Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all,

I have been thinking of replacing my winch wire with sythnetic rope for safety and weight reasons.
I have searched the forum and read many topics on plasma, many going back to 2002. I am convinced it is the way to go and would like to know the latest info on where to source it.

And any lessons learnt from using synthetic now its been around for a while. I guess I am curious as to why people can still buy winches with steel if plasma if so much safer (in our over-protective society )

I noticed that the marine shops are selling Dyneema rope for around $7.00/m for 10mm 4869kg and $10.00 for 12mm 6750kg. I wander if this would be safe to use since Dyneema = Dynamica. Another worry would be getting the hooks spliced on correctly and some sort of protector sock.

Anyone have the latest info of sources/prices for synthetic? I would prefer to go local but if its still a lot more the USA then I will get it there...

thanks

The answer to why do winches still come with steel is because its 1/4 of the price of rope.

Last time i checked the price of rope i nearly went into cardiac aresst. So ive got no idea what the go is these days for price, plenty of shops are online here so be patient and they will all throw their offers in.

Hi,

I have been researching this subject a fair bit recently as well and discovered one thing just recently that may affect your purchase of rope from a marine shop. It seems that the construction of UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene) rope varies between that used for mooring boats and that used for winching. I am not sure what the difference is yet but all of the all mills that I have been speaking to say the same thing so it would be best to check.

Richard.

Hey Grazza,

I can supply Amsteel Blue winch rope in 8mm, 10mm, 11mm and 12mm.
This is the rope Cass jones used during this years OBC and he was very impressed with it.

If you require any info drop me a PM.

Daniels

I can vouch for the Am Steel Blue synthetic winch rope too. We use 11mm dia for comps and it works a treat!

hi,

we sell the dynamica, but as said it aint cheap, can be worth looking at spectra from your local boating shop, its covered dyneema and I used to by a kay or so at a time and sell on in bulk. Its basically covered in nylon type stuff the whole way and as such is good for domestic use ie not comping it as is is not as proce to rock rash etc and not as likly to get dirt and crap in the fibre but as it is covered, 8mm dyneema becomes 10mm rope, i still have 50m i use as recovery rope and winch extension

Adam

get it straight from the us its so much cheaper,
http://www.roadlessgear.com/page/RGL/PROD/R/GOROPE3-8

they sell the dyneema for $1.80 us a foot (3/8) and its only a small amount extra for the eye on the end and shipping is very cheap cause its so light.

Another option is these guys. http://www.4x4bits.co.nz/ProductDetails ... ductID=229

They can take the 12.5% GST off for sale to OZ plus the exchange rate on the Kiwi dollar helps to make it pretty reasonable.

rlaxton wrote:Hi,

IIt seems that the construction of UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene) rope varies between that used for mooring boats and that used for winching.
Richard.

I've never seen UHMWPE used for mooring boats. It is absolutely unsuitable for this task due to the lack of stretch, mooring lines are much better when they have some "give" as it helps to avoid damage to the vessle from shock loading.

UHMPE is used on boats (mainly racing yachts) for both running and standing rigging, where it is preferable to have no stretch at all. The loads applied to these lines is often greater than what a 4x4 winch could dream of. Running rigging on a yacht is the ropes used to hoist and hold up sails, and the control lines that are used in positioning the sails. Standing rigging is the ropes that are used to hold up the mast(s), and theonly movement they gain is when a mast is "tuned". Traditionally wire rope was used for standing rigging, and for the halyards, or the hoisting ropes for sails, but on modern racing yachts, wire rope has given way to the likes of dyneema and spectra, due to a massive weight saving. When a sail is hoisted, it is winched into place and then tensioned with a winch (either electric or hand) that puts immense tension on the rope, but even more is applied once the sail starts to fill with wind.

Those applications sound rather similar to the stresses faced by a 4x4 winch ehhhh? I would certainly use the cheaper (because it's not marketed for 4x4's) marine ropes as in all likelyhood they have come off the same spool at the factory. Due to the chemical compositions of these ropes being patented (mainly by DuPont), their are very few manufacturers of high tech ropes in the world. MSDS and load bearing specifications are available at all good marine chandleries, and a marine rigger who works with synthetics would be able to splice (that is his job after all!!) a hook/eye onto the rope for a modest sum.

Cheers, Dean

Tas_Dean wrote:

rlaxton wrote:Hi,

IIt seems that the construction of UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene) rope varies between that used for mooring boats and that used for winching.
Richard.

I've never seen UHMWPE used for mooring boats. It is absolutely unsuitable for this task due to the lack of stretch, mooring lines are much better when they have some "give" as it helps to avoid damage to the vessle from shock loading.

UHMPE is used on boats (mainly racing yachts) for both running and standing rigging, where it is preferable to have no stretch at all. The loads applied to these lines is often greater than what a 4x4 winch could dream of. Running rigging on a yacht is the ropes used to hoist and hold up sails, and the control lines that are used in positioning the sails. Standing rigging is the ropes that are used to hold up the mast(s), and theonly movement they gain is when a mast is "tuned". Traditionally wire rope was used for standing rigging, and for the halyards, or the hoisting ropes for sails, but on modern racing yachts, wire rope has given way to the likes of dyneema and spectra, due to a massive weight saving. When a sail is hoisted, it is winched into place and then tensioned with a winch (either electric or hand) that puts immense tension on the rope, but even more is applied once the sail starts to fill with wind.

Those applications sound rather similar to the stresses faced by a 4x4 winch ehhhh? I would certainly use the cheaper (because it's not marketed for 4x4's) marine ropes as in all likelyhood they have come off the same spool at the factory. Due to the chemical compositions of these ropes being patented (mainly by DuPont), their are very few manufacturers of high tech ropes in the world. MSDS and load bearing specifications are available at all good marine chandleries, and a marine rigger who works with synthetics would be able to splice (that is his job after all!!) a hook/eye onto the rope for a modest sum.

Cheers, Dean

Interesting stuff Dean. I wander how long these ropes last in salt conditions, with high strain for long periods. I guess being wet does not matter too much.

grazza wrote:

Interesting stuff Dean. I wander how long these ropes last in salt conditions, with high strain for long periods. I guess being wet does not matter too much.

Water in itself is not an issue to these ropes. Salt water, on the other hand, is about as harsh an environment as it can get, as salt water dries and leaves very abrasive salt crystals in the fibres.

How long they last depends on how you look after them. If you wash the rope (just a good hosing) regularly, and end-for-end the rope occasionally, they will last for quite a while. The braided sheath on the marine ropes provides a degree of abrasion resistance, but it's major benefit is in UV protection. A marine rigger will be able to provide some abrasion sleeves also.
Marine riggers are certified, and work to national standards rulings. They can certainly advise whether their ropes are fit for the purpose (as opposed to a salesman).

Cheers, Dean

http://www.atsnetsropes.com.au/rope/supermax.html

Seems the trawler guys may use UHMWPE for winching nets in.

Yeah. When were trawling in Tassie we were among the first to import Dyneema from Iceland. Great stuff it holds up heaps better than wire in the terrible conditions with the benefits of extra strength . Cheers

I'm in the marine industry and proficient in rope splicing. I will be looking into prices but there are many ropes that are better than spectra or dyneema. The ropes that can be purchased from your "marine shop" vary in quality and i would stay well away from. They generally are imported under a certain name and not what they actually are.

I will be looking into prices for a varity of ropes and will also look at pricing for splicing.