Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Who's done this? I want to do it to my TD80 but I've heard conflicting info from people who have had them fitted then removed them 'cos they say the car steers like crap?

I've had a part time povo 80 before and it steered great? What's the difference?

Comments please.

Cheers
Simo

Best mod ever done ( 6 years ago) on my TD80 smoother quiter and less wear and tear.

wally

mine is great...

its definently the best thing ive done to it so far...(besides the fridge)

it steers fine once i fixed the castor from the lift.

Do a search, plenty of info on this.

I also had mine done several years ago. Reduced fuel, more power, less backlash and no wear on the front end.

Money well spent.

mud4b wrote:mine is great...

its definently the best thing ive done to it so far...(besides the fridge)

it steers fine once i fixed the castor from the lift.

Thanks guys ... Mud4By .. I know it's a big ask but since you are a local, do you mind if I came and had a quick drive of your truck around the block? C'mon maaaaate, I did you a good deal on that front locker (wish I had never sold it now )

Simo

I prefer to have permanent all wheel drive.

Emo wrote:I prefer to have permanent all wheel drive.

for what reason(s)?

the part time conversion is quieter, has less backlash, handles better on the road (less understeer, better steering feedback, less tram-lining on cupped/excessively cambered roads, better brake response), allows higher suspension lift without driveline vibration, is less likely to lose traction on slightly slippery surfaces or when taking off hard in a corner, uses less fuel, needs less effort to steer, and if you do if by using a part time transfer case (which is probably cheaper than a conversion kit) gets rid of that pesky electrical shifter which can go bad at the most inopportune time.

Do it, Simo, you won't regret it. you may want to invest in a wheel alignment afterwards, the all wheel drive can mask some fromt axle alignment issues especially caster and toe problems.

best mod I have done yet and only took 2 1/2 hours to fit I did have acess to a hoist though Use the marks kit

dumbdunce wrote:

Emo wrote:I prefer to have permanent all wheel drive.

for what reason(s)?

the part time conversion is quieter, has less backlash, handles better on the road (less understeer, better steering feedback, less tram-lining on cupped/excessively cambered roads, better brake response), allows higher suspension lift without driveline vibration, is less likely to lose traction on slightly slippery surfaces or when taking off hard in a corner, uses less fuel, needs less effort to steer, and if you do if by using a part time transfer case (which is probably cheaper than a conversion kit) gets rid of that pesky electrical shifter which can go bad at the most inopportune time.

Do it, Simo, you won't regret it. you may want to invest in a wheel alignment afterwards, the all wheel drive can mask some fromt axle alignment issues especially caster and toe problems.

I disagee that it handles worse on the road. My Landcruiser handles better than the other part time 4wd's I owned or driven. It is different and does drive differently but driving on bitumen (which is where they spend most of there time) I reckon it gives better traction. I don't care if it's quieter. I'm deaf and the wife tells me the BFG M/T's are noisy enough. I don't see how you reckon that it is less likely to lose traction on slippery surfaces or taking off hard in a corner? You don't think that driving both front and rear gives better traction?

Emo wrote:
I disagee that it handles worse on the road. My Landcruiser handles better than the other part time 4wd's I owned or driven.

part time 80 serieses?

I don't see how you reckon that it is less likely to lose traction on slippery surfaces or taking off hard in a corner? You don't think that driving both front and rear gives better traction?

because the full timer has 3x open differentials, the drive will always go to the wheel with the least traction - with the drive distributed to all four wheels, this doubles your chances of losing all drive on wet grass, ice, mud/clay etc, without locking in the centre diff. ok so it's just a push button away, but sometimes it happens that once you're stuck, you're stuck.

coming hard out of a corner, the inside front wheel lifts, and because it has the least traction, all the drive goes there. especially in the wet, it can be dangerous - you point the front wheels, hit the go button, and stand still while the inside front wheel spins.

so then what is better, a poverty pack transfer or the part time kit to install in an 80?

dumbdunce wrote:

Emo wrote:
I disagee that it handles worse on the road. My Landcruiser handles better than the other part time 4wd's I owned or driven.

part time 80 serieses?

I don't see how you reckon that it is less likely to lose traction on slippery surfaces or taking off hard in a corner? You don't think that driving both front and rear gives better traction?

because the full timer has 3x open differentials, the drive will always go to the wheel with the least traction - with the drive distributed to all four wheels, this doubles your chances of losing all drive on wet grass, ice, mud/clay etc, without locking in the centre diff. ok so it's just a push button away, but sometimes it happens that once you're stuck, you're stuck.

coming hard out of a corner, the inside front wheel lifts, and because it has the least traction, all the drive goes there. especially in the wet, it can be dangerous - you point the front wheels, hit the go button, and stand still while the inside front wheel spins.

I've never driven a part time 80 series. Your'e right in the point that in situations of dubious traction you need to his the centre diff lock button. It's just become habit for me. I'm still at a loss to see how the two wheel drive conversion would give you better traction. Surely in the cases you listed where traction would only go to one wheel, it would regardless of the conversion.

Okay. Everyone has said that it is an advantage to have the part time 4WD but what is envolved with modifing the T-case? Is it just a case of fitting freewheeling hubs after mody the T-case?

sniper wrote:so then what is better, a poverty pack transfer or the part time kit to install in an 80?

buy a part time kit its not hard to fit anyone with half a brain can do it & the kit comes with free wheeling hubs.
If theres nothing wrong wiyh your transfer why replace it? I bet a new DX transfer and hubs would cost more than a part time kit.
My kit cost me $575. from Marks 4WDand only took me 2 & a half hours to fit and about 40 min to do the hubs.

Bluey74 wrote:Okay. Everyone has said that it is an advantage to have the part time 4WD but what is envolved with modifing the T-case? Is it just a case of fitting freewheeling hubs after mody the T-case?

yes and the hubs come with the kit if you buy if from Marks 4WD $575

ASIN hubs with the kit?

Better traction. B.S.

I challenge anyone here to a race on a gravel track who has a part time kit fitted.
Also on wet road with sharp corners.

When mine was part time, if I put my foot down into a low traction corner the wheels would spin and the arse would slide out.

Full time I can take sharp bends with my foot flat to the floor without
loosing traction.

The other problem I had was pulling the boat up the boat ramp.
More traction two wheel drive? Sorry but not in my experience.

Double Cardan all the Way

DUMBDUNCE
You have blown me away over the years with your wealth of knowledge and I take my hat off to you but I really do think you have this one wrong.

So you are saying that TOYOTA by producing a car with full time 4WD gave the people a vehicle with less traction.

What about all the other all whell drive cars out there.
Less traction too.
Burnsy

I heard the best thing about the full time transfer (with auto) is in drag racing other cars by starting out in low range and then shifting to high on the move.

The part time conversion on mine i done my self back 6 of 7 years ago when i done it the only kit available was the one fron ARB Northern they wanted $1300 to mod the transfer and required machining of the front output shaft, you could not buy it in kit form so thought to my self why. I had a transfer lying around so i pulled it down and designed and built my own requiring no mods to any other parts in the case. I had 4 made at the time and they cost me $500 each plus free wheeling hubs. I sold the others for some profit and that paid for mine.
I know Mark from Marks 4WD Adaptors very well, told him what i had done and gave him the drawings for my design and he supplyed them back to me much cheaper than i could get them made my self due to the small quantities i was having made. and taht the same as the kit he sells now
I have been doing conversion for years fitting high powered V8's into 80's and the Full Time 4WD were dangerous in the wet when accellerating hard the front wheel spin was bad and at times pull you off the road. As for gravel road driviing you just engadge 4WD and off you go. Full Time 4WD is just a gimmick for Australian conditions for everday use it best suited to countries with colder winters than what we have and thats what they were mainly developed for
The DX factory part time transfer requires lenghening the rear drive shaft if replacing the full time transfer

Wally

sniper wrote:ASIN hubs with the kit?

no there AVM and they come with spaces so they fit the early and late model 80s

[quote="
The DX factory part time transfer requires lenghening the rear drive shaft if replacing the full time transfer

Wally[/quote]


but you can use the auto tail shaft insted as it is a bit longer and will fit with a DX transfer

Simo63 wrote:

mud4b wrote:mine is great...

its definently the best thing ive done to it so far...(besides the fridge)

it steers fine once i fixed the castor from the lift.

Thanks guys ... Mud4By .. I know it's a big ask but since you are a local, do you mind if I came and had a quick drive of your truck around the block? C'mon maaaaate, I did you a good deal on that front locker (wish I had never sold it now )

Simo

not a prob man... as said you did look after me with the airlockers.. so im happy to help you out.

prolly after tomorrow is good as its running on smell only today...
its here every day dude so turn up anytime.

jimbo jones wrote:

sniper wrote:ASIN hubs with the kit?

no there AVM and they come with spaces so they fit the early and late model 80s

AVM are crappy

My mate blew up his AVM hub in his 80 on the beach

the aisin hubs are pretty good.

I have heard if you do a part time coversion with ABS it causes problems because of the speed sensors

mud4b wrote:

Simo63 wrote:

mud4b wrote:mine is great...

its definently the best thing ive done to it so far...(besides the fridge)

it steers fine once i fixed the castor from the lift.

Thanks guys ... Mud4By .. I know it's a big ask but since you are a local, do you mind if I came and had a quick drive of your truck around the block? C'mon maaaaate, I did you a good deal on that front locker (wish I had never sold it now )

Simo

not a prob man... as said you did look after me with the airlockers.. so im happy to help you out.

prolly after tomorrow is good as its running on smell only today...
its here every day dude so turn up anytime.

Thanks Dude .. I've just got back in town ... been to Emerald for a week so will try to drop in sometime next week or next Saturday?? How's that sound.

Cheers
Simo

dinos4x4 wrote:My mate blew up his AVM hub in his 80 on the beach

the aisin hubs are pretty good.

I have heard if you do a part time coversion with ABS it causes problems because of the speed sensors

That's interesting? Any idea why? The wheels should still be turning just not driven? Mine is an ABS one (unfortunately).

Simo

dumbdunce wrote:

Emo wrote:I prefer to have permanent all wheel drive.

for what reason(s)?

the part time conversion is quieter, has less backlash, handles better on the road (less understeer, better steering feedback, less tram-lining on cupped/excessively cambered roads, better brake response), allows higher suspension lift without driveline vibration, is less likely to lose traction on slightly slippery surfaces or when taking off hard in a corner, uses less fuel, needs less effort to steer, and if you do if by using a part time transfer case (which is probably cheaper than a conversion kit) gets rid of that pesky electrical shifter which can go bad at the most inopportune time.

Do it, Simo, you won't regret it. you may want to invest in a wheel alignment afterwards, the all wheel drive can mask some fromt axle alignment issues especially caster and toe problems.

Thanks Dumbdunce. Do you have any comments on the ABS thing that Dino mentioned?

Cheers
Simo

bruiser wrote:Better traction. B.S.

I challenge anyone here to a race on a gravel track who has a part time kit fitted.
Also on wet road with sharp corners.

When mine was part time, if I put my foot down into a low traction corner the wheels would spin and the arse would slide out.

Full time I can take sharp bends with my foot flat to the floor without
loosing traction.

The other problem I had was pulling the boat up the boat ramp.
More traction two wheel drive? Sorry but not in my experience.

Double Cardan all the Way

DUMBDUNCE
You have blown me away over the years with your wealth of knowledge and I take my hat off to you but I really do think you have this one wrong.

So you are saying that TOYOTA by producing a car with full time 4WD gave the people a vehicle with less traction.

What about all the other all whell drive cars out there.
Less traction too.
Burnsy

I have had issues in my 97 4.5 auto on dirt. Its still full time. I find that if I boot it into a corner, my front end gets significant torque steer, then breaks traction, and I get massive understeer.

On road, because of the rigid front end, if you hit an off camber corner quickly, the front end tends to pick a wheel up under acceleration, whereas the rear can flex effectively. This causes you to loose most of the drive through the front spinning wheel. I have the viscous centre diff, so I imagine it would be slightly better than the open centre diff.

In a straight line however, on the dirt, I think the full time would be a benefit for traction.

They have their good points and there bad points.

From driving rear wheel drive cars and front wheel drives, I'd prefer oversteer to understeer anyday of the week.

Simo63 wrote:

dinos4x4 wrote:My mate blew up his AVM hub in his 80 on the beach

the aisin hubs are pretty good.

I have heard if you do a part time coversion with ABS it causes problems because of the speed sensors

That's interesting? Any idea why? The wheels should still be turning just not driven? Mine is an ABS one (unfortunately).

Simo

The ABS senses the rotational speed on the CV joint via a toothed wheel press fitted on it. When locking hubs are fitted and left on the open setting, the CV doesn't turn and the ABS system thinks the front brakes are locked.

Dave

Dave

My previous cruiser was a DX 80. Compared to the GXL 80 I now have, I've found the handling and steering on road to be pretty much the same. Gravel roads i reckon the full time shits all over a part timer. Wet bitumen i find the full time understeers just a bit, but I have to give it to her to get that. Both were 1hz engines so I dont think i will ever have issues of breaking traction in a hurry