Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi everyone. Great site, I've learnt a lot in a few short hours. But I still need some help with my real basic question:

What 4x4s have lower than average fuel consumption (in dollar terms), in my price bracket of $6-9k?

Fuel costs will be the main way to sell the idea of a 4by to the missus. She also demands that it be auto and no gas. It should probably also have back seats (i.e. wagon or dual cab ute). A/C and P/S would be preferred.

It will be used for my short daily commute (8 km/10-30 minutes each way in traffic), plus occasional weekends away in farm paddocks/bush or state forests (shooting) -- i.e. offroad ability to improve access, not really offroading just for the fun of it. To start with it will only be a few weekends a year but if my wish to move out of the city comes off it should be more often than that especially as the kids grow up.

I initially thought of a Vitara or a Feroza, but from what I read on here they chew 9-11 l/100km, which is about the same as the 2.4-2.8L diesels (hilux, triton, etc) according to a fella on another forum. Diesel is a bit more expensive but only about 10% more right which is nothing really when you think it just makes it the equivalent of 10-12 l/100km of petrol.

If this is right then I may as well go for one of the 2.x diesels. Haven't been in a vitata or feroza but if they're anything like the Sierra, I find them a bit too buzzboxy. Plus I'm interested in biodiesel and veg oil so if I get a diesel that opens up that possibility too. Plus the 2.xs tend to be a bit bigger in the body than 1.xs so probably safer in an accident.

Am I on the right track or is there something else I should consider?

The Rover tdi (Disco/Defender) is a pretty economical engine, but I don't know if you'll get one in your price range.

The Triton 2.8 is N/A (in your price range) and I'm not sure it's particularly economical. Earlier models may have had 2.5 turbo, which may be more economical.

Surf?

Good luck,

Scott

Just an extra thought for you to consider: diesels typically require more servicing (thus more $$$) than their petrol counterparts.

Sierra?

of4x4 wrote:Just an extra thought for you to consider: diesels typically require more servicing (thus more $$$) than their petrol counterparts.

true, but u would get more k's out of it, so if its a long term investmetn its worth it

also if you can get bio diesel then u save quite a bit in fuel, so will get short term gain as well

Vitaras and ferozas are not as buzzboxy as sierras.

I've seen a few Pathfinders on gas; I reckon they would have to be very economical.

Buy a mid 80's Rangie on gas for around $5k ... should be a good one for that ... then spend the remaining $3k on other things ... lockers etc

Thanks fellas but the missus says "No Gas" , not negotiable

midnight wrote:Sierra?

Sierra's are not as economical as everyone thinks, especially when you put some descent ift and tyres+gears into them. There is a thread or two in the sierra section on ecenomy if your intested.
Layto....

good ol subarus;)

russell2pi wrote:Thanks fellas but the missus says "No Gas" , not negotiable

Wht is she so anti gas?

russell2pi wrote:Thanks fellas but the missus says "No Gas" , not negotiable

Really? Why is that? What's wrong with Gas? I've had plenty of gas powered cars over the years and never had a problem. One even caught on fire and still the gas didn't cause any problems. One of the fire officers that attended told me they can be cherry red and still not explode ... they just vent until the pressure reduces (so he said anyway).

Just had an idea .. how about a Midi BJ74 with the factory 13BT? A mate of mine has one for sale .. 13bt, front and rear lockers, lifted etc .. not new but still a good car for $7500. I think it uses around 9 litres per 100 kms .. bloody cheap for a fourby.

Cheers
Simo

what sorta 4b is that?

Fatz2326 wrote:what sorta 4b is that?

Mid wheelbase (BJ73) toyota landcruiser.

My vote would be to go for a diesel hilux/4runner, SWB/MWB diesel Landcruiser (with the 3B/13BT/14BT) or diesel Bundera (LJ70).

-Stu

ta, yeah I'm leaning towards a diesel 4runner or hilux surf after reading everyone's comments. A bit worried about the insurance premiums for surfs though even for a 29 & 34 yo rating 1 drivers.

As for gas, those of you who need ask "why" must not be married . She thinks its dangerous. No amount of theory of combustability of petrol gases or stories of playing with lpg, petrol and fire as a teenager will convince her otherwise . Never mind, I quite like the idea of a diesel.

russell2pi wrote:Thanks fellas but the missus says "No Gas" , not negotiable

trade the missus in on a lower maintanance jobby... then get what YOU like.

[quote="russell2pi"]
It will be used for my short daily commute (8 km/10-30 minutes each way in traffic)
[quote]

Diesels get worse economy when used on short trips compared to petrol, as they require the operating temp to be reached to be efficient. By running them cold, you use more fuel, as complete combustion is not evident.

What about a Jimny... The Mrs would probably like it, insurance is cheap, good mileage, and they go pretty well offroad. More modern than a Sierra also

It comes down to how much space do you need? I was looking at Feroza's when i bought my Rocky, and the lugagge space was not big enough for my needs, so I took the next step up. With that I got a 2.8 intercooled turbo diesel. Power is never an issue, and my mileage is pretty good for a bit heavier car.

Anything heavy is not going to get really good mileage..
And people dont normally buy a 4x4 for low maintenece/running costs

Or why dont you buy a big donk and ride to work

HotFourOk wrote: Diesels get worse economy when used on short trips compared to petrol, as they require the operating temp to be reached to be efficient. By running them cold, you use more fuel, as complete combustion is not evident.

I was under the assumption they run less efficiently - same fuel for less power, as opposed to more fuel for same power.

You'll just get there slower!

City driving isn't good for diesel's, however i don't think you'd kill it.

Like HotFourOk said, get a bike whilst your still young!

-Stu

Cant go past a Disco TDI 300. Series 1. Finished being made 1998 I think. Ours was a gem, beautifully finished interior, the misus would be pleased. Fuel consumption in our Auto was between 9 and 11 litres per 100 kms if driven sensibly. A good size vehicle for family use, seats 5 comfy with plenty off wagon space. The feroza and sierra are good vehicle but are small with little room in back and will cost the same dollars as the disco having far more comfort. Late 80's and early 90's models had lots of issues thus the reason why they are such good value now. (50 odd grand or more new back then) Make sure you get a latter model series 1 TDI 300 not 200, close to 98 as you can ours was a 95. Absolutly oursome off road. The AUTO transmission is a ripper very solid and almost unbreakable. Ours had 250000 kms one owner full service history, oil changes every 5000km belt replaced every 70000kms. The TDi can run a little hot if so get the radiator flushed best $400 you will spend, ours was full of gunk, will saved a bugged head. They all leak oil, thats part of being a landrover owner. You should pic one up for somewhere between $6000 and $10000 max, do your homework and only purchase with service history and if possible one or 2 owners that way you can be sure that they have fixed any issues along the way also should satisfy that its been a good vehicle. Get a good one and you will be a part of the landrover fan club for ever if ya get lemon well . So I reckon get a Disco TDI do your homework and you will do well.

dogbreath_48 wrote:

HotFourOk wrote: Diesels get worse economy when used on short trips compared to petrol, as they require the operating temp to be reached to be efficient. By running them cold, you use more fuel, as complete combustion is not evident.

I was under the assumption they run less efficiently - same fuel for less power, as opposed to more fuel for same power.

Not necessarily the injectors pumping more fuel in (its the same), but it requires more fuel to get to the same speed, and you put your foot down a lot more when they're cold to get them going.

Eg - A 50km/h hill near me I go up in 4th at half throttle normally... When I've just started the Rocky, I am in 3rd gear flat to the floor to keep at the speed... hence i will use more fuel.

Either way, you cant kill them

I would go a import BJ74 cause they came with an auto, check this one out on the overlander forum. http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=37373

Andy

x2 on the Rocky. Around town i regularly get between 10-12L/100 in my NA 2.8 diesel, depending on how I drive it. 2 door but 5 seats, and are a great 1st 4x4... havent killed mine yet but damn i've tried

Those who suggested I trade in the missus, I'm sorely tempted at the moment. She's trying to argue that we can't afford another car or that at least we have to get a loan rather than exhaust our savings!! A bit of the slap in the face after a lucky escape from a pushbike accident yesteday which is the whole reason for a new vehicle -- the pb was my daily commuter. So for those who said get a (motor)bike, no bloody way, this accident was scary enough at 30 km/h but I luckily walked away from the hospital with just a few grazes and a headache that's still there. At 60 km/h I could well have been totalled, so no, no more pushbike and no motorbike

Anyway back on topic, hmm a few more interesting suggestions there. I hadn't thought about the old SWB cruisers and Discos I thought would be in rubbish quality in this price range!?

Consider the Disco cause you will find that 9 out 10 have been owned by people that have not done much off road work if any, where as SWB cruisers would have predominantly been used for both. Go and take a look at one and buy yourself Buying Used by 4wd monthly 4WD GUIDE get a real good acurate rap.

If I had to by second hand again, would by a disco in a heartbeat

My wifes car is straight LPG. Much cleaner at the servo and easier. Just screw it on and when its full it stops. Id tell her to wake up to herself or better yet show her this thread.

Most probably the main reason is women like to spend money, Not save it . Diesels cost more to maintain than petrols.


Cheers

russell2pi wrote:ta, yeah I'm leaning towards a diesel 4runner or hilux surf after reading everyone's comments. A bit worried about the insurance premiums for surfs though even for a 29 & 34 yo rating 1 drivers.

As for gas, those of you who need ask "why" must not be married . She thinks its dangerous. No amount of theory of combustability of petrol gases or stories of playing with lpg, petrol and fire as a teenager will convince her otherwise . Never mind, I quite like the idea of a diesel.

Hey Russell

You're wrong there. I'm married .. have been for 13 years quite happily too I might add. My lovely wife has never had a problem with Gas powered cars ... we've had plenty of them over the years .. she actually likes the fact that they used to be (and still are relatively) cheap to run. Sell your partner on the benefits of LPG ... like the fact that the more you save on fuel the more you have for other niceties in life ... hell you can even spend some more on her ... surely she can't argue with that

Also LPG is (or should be) transport approved ... taxis have been running on them since Adam was a boy ... surely she's been for a taxi ride at some stage? Really there is nothing to worry about if it's been fitted and maintained properly. The story I mentioned before of my LPG powered Rangie going up in flames ... the fire was caused by a fuel leak that came down to the mechanic that rebuilt the carbys 7 days beforehand leaving the fuel line undone/loose .. nothing to do with the LPG at all and everything to do with poor or shoddy maintenance.

Oh and personally I would avoid the surfs ... the 2 people that I know who have had them (yes this is a "friend of mine" story and not my actual experience however i will tell it to you anyway) have had nothing but trouble with their respective surfs. In addition, insurance costs are very high and some insurers won't touch them. If you must have a diesel then go the BJ73/74 or whatever they are called .. the Midi.

Cheers
Simo

I've actually had the fun of running with a burning bbq gas tank through a caravan park due to a split hose.

Just turned the water tap on it, put out the flames then shut off the gas. No problem at all.


Gas is safe. Damn safe. Way way safer than petrol.

Taxi drivers have so many more accidents than normal cars, yet they all run on LPG. You dont hear fo taxis exploding though do you?


There is absolutely NO risk of explosion until the fire has well and truly cooked you alive anyway in an LPG gas car.

The circumstances where a car's LPG gas tank would actually explode generally would require a dual fuel car, where the petrol tank has already ruptured, spilt fuel everywhere and is on fire.




As an owner of a Vitara previously, the cheaper running costs and the get up and go are both way beyond what a diesel (or even a petrol 4 cyl) hilux or surf can provide. The v6 is not far behind on fuel consumption than the 1.6.

I too would steer people from the surf, since I've never seen anyone get anything but trouble out of one. If you have to, get an aussie spec 4runner and save yourself insurance costs.

russell2pi wrote:ta, yeah I'm leaning towards a diesel 4runner or hilux surf after reading everyone's comments. A bit worried about the insurance premiums for surfs though even for a 29 & 34 yo rating 1 drivers.

As for gas, those of you who need ask "why" must not be married . She thinks its dangerous. No amount of theory of combustability of petrol gases or stories of playing with lpg, petrol and fire as a teenager will convince her otherwise . Never mind, I quite like the idea of a diesel.

Most Surf's I've heard of aren't that cheap to run (14/100km or same as V6 4runner) I'd look at a deisel 4runner a turboed one preferably

LPG nozzles are always clean and dry, and the pavement adjacent the bowser is almost always clean. Wander over to the diesel bowser and you'll se that the nozzle is greasy, smelly, and the driveway pavement is soaked. Your hands stink after filling unless you carry a glove around, and diesel is bloody expensive.

Try to convince your missus to go LPG. If not, go for the Disco diesel.

Better still, go buy her a diesel Golf or something.

My missus car and my 4wd are on LPG. My bundy's getting a V8 and thats gonna be gassed too.
Gas rules!
You get about 20% less mileage from gas than petrol and deisel but it still works out cheaper
And gas IS safe and more enviromentally friendly. Petrol related incidences are way higher than LPG percentage wise.
No offence but I think your missus is being a bit paranoid about LPG.