Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted in another thread, but wanting to know if anyone here is using it, or has used it and what sort of test results they got?

Theres an interesting thread on EOz about AMSOIL lasting 30,000klms using bypass filters. This oil was tested regularly and roachies GU weighs in at ~4 ton + Trailer!

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/View.asp?ForumQID=34315

I've just changed my 12 month old Amsoil 15W40 for a load of 5W30. The oil was put-in in May last year. I have changed the filters (normal and the big mutha BY-PASS) once during that time. I was getting regular oil analysis done by Castrol Laboratory in Sydeney ("and the winner is........Sydeney"....hahahaha) and right up to the last one I had done @ 30,000klm a couple of months ago, the oil was still in "perfect" condition. I probably could have gone another 12 months, but I erred on the side of caution and changed it anyway.

bogged wrote: This oil was tested regularly

The only sort of problem I have with this. What is in the oil that can not be picked up by tests?

I've been using Amsoil for near thirty years now.

Top shit that!!

Testing will pick up virtually anything.

eg trace of different metals show wear of bearings/ rings/ cam etc

traces of glycol for head gasket/water leaks etc

list goes on


In one car, I ran the engine oil for about five years, just kept changing the filters. I then drained that oil, and used it in my ute for a couple more.

In all vehicles I used it in I consistently got 2-4 MPG better

I use amsoil 15w40 diesel and marine oil in my td paj. i run it for 15,000km with a filter change half way. have had two lots specrometric(??) tested and all came back with a perfect bill of health. total base number on both occasions had not reduced at all. i also run amsoil in the diffs and gearbox's.
if anybody knows how to post pdf files i can post up the results.
i would highly recomend it.
cookie monster

So you dont need a bypass filter system to go with it?

cookie monster wrote:I use amsoil 15w40 diesel and marine oil in my td paj. i run it for 15,000km with a filter change half way. have had two lots specrometric(??) tested and all came back with a perfect bill of health. total base number on both occasions had not reduced at all. i also run amsoil in the diffs and gearbox's.
if anybody knows how to post pdf files i can post up the results.
i would highly recomend it.
cookie monster

So no problems with soot/carbon contamination from the diesel ?

You don't need the bypass filter system, that just makes the whole setup more effective, as the oil does not actually break down, just gets full of crud.

You could still run the oil in your engine, and change it at 25 thousand kms, and still be better off as you'd save easily those dollars in fuel, even without taking into account extended engine life.

love_mud wrote:So no problems with soot/carbon contamination from the diesel ?

apparently the oil still gets dirty - but not as bad, have a read of the E/oz thread



Eddy. I'll sus out the bypass thing to, could be worth it depending on outlay

used to rub Amsoil ATF in a C6 behind a pretty warm 351C, worked well.

Currently use Delvac 1 in a GU TD42T and go 20,000km without using a by-pass filter easily, (mainly highway towing horses) and the lab usually asks why I've even changed it them.

Amsoil 15W-40 has a good rep in the US, just compare it's price to Delvac 1, I'm currently paying $198/20 litres for Delvac 1.

page FNQCairns on the Nissan board, he's using by-pass filtration, and we diiscussed it on the recent K&N thread on this forum.

edit. this page, with a few links 1/2 way down http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... 5&start=60

so who stocks it and how much per litre is it?

bazooked wrote:so who stocks it and how much per litre is it?

Lubrication Management p/l
Bill Reid
127a Lonsdale St Dandenong

phone # 03 9794 0700

Hey Bogged there is nothing magical about Amsoil oil many other oils some 25% of the cost will also give the same result.

Amsoil is good oil although nothing better than the crop of other quality oils out there. It's still boutique to some degree so has added appeal on that level sometimes.

Choose any heavy duty diesel oil and it is a crap shoot as to which one will perform best in any one one engine at any one time.

It was the bypass filter that allowed that oil to go so far, it's a common occurrence worldwide with many different oils.
I plan on changing my oil every 15k without analysis, at 15k there is no reason my oil will not be in as good or even better condition than yours at under 1 or 2k without bypass assuming same model engine and driving techniques etc. Could even pose the argument bypassed oil would be better at 15k thna un-bypassed at 500km!!!

cheers fnq

fnqcairns wrote:Hey Bogged there is nothing magical about Amsoil oil many other oils some 25% of the cost will also give the same result.

Amsoil is good oil although nothing better than the crop of other quality oils out there. It's still boutique to some degree so has added appeal on that level sometimes.

Choose any heavy duty diesel oil and it is a crap shoot as to which one will perform best in any one one engine at any one time.

It was the bypass filter that allowed that oil to go so far, it's a common occurrence worldwide with many different oils.
I plan on changing my oil every 15k without analysis, at 15k there is no reason my oil will not be in as good or even better condition than yours at under 1 or 2k without bypass assuming same model engine and driving techniques etc. Could even pose the argument bypassed oil would be better at 15k thna un-bypassed at 500km!!!

cheers fnq

yea understand that, was more the point tryin to see IF it was legit any better than others...

Stan Alphabet got a price today from supplier for AMSOIL.

I contacted Peter from a1oils.com.au and got following prices:

1 x 5 litre ASL 5w30 Motor oil = $72.00
1 x 1 quart (946ml) ASL = $15.00
1 Engine flush = $11.00
Registered Post to Melbourne for above order = $12.20

so it truly is TeXAS TEA!

$144 for oil for TD42's per change...

and if it lasts 20,000, is it *THAT* much cheaper than Penrite/Shell/Castrol etc? I still think fresh oil more often would be better than old oil filtered and filtered...
?

I still think fresh oil more often would be better than old oil filtered and filtered...

Under certain circumstances you are right for example I have a coolant leak or gross fuel contamination into my oil at 7k but still run the oil till 15K. The bypass will look after these to some extent because it is celulose and has great absorbsion qualities. Although nothing beats dumping contaminated oil the hell away.


cheers fnq

fnqcairns wrote:

I still think fresh oil more often would be better than old oil filtered and filtered...

Under certain circumstances you are right for example I have a coolant leak or gross fuel contamination into my oil at 7k but still run the oil till 15K. The bypass will look after these to some extent because it is celulose and has great absorbsion qualities. Although nothing beats dumping contaminated oil the hell away.
cheers fnq

So what examples wouldnt you be better off with new over old?

Bogged what is your definition of new? and of old? With a bypass the oil stays next to new for many thousands of Ks, new oil without bypass stays next to new for only a few hundred. For instance I could take my bypassed oil at 5k and give it to you and you could run it to 5k your engine would never know the oil had just traveled 5k in another engine and neither would oil analysis (which tests all parameters of oil health)unless my engine had a coolant or some other serious problem.

cheers fnq

fnqcairns wrote:Bogged what is your definition of new? and of old?

New - fresh just put in
old - 10,000klms old.

With a bypass the oil stays next to new for many thousands of Ks, new oil without bypass stays next to new for only a few hundred.

sweet. this is the bit Im tryin to get my head around - thus the question on the new/old I've always worked that NEW oil is better than old thus the oil changes at 5k kms.

For instance I could take my bypassed oil at 5k and give it to you and you could run it to 5k your engine would never know the oil had just traveled 5k in another engine and neither would oil analysis (which tests all parameters of oil health)unless my engine had a coolant or some other serious problem.

cheers fnq

kewl.

Some have obviously missed one important point.
AMSOIL is a synthetic oil.
Therefore it (a) doesn't break down like mineral oils do over a period of time.
(b) friction on moving parts is considerably reduced.

Priced at $72 for 5 litres puts it close to the prices on Mobil 1, Shell Helix Ultra etc. (The shell was $67.50/5litres at the servo when I looked last night)
You cannot expect a $15 bottle of mineral based oil to do the same job as synthetics, and it is just silly to suggest that it does.

Does anyone have a brand name or something for the bypass filter set-up. It seems to me that if I run a bypass filter I will get more from my oil no-matter what oil I run.

Or did I miss something?

You cannot expect a $15 bottle of mineral based oil to do the same job as synthetics, and it is just silly to suggest that it does.

I think you are right although I can expect to pay $21.00 for 5L of heavy duty engine oil that effectively negates me paying any extra for a true synthetic because I don't drive a dedicated race car or run a high performance motorbike whose gearbox munches the same oil the crankshaft bearing use or have oil fired diesel injectors and I will not run the oil long enough to shear.

Even the mineral oil base stock never wears out, the additive packs and viscosity improver's do, synthetic wins on viscosity improver's only - in relevent terms to road/offroad driven and registed vehicles.

Possibly the only time a synthetic comes into it's own above a mineral hdeo or semi synth hdeo is just a split second before the engine goes bang!

By the way Amsoil is a better oil than Mobil 1 but Amsoil would have a hard time if compared to Mobil Delvac 1 which is a few % cheaper.

Does anyone have a brand name or something for the bypass filter set-up. It seems to me that if I run a bypass filter I will get more from my oil no-matter what oil I run.

Or did I miss something?

No you didn't miss anything, but within reason -leave the Kmart brand oil for use in your mother in laws car .
The downside is unless a person is just interested in this type of stuff or is going to keep the car for long enough to get a payback in dollar terms a bypass may not be worthwhile. If I sell my car I will pull the bypass for the next car but should see my money back before then because of the extended drains.
See the Ricks link above for some bypass brands.
Toilet paper (or TP like elements) are still the most cost effective and some still say most efficient bypass around.

cheers fnq

here's an example of used oil analysis on a couple of different oils and distances in a TD42T

The calcium count is a little low for a Jap engine, it should be over 3000, closer to 3500. Was there no acid index in the analysis ???

TBN = 12.9. @ 20,000km (which seems too high to me considering the TDS spec is 12)
TAN is an extra.

Calcium is only one EP additive that can be used, it just seems that the Japanese manufacturers insist on a high ammount of Ca as a crutch, regardless of how robust and balanced the rest of the AW/EP package is.
I think I'd trust Delvac 1's EP/AW package over any 3000+ppm CF spec oil. Delvac 1 is a PAO/ester blend and meets Global DHD 1 and Jaso DH 1 (Japanese) specs, as well as nearly all Euro and US engine manufacturer specs.

What you're going to see are new ashless antioxidants and AW/EP adds come into play now, such as alkylated diphenylamines (antioxidants), hindered phenols (antioxidants), and new AW adds such as boron esters, concentrated calcium and synthetic AW/EP adds (such as new esters). A newer type of zinc antioxidant/AW additive is ZDTC, or Zinc dialkyldithiocarbamate, which is similar to Moly DTC and Antimony DTC, and only varies as to the metallic element.

Taken from http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ult ... 026#000003
An article on Boron AW adds herehttp://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ult ... 005#000001
Article on EP additives here http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ult ... 022#000000

amsoil is owned by one of my friends
bill read in dandenong vic
he trades under the name of lubrication managemeht
and i can tell you from experiance it is one of the highest grade marine sinthetic oils made
you cant go wrong with this oil

ross

EXHAUSTFIX wrote:amsoil is owned by one of my friends
bill read in dandenong vic
he trades under the name of lubrication managemeht
and i can tell you from experiance it is one of the highest grade marine sinthetic oils made
you cant go wrong with this oil

ross

Thanks for the info everyone, think i'll give it a go, with a bypass filter on the new donk.

Hey Bogged good choice, if you are going to keep it a long time. One thing though and don't just take my advice as I am not totally sure.
You may want to leave the oil unbypassed for a fair few thousand Ks as the engine will need the chance to run in, in comparison the bypassed oil may not allow the wear that you need.

cheers fnq

fnqcairns wrote:Hey Bogged good choice, if you are going to keep it a long time. One thing though and don't just take my advice as I am not totally sure.
You may want to leave the oil unbypassed for a fair few thousand Ks as the engine will need the chance to run in, in comparison the bypassed oil may not allow the wear that you need.

cheers fnq

yea going to go see this dude myself about it when I get a spare hour... might try tomorrow arvo and ask questions myself about everything.

Thanks dude.