Outer Limits 4x4 Board

just 2 quick questions regarding Turbo700 behind a 350 chev.

torque convertor... can ya run a stock one or are there specific types/sizes/duty ones that are preferred for heavy offroad use...?

secondly... oil cooler... needed or not? if so is there any size thats about what i should be loking for.? the one in the rig atm is very small looking so curious...

can i use an a/c condensor radiator to do this job if i fit it up right? will it be ok or wil it be too big? flow the right way?

screwy

You can get 6 bolt ones that are from behind deseils, they are basically the same converter as stock but a lower stall. Deseils use a six bolt one as a three bolt one will/can sheer the bolts off or they rattle loose (on a deseil)
Run a big cooler as it won't hurt. You can get heaps of aftermarket stuff for these boxes from the states to toughen them up, like input/output shafts etc....
The stall on a standard converter is about 1600-1800rpm, which is a tad high for 4wheeling, around 1000rpm is better, i got mine modded to around 950rpm and it works well. for some reason i recall something about the stall being to high will destroy the box in a 4x4, but i can't remember where i read/heard this

run the biggest cooler you can
as for stall, the bigger the stall the more slip,the more slip the more heat.
slow moving hi load low range= big cooler

Just run a standard convertor having stall to low will cause the engine to stall when you select a gear,just get some one to make it full roller bearing.

you should run a cooler that looks like a small radiator two small tanks on each end and small fins in between these are the most efficent don't get one they call a tub fin as they are crap and dont cool very well.

havent seen a T700 brake convertor bolts off seen them behind many 500hp engines....

havent seen a T700 brake convertor bolts off seen them behind many 500hp engines....

Me neither, Pro converters told me this could happen behind a chev deseil due to low down torque, but more likely rattle loose. I would still be running a low stall though, heaps better offroad, just don't run a big cam or get it modded to around 1200rpm.

what about a lock up convertor? less heat, just dont forget to disengage it before stopping or youll stall the motor

Mine is goig to be modded so it locks up in 2nd,3rd and 4th, when i get arounds to doing it

Have you driven yours yet with the de-stalled converter 6.5 Rangie

screwy, as for the cooler don't use an old aircon core as i would have seen 4-5 boxs fail due to contamination. i cant tell you exactly why but they seem to have a film inside them and once mixed with ATF it just roots the box. as for converter i would go 2000-2500 in a good convertor not just a smaller one, something with modified vane angles, very driveable at 1200-1500, but will flash out to 2000 under big load. something like a TCI towing convertor. plus shift kit the box as it will give you better line pressure and will tend to hunt less in 2nd and 3rd.

Have you driven yours yet with the de-stalled converter 6.5 Rangie

Yeah it goes well, haven't offroaded it though, but its not a dramatic difference between it and the stock one i had in earlier

1MadEngineer wrote:screwy, as for the cooler don't use an old aircon core as i would have seen 4-5 boxs fail due to contamination. i cant tell you exactly why but they seem to have a film inside them and once mixed with ATF it just roots the box. as for converter i would go 2000-2500 in a good convertor not just a smaller one, something with modified vane angles, very driveable at 1200-1500, but will flash out to 2000 under big load. something like a TCI towing convertor. plus shift kit the box as it will give you better line pressure and will tend to hunt less in 2nd and 3rd.

can you recomend any specific shift kits? just a BnM shifter ok? or something specific......

torque converter... i might run the one thats in it at the moment and if it shits itself ill replace it with something abit more beefy...

screwy

Save your cash on the shifter, buy one out of a commodore (VN-VS, v6 or v8)), easy to mod to fit, linkage instead of cable and only about $50.
Stock converter will be fine but i think lowstall is better, my 2c

6.5 rangie wrote:Save your cash on the shifter, buy one out of a commodore (VN-VS, v6 or v8)), easy to mod to fit, linkage instead of cable and only about $50.
Stock converter will be fine but i think lowstall is better, my 2c

well i currently have the standard V8 shifter out of a Vn/VP V8.... seems to work ok... just it looks hella poxy and small for a patrol is all...

shift kits work good in theory firmer shifts ect but you are better off to get some one to increase the size of the clutches witch will give you more holding power and fimer shifts.

The bigger the stall on the convertor the softer the shifts also.

Use kevlar cluthes aswell, only a few bucks more but worth it

Kevlar is a thing of the past the best clutches to use are hi energy ones they are a carbon metal and friction material mix they can handle alot more heat and slip so if you continuosly flog the trans they will stand up to the punishment, where kevlar is a good product but when it gets hot or it slips it becomes glazed and its holding capasity becomes poor so it slides each time the clutch applied they made the hi energy material for convertor clutches where the temp can get to 200 deg to stop slipping ,burning and pealing of the clutch.

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:screwy, as for the cooler don't use an old aircon core as i would have seen 4-5 boxs fail due to contamination. i cant tell you exactly why but they seem to have a film inside them and once mixed with ATF it just roots the box. as for converter i would go 2000-2500 in a good convertor not just a smaller one, something with modified vane angles, very driveable at 1200-1500, but will flash out to 2000 under big load. something like a TCI towing convertor. plus shift kit the box as it will give you better line pressure and will tend to hunt less in 2nd and 3rd.

can you recomend any specific shift kits? just a BnM shifter ok? or something specific......

torque converter... i might run the one thats in it at the moment and if it shits itself ill replace it with something abit more beefy...

screwy

Shift kits are inside the auto itself and alter shift patterns not the actual shifter

and torque convertors rarely shit themself you'll only want to change if the charecteristics are wrong

cloughy wrote:

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:screwy, as for the cooler don't use an old aircon core as i would have seen 4-5 boxs fail due to contamination. i cant tell you exactly why but they seem to have a film inside them and once mixed with ATF it just roots the box. as for converter i would go 2000-2500 in a good convertor not just a smaller one, something with modified vane angles, very driveable at 1200-1500, but will flash out to 2000 under big load. something like a TCI towing convertor. plus shift kit the box as it will give you better line pressure and will tend to hunt less in 2nd and 3rd.

can you recomend any specific shift kits? just a BnM shifter ok? or something specific......

torque converter... i might run the one thats in it at the moment and if it shits itself ill replace it with something abit more beefy...

screwy

Shift kits are inside the auto itself and alter shift patterns not the actual shifter

and torque convertors rarely shit themself you'll only want to change if the charecteristics are wrong

so i can run a new shifter without putting a kit through it?
sorry im just not very teched up on autos... been using manuels all my life

You can run whatever shifter you want, all it does is select gears, but the factory (commodore) ones have less problems than aftermarket cable ones.

6.5 rangie wrote:You can run whatever shifter you want, all it does is select gears, but the factory (commodore) ones have less problems than aftermarket cable ones.

how hard is it to change just the shifter itself over from a stock Vp shifter to a BnM shifter?

ill leave shift kits and torque convertors alone for upgrades for later once the bloody thing is built

Not hard at all, basically just screws to the floor and a cable runs down to the trans and a bracket bolts onto the trans.
Yuo really want a b&m don't you, if you do then i'd probably go the quicksilver as it seems to work best

All those shifters are spawns of the devil, but i know why you want a change the commo shifter is pretty sucky in a patrol it ends up in a shit posy, but B&M's pro-ratchets and the like can be mounted anywhere because of the cable operation, on the roof if the cable was long enough! but sometimes the brackets are pretty crappy and they have to be adjusted well, only thing i think you should do is drive a car with a ratchet shifter to see what you think of it, cause there bastard things until your used to 'em, and no you don't need a shift kit

cloughy wrote:All those shifters are spawns of the devil, but i know why you want a change the commo shifter is pretty sucky in a patrol it ends up in a shit posy, but B&M's pro-ratchets and the like can be mounted anywhere because of the cable operation, on the roof if the cable was long enough! but sometimes the brackets are pretty crappy and they have to be adjusted well, only thing i think you should do is drive a car with a ratchet shifter to see what you think of it, cause there bastard things until your used to 'em, and no you don't need a shift kit

ive used ratchet shifters before... they are ok..... just commodore shifters look really out of proportion and abit ratty in a patrol....

the other reason is that i want to move my auto and motor forward quite abit and want to leave the heater core in there....

with a BnM i would be able to as its cable... i can leave the shifter back much further and move the transword without going straight into my heater box...

its not that i like BnM.... its more its the only brand i know that make the sort of shifter im thinking of.....
as i said, i know manuels..... autos are new territory for me

Buy a copy of street machine, haven't read it for years but there was always heaps of ratchet shifters advertised

Hey screwy, modified toy is the bloke to really ask about all ur probs etc, he owns one of the most reputable auto trans shops in nsw and is well known in the industry for their building and tech abilities, they built my th700 for my hilux (injected 304 commodore motor) and have never had a problem with theyre setup they built for me, just be aware with the B&M shifters, the th350, 400, 700, etc have a long shift between park and reverse (its sorta 1 and a half shifts distance) if u look on ur commodore shifter ull notice that P to R is a bigger distance than say N to D, the B&M shifter say they do turbo series boxes but u still have to stuff around with ste shift distances.

Modified Toy wrote:shift kits work good in theory firmer shifts ect but you are better off to get some one to increase the size of the clutches witch will give you more holding power and fimer shifts.

The bigger the stall on the convertor the softer the shifts also.

My TH350 already has a shift kit in it when I bought it.
Should I leave it in and get bigger clutches or take it out.

Also, would there be any advantage off road of having manual valve body in it?, I've heard the TH's can shift up to 2nd. even when held in 1st.
I had a B&M shifter given to me to use too as I didnt have a shifter.

What's your opinion of lock up convertors for towing and off road steep decents?

cheers, sudso

My TH350 already has a shift kit in it when I bought it.
Should I leave it in and get bigger clutches or take it out.

Also, would there be any advantage off road of having manual valve body in it?, I've heard the TH's can shift up to 2nd. even when held in 1st.
I had a B&M shifter given to me to use too as I didnt have a shifter.

What's your opinion of lock up convertors for towing and off road steep decents?

cheers, sudso

If the trans is going ok leave it alone unless you want more.

Manual valve body's are good but do you need the extra lever to look after aswell,But the best manual valve body to get if you want one are the ones you buy as full manual just they are reverse pattern instead of P R D 3 2 1 they go P R 1 2 3 D advantage would be engine braking

lock up convertors are good for towing as they reduce heat in the transmission when towing but on steep decents not enough holding power to cope with that.

buy as full manual just they are reverse pattern instead of P R D 3 2 1 they go P R 1 2 3 D

where's N neutral?

6.5 rangie wrote:Mine is goig to be modded so it locks up in 2nd,3rd and 4th, when i get arounds to doing it

i read a bit about it on the Patrol forum.... i wouldn't mind doing it to mine also.... might give me another 12 months of trans life. I'm researching at the moment how to do it without having to spend $125 for a few wires and a relay.... let me know how you go with it.

Sorry for the hijack screwy.

carry on lads

sudso wrote:

buy as full manual just they are reverse pattern instead of P R D 3 2 1 they go P R 1 2 3 D

where's N neutral?

it goes P R N 1 2 3 D