ones to make sure your shocks don't limit your down-travel.

I've been too busy the last few weeks to get around to doing the next stage of mine (Wide Track), but should get around to it soon and have some pics up once it's done.

If you're in Aus, then go to Repco. You can buy the rear springs (They're Ironman brand) and install them yourself. To change them over, just jack up the vehicle and support it on stands. Undo the U-bolts on the axle, then the front bolt that holds the leaf spring on, then the rear. If the bolts are hard to undo, squirt 'em with WD-40 and whack you spanner with a big hammer/mallet.

I think you've got a Narrow Track, so can anybody help with a donor vehicle for longer shackles?????

Out of interest, where are you located?

RockyF70 wrote:If it was BL just go suspension its easier/cheaper, better and usually safer IMO..

Easier to do.. yes, to an extent.

As he has been quoted, i dont think a body lift will be much harder than replacing the leaves and installing the new set of torsion bars... its much of a muchness... if you leave stock torsions in, it becomes much easier to do.

With a suspension lift you will lose suspension travel - so its by no means better than a bodylift. Also, harsher ride.

Cheaper is not always the case either.. if you are using 'new' leaves(which i would do), a bodylift is much cheaper. New torsion bars as he was quoted blow it out of the water (over $500 supplied).
Suspension lifts usually require longer shocks or shock spacers.

Safety - a Body lift doesn't raise the centre of gravity as much as a suspension lift does, so i don't know how safety is a factor.

If I had a Fez - I would make up extended shackles and wind up the standard torsion bars to begin with, and invest in some Rancho shocks and go from there. Cheapest option is always good

HotFourOk wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:If it was BL just go suspension its easier/cheaper, better and usually safer IMO..

Easier to do.. yes, to an extent.

As he has been quoted, i dont think a body lift will be much harder than replacing the leaves and installing the new set of torsion bars... its much of a muchness... if you leave stock torsions in, it becomes much easier to do.

With a suspension lift you will lose suspension travel - so its by no means better than a bodylift. Also, harsher ride.
Cheaper is not always the case either.. if you are using 'new' leaves(which i would do), a bodylift is much cheaper. New torsion bars as he was quoted blow it out of the water (over $500 supplied).
Suspension lifts usually require longer shocks or shock spacers.

Safety - a Body lift doesn't raise the centre of gravity as much as a suspension lift does, so i don't know how safety is a factor.

If I had a Fez - I would make up extended shackles and wind up the standard torsion bars to begin with, and invest in some Rancho shocks and go from there. Cheapest option is always good

Que?????

A half decent suspension lift will usually improve ride and flex.

AJFeroza wrote: Que?????
A half decent suspension lift will usually improve ride and flex.

If you wind up or upgrade the torsion bars, there will be more resistance to flexing due to the higher effective spring rates. Thus it wont articulate as well.

Also, as you lift the front suspension, the CV shaft angle increases and the control arm becomes nearer to its bumpstop.
For example - The bumpstop is 3" clear of the control arm standard. If you lift the front 2", you will only have that 1" of travel remaining.
Also, the CV shafts/joints may reach the limit of thier travel also.

To combat this, you can lower the front diff and install ball joint spacers, but that is getting into more detailed modifications than a simple suspension lift.

Aahhhh, now I follow you Grasshopper.

OK, I was talking rear lift.

Front end flex shouldn't be affected by winding up torsion bars. It will improve if you remove your sway bar and shave your bumpstops.

Ah ok, yeh rear lift is beneficial due to the solid axel setup. Some people have clamied less articulation when they fit very stiff aftermarket rear leaves though, so best to ask around.

Although IFS doesn't have the best flex to begin with.. wheel drop is severly limited by winding up torsion bars.

You gain more uptravel, while losing downtravel. This occurs as you are moving from the centre of the suspension setup.

Although you can shave the lower bumpstops, the upper bumpstops are too small to begin with, and shaving is no real benefit.
To regain some drop, you need to use balljoint spacers to raise the height of the upper control arm, as this is the one usually causing the trouble.
If you also lower the diff, you can nearly reset it to factory angles for CV's and control arms even though it is lifted. Bit more work involved though.

I know this because it is happening to mine

OK, to give you an idea of what you can do with the Feroza for very little money (about $50 and a case of beer), here are a couple of my flex pics. While it's nowhere near as good flex as my old Vitara, I've had the Feroza in places I probably wouldn't be comfortable takin the Vit. And it was a lot cheaper to achieve the lift. The front actually tucks eve better than shown in the pic, but that was the biggest rock I could find at the time.

Nice bit of front A Bar/bumperage there AJ. Custom built or aftermarket?

Jon.

AJFeroza wrote: I think you've got a Narrow Track, so can anybody help with a donor vehicle for longer shackles?????

Out of interest, where are you located?

Ah. Yah, its a NT.
Located in Coffs Harbour, 2450. It's unfortunate to be far away from anything and more importantly anyone who can lift for beer. I've got 2.5 6 packs of pale ale in the fridge that could go to good use.

By the way, I was parked between two feroza II sxp's yesterday, and had a look at the leaf packs. Not sure if its normal, but they had 4-into-2/3 leafs and ive got 2-into-2, with a lot of space. I took some crummy camera phone photo's to illustrate.

SXP II leaf pack. can see 4 stacked into 2/3 long i think.




My feroza leaf pack. looks like 2 long. and nothing stacked on it. can see alot of room between the leafs and their bracket in the stack. maybe some missing?

There is no missing my friend just that your feroza is a 97 model and the other 92 to 95. Yours has been modified to fit better on road and the older ones to lift more weight. Thats why yours has less rear leefs.

I thought narrow tracks were older and wide tracks were newer?

HotFourOk wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:If it was BL just go suspension its easier/cheaper, better and usually safer IMO..

Easier to do.. yes, to an extent.

As he has been quoted, i dont think a body lift will be much harder than replacing the leaves and installing the new set of torsion bars... its much of a muchness... if you leave stock torsions in, it becomes much easier to do.

With a suspension lift you will lose suspension travel - so its by no means better than a bodylift. Also, harsher ride.

Cheaper is not always the case either.. if you are using 'new' leaves(which i would do), a bodylift is much cheaper. New torsion bars as he was quoted blow it out of the water (over $500 supplied).
Suspension lifts usually require longer shocks or shock spacers.

Safety - a Body lift doesn't raise the centre of gravity as much as a suspension lift does, so i don't know how safety is a factor.

If I had a Fez - I would make up extended shackles and wind up the standard torsion bars to begin with, and invest in some Rancho shocks and go from there. Cheapest option is always good

With a BL you get absolutely no more/less flexation.... so even with the front loosing down travell on an IFS rig (invented for shopping), the gained rear travel/flex will greatly outweigh this. The only reason for bodylift is to clear better tyres. It doesn't help flex, nor does it help ramp-over as your chassis rails are still the lowest point. On some cars it MIGHT help departure/approach angles but if you have a bullbar and/or towbar these will still be the same height, so no clearance gained. Plus BL is harder cause you gotta check that your steering shaft is long enough, fab new longer bullbar brackets, and then you still might need longer brake lines... but prolly not with only 2". And BL wont be cheaper unless you DIY. A 4x4 store will still charge ludacris amounts. But if your DIYing both you may as well go Suspension lift as its far better and only about 2-300 more. and less stuffing about IMO

HotFourOk wrote:I thought narrow tracks were older and wide tracks were newer?

No just a model introduction during their production. They continued Narrow tracks in both Rocky and Ferozas practically to the models deaths, they even made Narrow Track SWB Rockys up until 1998 (2.8 Diesel, solid front axle), try and find one of those.

RockyF70 wrote: With a BL you get absolutely no more/less flexation.... so even with the front loosing down travell on an IFS rig (invented for shopping), the gained rear travel/flex will greatly outweigh this.

Flexation... hmm okay lol

As i said previously, stiffer rear springs may hinder flex. Did u read that?
So it depends on how you alter the rear suspension.

RockyF70 wrote:rear travel/flex will greatly outweigh this

So, because it is outweighed, does that mean my rig is better than yours... because my coil rear makes up for my IFS front??
That is what you have just claimed Nathan.

hmm. okay, so the leafs are like that becuase its designed to be. It's a 94 model, by the way

So what are the steps to take and the cost involved in lifting the car?

The cheapest method is to:
FRONT - wind up your torsion bars
REAR - Extend your shackles OR find springs from wreckers as AJ said. Use a HQ Holden Ute leaf.

You then may need to buy some new shocks as they will limit travel.

The easiest method is to:
Go to the 4wd shop and let them lift your car.
You can get the rear leaves done and get them to wind up the torsion bars. You don't really need to replace them as they are over $500. You also can get away with just buying the rear shocks.. do fronts later.

So... if you are quite handy - Use the first option.

If you want new rear springs and know a bit about the car - use the second option, but install it yourself.

If you dont have a clue - Save up and let the 4x4 shop do it for you

HotFourOk wrote:
If you dont have a clue - Save up for a few cases of beer and get people on this forum to help you:D

I think thats what you ment to say

HotFourOk wrote:

RockyF70 wrote: With a BL you get absolutely no more/less flexation.... so even with the front loosing down travell on an IFS rig (invented for shopping), the gained rear travel/flex will greatly outweigh this.

Flexation... hmm okay lol
As i said previously, stiffer rear springs may hinder flex. Did u read that?
So it depends on how you alter the rear suspension.

I like making up words . And I was talking about BL. How stiff/soft the suspension is never came into it. I was in fact replying to this statement, (as this is only with IFS rigs that you loose uptravel):

HotFourOk wrote:With a suspension lift you will lose suspension travel - so its by no means better than a bodylift. Also, harsher ride.

when my SOLID AXLE rig got sus lift, it flexed better both ways Such benifits that IFS users as yourself shall never have the pleasure of knowing

HotFourOk wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:rear travel/flex will greatly outweigh this

So, because it is outweighed, does that mean my rig is better than yours... because my coil rear makes up for my IFS front??
That is what you have just claimed Nathan.

Again, read my above quoted statement in context. I said that any flex lost up front on an IFS vehicle, will be more than compensated by the gained flex in the rear ON THAT VEHICLE! So, a suspension lifted IFS will be better than a stock IFS in generall, as even though you loose up front down travel, you GAIN rear up/down travel.
Nowhere did I say that a IFS rig with lifted rear springs (coil or leaf) will be superior to a solid, with lifted springs front AND rear. Solids just flex better, accept it

I think you are very off topic

CockyF70 wrote:when my SOLID AXLE rig got sus lift, it flexed better both ways

Do we care? Its still slow and old

RockyF70 wrote:

HotFourOk wrote:
If you dont have a clue - Save up for a few cases of beer and get people on this forum to help you:D

I think thats what you ment to say

HotFourOk wrote:

RockyF70 wrote: With a BL you get absolutely no more/less flexation.... so even with the front loosing down travell on an IFS rig (invented for shopping), the gained rear travel/flex will greatly outweigh this.

Flexation... hmm okay lol
As i said previously, stiffer rear springs may hinder flex. Did u read that?
So it depends on how you alter the rear suspension.

I like making up words . And I was talking about BL. How stiff/soft the suspension is never came into it. I was in fact replying to this statement, (as this is only with IFS rigs that you loose uptravel):

HotFourOk wrote:With a suspension lift you will lose suspension travel - so its by no means better than a bodylift. Also, harsher ride.

when my SOLID AXLE rig got sus lift, it flexed better both ways Such benifits that IFS users as yourself shall never have the pleasure of knowing

HotFourOk wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:rear travel/flex will greatly outweigh this

So, because it is outweighed, does that mean my rig is better than yours... because my coil rear makes up for my IFS front??
That is what you have just claimed Nathan.

Again, read my above quoted statement in context. I said that any flex lost up front on an IFS vehicle, will be more than compensated by the gained flex in the rear ON THAT VEHICLE! So, a suspension lifted IFS will be better than a stock IFS in generall, as even though you loose up front down travel, you GAIN rear up/down travel.
Nowhere did I say that a IFS rig with lifted rear springs (coil or leaf) will be superior to a solid, with lifted springs front AND rear. Solids just flex better, accept it

Depending on spring rate and shock lengths, it is possibly to loose uptravel in any vehicle when the suspension is changed, IFS ORS or solid axle. When a bodylift is installed, true no more suspension flex is achived, but on the other hand, you tyres that were stuffed hard into the guards now turn freely and dont cut themselves to bits on the pannels. In turn, you are able to further modify the suspesion to allow for more flex, so while a body lift is not essentially an increase in atriculation, it can sometimes allow for it. As for losing suspesion travel at the front being outweighed by the gain in the rear, sometimes yes, but not always the case. No downtravel in the front end can make the rig very wheel happy on steep climbs, and once it lifts a wheel, say goodbye to traction. Also on the road you will notice reduced handling as a result. You would be better off trying to achive a balanced medium between travel and height, front to back. You rig will feel much better off and on road, and will go further too.

Layto....

My experiences with a '92 narrow track Feroza:

Bought lifted rear leaf springs (can't remember brand but a search will reveal all.....) Fitted them and wound up the front torsion bars. Ride was ridiculously hard with next to no flex in the rear; front was also lacking. I could feel the front end maxing out over bumps on road. The inside rear tyre would regularly spin around roundabouts. I would literally get launched out of the driver's seat over moderate bumps on road!?

Ended up removing one leaf from the pack and replaced the "railway sleeper" overload leaf with the one from my factory pack. Height was reduced from around 50mm to around half that, but the ride is still very firm (but liveable on a daily driver.) Wound the front down slightly and got rid of the front maxing out on bumps.

Now, to learn from this experience cost me in the vicinity of $700, just for the rear springs and bushes!? To say I was a bit peeved at the time is an understatement. Ultimately I reckon my best option could be to place the leaf I removed from my mega dollar pack into the factory originals and try that out.

Moral of the story? Mega dollar supposedly quality springs can suck and most lift options will decrease flex and give a crap ride. Choose carefully.

murcod wrote:My experiences with a '92 narrow track Feroza:

Bought lifted rear leaf springs (can't remember brand but a search will reveal all.....) Fitted them and wound up the front torsion bars. Ride was ridiculously hard with next to no flex in the rear; front was also lacking. I could feel the front end maxing out over bumps on road. The inside rear tyre would regularly spin around roundabouts. I would literally get launched out of the driver's seat over moderate bumps on road!?

Ended up removing one leaf from the pack and replaced the "railway sleeper" overload leaf with the one from my factory pack. Height was reduced from around 50mm to around half that, but the ride is still very firm (but liveable on a daily driver.) Wound the front down slightly and got rid of the front maxing out on bumps.

Now, to learn from this experience cost me in the vicinity of $700, just for the rear springs and bushes!? To say I was a bit peeved at the time is an understatement. Ultimately I reckon my best option could be to place the leaf I removed from my mega dollar pack into the factory originals and try that out.

Moral of the story? Mega dollar supposedly quality springs can suck and most lift options will decrease flex and give a crap ride. Choose carefully.

:(

I hope this isnt the standard. Seeing people with their lifted 'roza's makes me sad to be so close to the ground. Lift = happy, but $$$ = sad.

Its like a paradox, eh?

So if i get some hq/hz use leafs and drop them in and wind up the bars, but not too high... we should come up okay?

Fearhoza wrote:Went to a 4wd center out of interest this afternoon. Asked for a quote on a lift. For a 45mm lift, looking at $1730 plus labour.

what is the best and yet cheapest way to achieve all round lift on a feroza. I know you can wind the torsion bars up front, but what about the rears. looking at a 1-2" lift.

i just took the 1.5" shackles off my jeep, cranked the bars and went wheelin. don't have jack for down travel in the front, but, all kinds of STUFF in the rear. drove it daily for a year like this and wheel the shit outta the thing on the weekends,given, it was a bit stiffer ride on the street, but not bad.haven't so much as ripped a cv boot(now with that said, the whole thing will probably explode)
i did this just to get by till i could do a solid axle install, but, every thing is still holding together. best $35 dollar lift i've ever done.

rockzilla wrote:i just took the 1.5" shackles off my jeep

Does this mean you replaced your Feroza shackles with Jeep ones?

Have a combination of both options - aftermarket rear leaves and shocks to boost ride height, tyre clearance and articulation and aftermarket bars in the front - set to normal height. Front of body lifted by blocks to give clearance for tyres.

Seems to be an OK compromise for the IFS front - reasonable travel in both directions with front tyre clearance. Avoids most of the issues described by others - although doesn't have quite as much clearance under the sumpguard as can be achieved by winding the front right up.

can you do 1/2 a bodylift ... legally/safely?

MightyMouse wrote:Have a combination of both options - aftermarket rear leaves and shocks to boost ride height, tyre clearance and articulation and aftermarket bars in the front - set to normal height. Front of body lifted by blocks to give clearance for tyres.

Seems to be an OK compromise for the IFS front - reasonable travel in both directions with front tyre clearance. Avoids most of the issues described by others - although doesn't have quite as much clearance under the sumpguard as can be achieved by winding the front right up.

MightyMouse wrote:Have a combination of both options - aftermarket rear leaves and shocks to boost ride height, tyre clearance and articulation and aftermarket bars in the front - set to normal height. Front of body lifted by blocks to give clearance for tyres.

Seems to be an OK compromise for the IFS front - reasonable travel in both directions with front tyre clearance. Avoids most of the issues described by others - although doesn't have quite as much clearance under the sumpguard as can be achieved by winding the front right up.

double .

Layto....